I am looking for an LSD for my 92 GSR engine (see sig) what are your guys thoughts on phantom grip LSD's? I found some for pretty cheap...

 

sorry for noob Question..what does LDS does?? i know they are fricking $$$$$

 

makes both tires spin at the same time LSD = limited slip differential

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turbotime &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">makes both tires spin at the same time LSD = limited slip differential</TD></TR></TABLE>

Not only that, it decreases the time to get off the hole shot plus helps in handling in courses off the apex too

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SpoonKillerB &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">sorry for noob Question..what does LDS does?? i know they are fricking $$$$$</TD></TR></TABLE>
prices of LSD's start at 899

 

phantom grip re-uses an OE part that other manufactures have of thier own (disadvantage) but i forgot the part name

 

to save 900 bones+ just weld the tranny so both wheels are always driven!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turbotime &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">makes both tires spin at the same time </TD></TR></TABLE>

wow i think you have some things to learn about lsd before you buy one.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bay_707 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

wow i think you have some things to learn about lsd before you buy one.</TD></TR></TABLE>

what it doesnt make them both spin at the same time? Please correct me if im wrong

 

What he means to say is that an LSD distributes the wheel torque preferentially to the wheel with more traction. Hence the wheels do not lose traction as easily.

Phantom grip

Get an ATB (Automatic Torque Bias) helical design (ITR if it will fit or Quaife $$$ otherwise).

 

i hear that the phantom grips sux.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turbotime &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

what it doesnt make them both spin at the same time? Please correct me if im wrong</TD></TR></TABLE>

no. a LSD "sends power from the wheel that slips to the wheel that grips" to use Subaru's words. When one wheel begins to slip, a percentage of the torque (depending on the ratio in the LSD) is sent to the other wheel. The fact that one wheel still gets traction and torque can help restore traction to the spinning wheel as it then gets less torque and starts moving, thus helping traction from the line. The wheels are not LOCKED together and thus will not spin together.

In a traditional open diff, the wheel that slips gets ALL the torque.

The phantom grip LSD is a LSD and it isn't. It's still an open diff, except with a piece shoved between the axles to force them to want to at close to the same speed. I believe it is a friction pad or something like it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turbotime &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

what it doesnt make them both spin at the same time? Please correct me if im wrong</TD></TR></TABLE>

actually it almost does the exact opposite. It takes the wheel that is spinning and take the power from that and gives it to the other wheel...so pretty much you would have close to none wheels "spinning" (aka slipping) basically what steve said i am just lazy.

 

It's a fake *** posi is what it is, and WITHOUT friction pads I might add. You can't turn chicken **** into chicken salad. It's still a one legger no matter what you do. It does help though, as long as you aren't making a lot of torque. As for how open, posi, and limited slips differentials work you guys aren't quite on the money. An open differential will distribute MOST of the torque to the drive wheel, which is the passenger side wheel. As for posi/limited it will decrease the load on the main weight baring wheel, letting it slip a little bit so it doesn't give you a lock up type affect on corners. Then when you put torque to it on a straight away then it is designed to properly distribute that to both wheels. Some work differently than others. And are designed to fully disengage when throttle is let off. Some only dissengage around corners. Others do different things.
But back to the phantom grip. It's fine on slightly modified vehicles but the racers don't call it phantom SLIP for nothing. All it is half of a positrac.
I could go on about how these things work but I don't want to. I get tired of explaining things to people. I do that all day at work.
It seems as though some of you may be confusing a rather primative limited slip differential with traction control which does distribute as said before. Power to the wheel that slips to the wheel that grips.

 

no, traction control does NOT transfer power from the wheel that slips. traction control doesn't actively change torque; it applies braking force to the wheel that slips. this can help the other wheel get more torque, because when braking the other wheel it is like it has traction as far as the diff is concerned. Traction control is not as good as a LSD because it bleeds power.

open diffs will apply torque to BOTH wheels in straights, and either wheel can slip and get all the torque. in open diffs, both axles are connected in the same way to the diff.

 

yeah i saw helical designed lsd please tell me what you think of these:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...33731


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...33731


I know the second aint for a b17 but im just trying to get a grip on what a qulity lsd is, cause these are mad cheap $$ wise

 

I have not heard anything about the OBX units.

Quaife is regarded among the best for helical units. the OEM Honda one is good, too.

Or, if you want a clutch-pack LSD (which does kind of lock the wheels together if they vary in speed too much), Kaaz is regarded among the best. The Kaaz would be best for drag racing, but the clutch-packs make noise and do wear (eventually).

