I'm gonna drop my car.....i'm going with lowering springs...prolly 2''....what else do i have to buy? struts...shocks? i have a 98 gsr

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by IntegraGSR321 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm gonna drop my car.....i'm going with lowering springs...prolly 2''....what else do i have to buy? struts...shocks? i have a 98 gsr </TD></TR></TABLE>


ok, springs, new shocks/struts, either koni yellow's, tokico illumina's, or kyb agx's if your short on cash.. the way i listed them is from the most money to the least (left to right)

camber kit. 1.5 - 3.0 degree adjustable, either ingalls, skunk2, omni (not sure if they make one, but i thought i saw somewhere that they did) are some good brands to look at. and maybe some new bushings if your ones are all old and nasty. get polly bushings. good investment for the extra cash they cost.

and a good alignment after and you should be all set.

note: all 3 of the shock/struts i listed are adjustable and will work with a 2" drop, i have illumina's and i love them.. if you want a little bit more fine tuning on your suspension/ride height, go with yellow's, they have adjustable perches for where your springs set on. giving you i think like .25 or .5" of a lift/lower depending on where they are set to begin with.

also if you want some more freedom in ride height, which you might want cuz im lowered 2" and i scrape on almost everything, go with groundcontrol coilovers (eibach springs), skunk2 coilovers, tein basic/superstreet, omni power coilovers.. good choices also, sure might be a couple of more bucks each, but you'll get to personalize the drop yourself instead of taking what you bought. some food for thought.

hope this helps

 

is it really necessary to get a camber kit and an alignment? Ive heard a good allignment will defeat the purpose of the camber kit?

 

NO.....do you even know what camber is? you need a camber kit(ingalls is good) and a alignment wouldn't hurt. especialy if you want your tires to last... btw: you can use washers for the rear camber but will need a front camber kit.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tampa94lsteg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">NO.....do you even know what camber is? you need a camber kit(ingalls is good) and a alignment wouldn't hurt. especialy if you want your tires to last... btw: you can use washers for the rear camber but will need a front camber kit.</TD></TR></TABLE>

That's not a correct statement-entirely. You DO need an alignment, but you do not need a camber kit. For that much drop, you should see somewhere around -2* camber, which will improove cornering. It is not camber that wears out tires, it is toe. PatrickGSR94 is dropped over 3 inches, and has gone through two sets of tires in about 90,000 miles. He keeps his car aligned. again, you DO NOT NEED A CAMBER KIT.

 

YOU DONT NOT NEED A CAMBER KIT............if you want your wheels to look like this&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; / \ and you are CRAZY if you dont think camber wears down tires faster......its pretty much common sense...if the weight of the car is being directed to a less amount of surface area on the tires, it is going to wear them faster..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by marsbike &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

That's not a correct statement-entirely. You DO need an alignment, but you do not need a camber kit. For that much drop, you should see somewhere around -2* camber, which will improove cornering. It is not camber that wears out tires, it is toe. PatrickGSR94 is dropped over 3 inches, and has gone through two sets of tires in about 90,000 miles. He keeps his car aligned. again, you DO NOT NEED A CAMBER KIT.</TD></TR></TABLE>

ok..pictures will help me more easy to understand

 

I don't mean to jack this thread but I have a question about lowering. If I wanted to just put on springs only, what is the procedure? Does the LCA's have anything to do with the install?? The reason is cause I believe my bolts are frozen but I want to get my springs on.....any feedback would be great. Thanks!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by marsbike &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

That's not a correct statement-entirely. You DO need an alignment, but you do not need a camber kit. For that much drop, you should see somewhere around -2* camber, which will improove cornering. It is not camber that wears out tires, it is toe. PatrickGSR94 is dropped over 3 inches, and has gone through two sets of tires in about 90,000 miles. He keeps his car aligned. again, you DO NOT NEED A CAMBER KIT.</TD></TR></TABLE>


then why on my 2" drop, i couldnt get it into spec w/o a camber kit to adjust the tire's angle?

riddle me this..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by marsbike &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">...It is not camber that wears out tires, it is toe...</TD></TR></TABLE>

I think your confused.

