To start Off Im a complete noob when it comes to honda suspension but I know the basics.

Ive been planning on doing the REar ITR swaybar but After reading posts like "crashed my teg" looking at the reason for the crashes seems to be many people are upgrading the rear swaybar to ITR spec but leaving the front stock

What this is causing is the rear of the car to break loose and oversteer which is insanely hard to control in a FWD car.

The only reason Im posting this is because I was about to put on the ITR bar but its too dangerous.
My personal beleif is it shouldnt be touched unless the front is changed to keep the car SOmewhat "neutral" in handling.

Mods: feel free to edit delete or move this post,
BE CAREFULL WHEN MODIFYING YOUR CAR YOU CAN MAKE IT UNSAFE TO DRIVE IF YOU DONT KNOW WHAT YOUR DOING
Goodluck

 

It's because people don't know how to drive and try to go into a corner too fast and then lift off and brake, which shifts weight off the rear and throws it into instant oversteer. That's why those wrecks happen.

FYI the front swaybars on all GS-R's and ITR's are exactly the same, 24mm. Earlier LS's had 22mm in front but then later got the same 24mm bar up front, so it's not a matter of not upgrading the front bar.

However it's usually not the best idea to install an ITR rear swaybar if the rest of the suspension is bone stock. Not only can it get unbalanced, but the combination of soft springs/dampers and super stiff sway bar makes it alot easier for the bar to rip out of the subframe (yes even w/ a sway bar mounting kit).

If you have aftermarket suspension that is lower and stiffer than stock, then go ahead and install the ITR rear sway with confidence (just make sure you DO use a mount kit, or you'll most certainly tear the subframe).

And use your head when driving. Go out and participate in autocrosses to help you learn how the car handles in a safe environment where you won't crash the car (in most cases) if you do screw up.

 

Matter of opinion. Also it depends on the size of the stock bar. On (i believe all) GSR's they have the same size front bar as the ITR.

When I upgraded mine, the car was great and even with pushing that car hard, never had too much trouble. It did have a little oversteer, but I attribute that to the spring rates I had which were either equal or rear was stiffer (i forget )

EDIT: And yes Patrick made a point I forgot. Almost everyone who crashes is a result of lift throttle oversteer. If you have all that weight coming around, DO NOT lift off the throttle too much.

 

Yeah that's another thing, if you have a normal lowering spring kit which has a lower spring rate in back, then the handling should be fairly neutral with an ITR rear swaybar.

I used to have GC's w/ about 20% stiffer rates in back, along with the ITR rear sway and it would get pretty tail happy on some of those road-course esses.

 

yes the GSR sway is the same but Noobs like me and others with NON gsr front swaybars are doing a risky mod to upgrade the rear without changing the front.

Driver error = accidents agreed

 

98 LS should have the same front bar as GS-R's and ITR's, unless they changed it 99 maybe.

 

94-99 non vtec have 22mm, then 00-1 have 24mm.

 

"It's because people don't know how to drive and try to go into a corner too fast and then lift off and brake, which shifts weight off the rear and throws it into instant oversteer. That's why those wrecks happen."

I know how to drive and that is how i used to drift my crx and yes completely sideways without crashing. -"when in doubt throttle out"

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TheCheeseWedge &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">"It's because people don't know how to drive and try to go into a corner too fast and then lift off and brake , which shifts weight off the rear and throws it into instant oversteer. That's why those wrecks happen."

I know how to drive and that is how i used to drift my crx and yes completely sideways without crashing. -"when in doubt throttle out"</TD></TR></TABLE>

lift off a bit is fine, braking is different.

 

should I go ahead with my ITR swaybar install then?
Im a champion and I mean Champion RWD drifter but Im very new the the "Controlled Skidding" that FWD people call Drifting.

EDIT anyone wanna host Some Drift Vids In my 1980 Toyota?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TheCheeseWedge &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I know how to drive and that is how i used to drift my crx and yes completely sideways without crashing. -"when in doubt throttle out"</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TheCheeseWedge &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">"It's because people don't know how to drive and try to go into a corner too fast and then lift off and brake, which shifts weight off the rear and throws it into instant oversteer. That's why those wrecks happen."

I know how to drive and that is how i used to drift my crx and yes completely sideways without crashing. -"when in doubt throttle out"</TD></TR></TABLE>

okay, notice I said it happens with people who DON'T know how to drive, and like I said also try to brake to slow down through a corner because they went in too fast in the first place, i.e. they don't know the limits of the car. If you drift (which I've never done) then I'm sure you do know the limits of the car.