 

Some of you guys need to read some LSD information before you post yours.

My advise is to ask an expert.

 

The following is an email exchange between me and Quaife America.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by My email to Quaife on Aug. 11, 2003 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I'm interested in installing a limited slip differential in my 1997 Integra GS-R. I have ruled out the clutch-pack designs due to noise and wear issues. This leaves the Honda Integra R LSD or the Quaife ATB differential. What are the differences between the Honda and the Quaife units (e.g. torque bias ratio)?

Thanks much,
Me
</TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Quaife Representative Ralph Hollack in Aug. 12, 2003 Email to me &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Thank you for your inquiry. Both are considered torque-biasing units and
function similarly, although the Quaife design is rumored to be stronger and
will not break when horsepower exceeds the 400-450 range, as the factory
diff is said to do. The Quaife diff also features a limited lifetime
warranty, even when used for competition. We do not disclose the
torque-bias ratio, as this is proprietary information.

Regards,

Ralph Hollack
</TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by My email to Quaife on Aug. 12, 2003 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Dear Mr. Hollack,

Thank you for your response. Unfortunately, the torque bias ratio is the selling point for which I am looking. My intended HP will top out at about 300, considering that my motor is normally aspirated. I want a car that can compete in SCCA events, not drag racing. The Type R LSD will cost me $240 delivered, while the Quaife unit will cost me $800 delivered. That's a significant cost difference to base merely on rumor. I'm not sure why the torque bias ratio is considered proprietary, considering that it can be easily back-calculated from the actual differential by measuring the helix angle, etc. I hold a Ph.D. in engineering and simply want to do the cost vs. benifit analysis, not compete with your company.

Regards,
Me
</TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Quaife Representative Ralph Hollack in Aug. 12, 2003 Email to me &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Thank you for your explanation, but we do not disclose this information.

Regards,

Ralph Hollack
</TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by My email to Quaife on Aug. 12, 2003 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Dear Mr. Hollack,

I must assume that reticence indicates inferiority. Your company should reconsider the policy. I have to go with the Honda unit based on cost.

Thanks,
Me
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Even the "experts" are elusive.


Modified by Dogginator at 9:24 PM 7/22/2004

 

i just bought one of these i hope its good

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nathan atwell &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Some of you guys need to read some LSD information before you post yours.

My advise is to ask an expert.</TD></TR></TABLE>

enlighten everyone then and point out where everyone is wrong.

 

Simply welding the diff. together is HELL on the tranny, because it doesn't allow them to ever spin at different speeds when turning, which is necessary. An LSD allows the wheels to spin at different speeds. So you can imagine the stress that this puts on the car.

Second, a phantom grip does almost the same thing as welding, so if you want to buy a phantom grip, then sure, weld it. They aren't as strong as welding either, because they are notorious for not working.

I have an ITR LSD, and it's great. Even better is a Quaife, because it's more agressive. Those are both helical, and I've heard that the clutch-type LSD's are the best, but they don't last forever, after a certain amount of mileage, depending on how you drive, it wouuld have to be replaced, and you will always need a special kind of transmission fluid with a clutch-type. A helical diff can use regular honda MTF.

You can definately tell the difference between a GS-R with and without an LSD during quick starts (racing, where there would be wheelspin), accelerating out of corners, and especially in the snow, it turned my car into a beast during the winter.

 

actually welding the diff puts all the stress on the tires. the welded area would be under a lot of torsional stress, but as far as the tranny is concerned, it's all the same. the tranny ends at the final drive...welding the diff doesn't transfer any additional force or vibration into the tranny's gears, although turning the diff may be a little harder.

i was under the assumption the phantom grip was a type of friction pad in that it tries to force the axles to spin at the same speed (although it has SOME play).

 

I guess you're right, it would be hell on the differential (welded material), but that's all in the transmission case is it not? Which would put stress on the case too, so it wouldn't be too good for the tranny, with the flexing and whatnot. Correct me if I'm wrong but for some reason that's why I thought it was bad for the transmission as well as the tires, and I would think the axles too.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by steven975 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

enlighten everyone then and point out where everyone is wrong.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I don't speak about things when I don't know everything there is to know about it. Unlike you, you don't even know how a Phantom Grip works... I was just saying that he should call up some manufacturers, Instead of making a decision on something someone, like you, said.

 

will an OEM type r lsd work on a 1g b16a trans?