Well it looks like I've scored. I finished taking apart the spare '95 head I picked up and brought it into my engine builder and got him to check the guides. Everything is in great shape. So basically here is what it looks like:

- '95 LS head $150US
- Crower 62403 Cams $240US
- Crower 68181 Valve springs $175US
- Chikara 4-2-1 Torque Step Header $125US going to be replaced with JDM ITR 4-1 header
- Adjustable cam gears (not bought yet) ($150US)
- Stage 2 TK MOTION head work (Milled to spec, race ported intake ports, street ported exhaust ports, polished exhaust ports & CC, 3 angle valve grind, backcut valves, ported intake manifold, new seals) $600US


So thats approximately $1500 US which should definately put me up to approx 150whp - 160whp after tuning and an SAFC and FPR. I can get a full B16A swap w/tranny & ecu for ~$950. My LS has 60k miles on it and the B16A swap might have the same or more, but I doubt less. OK now here's a real life situation. What would you pick in this B16A vs LS swap and give me your reasoning. I haven't started the headwork so I can always turn back! And before I hear it, no turbo, and no B18C's. All I want is a mid 14 to high 14 sec car. My car currently runs a 15.6.


[Modified by teg92, 6:33 PM 1/12/2002]

 

ttt

 

I'd go with the B16a cuz it has more power to start out with and will be able to put out more power when you upgrade also, but then again the B18b has more torque to push your teg. Hmm.. but I'd still go with the B16 simply cuz it comes with vtec.

 

SuperMan19: Fair argument, but the reason why I don't jump on the B16A is because I hear of soooooooo many people running the SAME times with a B16A if not slower in a DA chassis. I realize its heavier than civics, but there's no point discussing it. I've seen times anywhere from 14.9 to low 15's with I/H/E on a B16A and a lot more (particularly at my own track) running high 15's with intake, weight reduction etc...

I'm running a 15.6 with an I/E & testpipe on my LS. If I do the above, I strongly feel I will at least run high 14's if not mid 14's.

 

hey I am not 100% sure on this... but i read on a previous post awhile ago...
a ls motor... with 1) 9lb flywheel 2) si tranny 3) no cat
will get you a 14.7 quartermile...

Well that was what I got on a previous post awhile ago... so yah.. no need for turbo.. no need fro b16a and no b18c...

and that should be cheaper then 1500 i think.. i forgot...

 

I know the B16 tranny will help but I have a budget this year, and I am engine hungry. I think afterall my intial and current plans will remain, and next winter I will build a b20z block!

 

well if your going to build a b20z block.. no point in doing up your current one then... unless you got $$$ and you really wanna... do the tranny swap.. you can use it for you b20...

how much are those b16 trannies nowadays?

 

Well my LS head goes right on a b20z block. I meant shortblock anyway! As for b16a trannies, I need a cable one, and can't seem to find a good deal on one

 

Sounds sweet, mang...keep us posted

 

Id personally build on what you got. Ive run against my friends at the track in their Sis and Im only one tenth behind one and three tenths behind the other. The one that I am only one tenth behind we have equal mods, I always take em off the line but they catch me in the top end. Its all good, Im gonna have a little surprise for em next time we run at the track, it comes in the form of a bottle.

 

mid 14s are what im looking for too. i didnt see a port and polished tb and intake manifold on your list?

 

Oh well I forgot, he would port the IM definately, however I don't think I'll be touching the TB. First off, the work on TB's is very pricey especiallly compared to the minimal gains for FI. Also, I've seen breakdown of overbored stock TB's since there was not enough metal left to hold it together during tempurature changes etc...

 

Hey can you tell me where I can get Crower LS cams for US$240. Thx.

 

They are used for 3 months in original box with receipt. Fellow honda-tech member as well!

 

good job man!!!! keep faith in your NON-VTEC block man. tired of hearing vtec this and vtec that. do what you're doing man and when you DO beat all those NON-VTEC haters and pop the hood its gonna be worth it.

 

I definately think VTEC is overrated. LS is great to turbo. And I think a turbo beats VTEC anyday.

 

Only thing an LS is good for is TURBO!!!!!!!!!!!

Go turbo i you got the cash!

 

Get some titanium retainers while you're doing the cams and springs.
Adjustable cam gears are not needed. 2 other non-VTEC members and I found that setting at 0,0 is the optimum setting.
You should consider a Skunk2 IM. Even if you port the LS IM to the same port diameter, the runners are still shorter in the Skunk2. This will go well with your JDM DC 4-1 header.
Also, reprogram your ECU or your car will run very rich, smell gas all the time and mileage will be ****.


You should consider either a GSR/SI/ITR tranny then you'll see the potential of your engine. The LS tranny does suck.




[Modified by Project X, 1:25 PM 1/15/2002]

 

Well the whole project is on a budget. I spoke with Crower and they recommended the retainers in an all out head, and they have tested without and they say I'll be fine, especially below 8000rpm which I never plan to hit anyway. As for the cam gears, that does sound like a good thing to know, which means at least I can get started without adjustables. As for the tranny, it will come as soon as I find a deal on one, but I will only do it if I swap my LS 5th gear in the B16A tranny.

 

since when does a LS tranny suck? if it does then there must be a lot of dumb people for swapping to LS trannys. last time i checked bergenholtz is running his crx on a STOCK LS tranny. they can't suck too much!

 

Go with the LS, you will get good torque #'s from it. I have almost the same setup except for the cams and the cam gears which will be coming soon. The only thing that sucks about the LS is the tranny, you should get an ITR or GSR tranny it will help with your 1/4 times. With my setup I've stayed with a modded GSR, lost by half a car, SO GO FOR IT!!!!!

 

They suck if you start building a NA Non-VTEC. When you start putting high lobe/duration cams, you will suffer in the low end and gain in the mid/high end. You want to get into the powerband as soon as possible. Also, after you shift, you want to stay within the powerband. That's when a better gears tranny come with place. Note that this is more important if you're a track racer. You will need to shift constantly depending on the type of turns. I decided to go full out and got myself an ITR tranny mainly because of the LSD and also installed the 4.785 FD. The mileage and highway RPM suck, but then again, the car is for racing at the road courses only.