 

yes knowing the limits is good but We are human and car suspension needs to be setup to forgive a little bit, If the rear starts to slide there must be a chance to correct it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by low430 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">should I go ahead with my ITR swaybar install then?
Im a champion and I mean Champion RWD drifter but Im very new the the "Controlled Skidding" that FWD people call Drifting.

EDIT anyone wanna host Some Drift Vids In my 1980 Toyota?</TD></TR></TABLE>fwd

install it see how you like it, if you dont like it then take it off. its all personal preference. i prefer lots of oversteer making the car rotate really easily and compensate with the throttle. i started drifting with my mk3 supra so sideways wasnt anything new to me when i started in my crx

 

the best way to look at it i find is to do your thing, do whatever you want, just what you do to the back do to the front. if the front is too difficult or anything, leave the back alone too. this way you can kinda retain the original design of the vehicle. however maybe some people like the dramatic change in the way the car handles. who knows.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Dillon91Teg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the best way to look at it i find is to do your thing, do whatever you want, just what you do to the back do to the front. if the front is too difficult or anything, leave the back alone too. this way you can kinda retain the original design of the vehicle. however maybe some people like the dramatic change in the way the car handles. who knows.</TD></TR></TABLE>

non-ITR Integras were designed to understeer for safety purposes. Changing the back bar to ITR-spec will make is handle more like the ITR was designed, which is more neutral and even towards oversteer if you work it right.

 

As mentioned, it's a simple matter of people entering the corner too fast and then braking during the corner. The only time you should ever brake during a corner in a FWD is if you're using your left foot, and then only during a decreasing radius turn. It's fine to trail-brake into the corner as long as you really know what you're doing. Removing your foot from the gas pedal is dangerous enough and when you destabilize the car even more by hitting the brakes you're basically asking for a wreck.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Kendall &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">As mentioned, it's a simple matter of people entering the corner too fast and then braking during the corner. The only time you should ever brake during a corner in a FWD is if you're using your left foot, and then only during a decreasing radius turn. It's fine to trail-brake into the corner as long as you really know what you're doing. Removing your foot from the gas pedal is dangerous enough and when you destabilize the car even more by hitting the brakes you're basically asking for a wreck.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I cant hit the brakes period with my left foot its weird.
i heal-toe into a corner when im racing. When im drifting i like to have the vehical speed high and the rpms low it keeps the car loose through the corner. entering into a corner I tap the brake pedal hard for a second causing the cars front to stop suddenly and the cars momentum causes the rearend to rotate around sideways then downshift getting my rpms back up, making the car alot more rigid and to be in the motors powerband flooring the gas to compensate for the rear end wanting to rotate more around
if that makes any sense

 

i have a 00 LS with a 98 ITR spec (23mm) rear sway bar and have had no problems!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 00IntegrAllmotoR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i have a 00 LS with a 98 ITR spec (23mm) rear sway bar and have had no problems!</TD></TR></TABLE>

if the rest of you suspension is bone stock, then you're taking a risk

 

First off, please expalin to me how you are drifting in a FWD crx, because i honestly dont beleive it unless you post a vid.

Usually what makes our fwd cars oversteer is throttle snap oversteer caused by abruptly shifting the weight in a corner by letting off the throttle. Adding a thicker rear bar is all about how the car feels to you, and if it compliments your driving style on the track.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b18c1995 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">First off, please expalin to me how you are drifting in a FWD crx, because i honestly dont beleive it unless you post a vid.</TD></TR></TABLE>

haha here you go http://www.whiplashdvd.com/trailers/drifting.wmv

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TheCheeseWedge &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I cant hit the brakes period with my left foot its weird.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I cant left-foot brake either, generally my left foot is reserved for the clutch, so my foot still thinks its pushing the clutch pedal and pushes way to hard.

 

IF anything the ITR sway bar will help nutral things out...stock GS'R rear sway is 14mm and the fronds are like 25mm...type R's are 23mm reason why people expericne more oversteer is do to their driving ability and knowing their car...seriousely i bet most accidents happen within a month of the INSTALL reason being because the driver does not know how the car is going to act under extreme driving conditions because they don't take the time to learn and react to the way the car is going to handle. most people get too happy right after the install and try to go out and "TEST" out the oversteer and thats when stuff happens. On top of that our cars are FWD soo onces oversteer starts to grip the front wheels are going to want to slingshot the rear end around and thats what you have to learn to counter.

 

AGREED
I just think it should be common Info, I had no I idea untill I started researching.
People should at least know, Hey when you change major suspension or minor suspension it can cause teh car to Handle worse or better depending on the other mods and the stuff that you installed