/ - \ = Toe (Aerial View) / \ = Camber (Rear View)

\ - /

Camber (+/-) would be what tires look like from rear. Toe (in/out) would be an aerial view.

Camber causes uneaven wear on the inside or outside of tires.

Personally speeaking though, I have never had a camber kit on anything 2" or less and I have never had a problem. It's all up to you. But mos def, get an alignment and it's not a bad idea to get camber kit. If your going to do it, you might as well do it right.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PLANBmotorsports &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I think your confused.

/ - \ = Toe (Aerial View) / \ = Camber (Rear View)

\ - /

Camber (+/-) would be what tires look like from rear. Toe (in/out) would be an aerial view.

Camber causes uneaven wear on the inside or outside of tires.

Personally speeaking though, I have never had a camber kit on anything 2" or less and I have never had a problem. It's all up to you. But mos def, get an alignment and it's not a bad idea to get camber kit. If your going to do it, you might as well do it right. </TD></TR></TABLE>


on my car, i got the 1.5 max degree camber kit on accident but had to install it so i didnt have as bad of camber. so i installed it and my tires are with in spec (the range they give you for +/- camber from stock) but my tires are still tilted inward some.

my uncle's shop did the alignment.. washers for the rear came in the kit, and these key hole lookin things went in the front, not sure if the exact name of them, kit's by PROGRESS.

so does that mean my 2" drop which is probably 2.25" now since it settled could be put into 0 spec or very close to it? if i take it to another shop? cuz they used the old light shining around the 4 corners instead of the laser measurement like the newer more current ones.. no computer to operate this machine just all manual work. (old school shop)

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tampa94lsteg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">NO.....do you even know what camber is? you need a camber kit(ingalls is good) and a alignment wouldn't hurt. especialy if you want your tires to last... btw: you can use washers for the rear camber but will need a front camber kit.</TD></TR></TABLE>

no

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tampa94lsteg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">YOU DONT NOT NEED A CAMBER KIT............if you want your wheels to look like this&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; / \ and you are CRAZY if you dont think camber wears down tires faster......its pretty much common sense...if the weight of the car is being directed to a less amount of surface area on the tires, it is going to wear them faster..</TD></TR></TABLE>

no

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PLANBmotorsports &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Camber causes uneaven wear on the inside or outside of tires.</TD></TR></TABLE>

not really, only a little bit

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ..::91TEG-G2::.. &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">then why on my 2" drop, i couldnt get it into spec w/o a camber kit to adjust the tire's angle?

riddle me this..</TD></TR></TABLE>

well duh, because Integras don't have provisions for adjusting camber.

But that doesn't mean that you will automatically have tires wearing out very fast just because you have negative camber.

When talking about alignment and tire wear, TOE-IN IS CRITICAL!!!!! Camber is not so critical if toe is kept in check. Now toe and camber that are both out-of-spec, yeah it's going to eat your tires real quick, and when you lower a Honda, both camber AND toe settings WILL be out-of-spec. Just keep in mind that the toe setting is most critical to tire life, not camber.

People around here need to stop spreading the myth: "ohhh I lowered my car and now have negative camber, ohhh heavens-t'betsy, I need to get the camber back to 0 to save my tires and have them last a long time"

WRONG!

Marsbike pretty much copied and pasted what I posted in another thread. My car has been lowered for almost 90,000 miles now. I have been running abour -2.5* camber in front and -2.0 in back all this time. My tires I had when I lowered the car lasted 25K miles after I lowered it. At that point the tires had 40K miles total on them and were worn out all the way across anyway. Next I put on some 205/50-15 ES100's, got 35K miles out of those. Then I put on some 195/50 ES100's, and only had those a short time before putting my 16's on with my current 205/45-16 Sumitomo HTR-Z II tires. I've got probably 10K miles on these already, and they're slightly tucking.

I have never had any sort of camber kit, although I may end up getting some really nice parts that will allow me to dial in my camber exactly, instead of just letting it be what it be's on each side (my camber is obviously not exactly the same side-to-side because with factory parts it never works out that way). I won't be doing some cheak@$$ "washer trick" in the back, I would be using some turnbuckle-style rear upper arms like the ones sold by SRR or Omni.

But yeah anyway, STOP saying that people NEED a camber kit just because they lower their cars.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ..::91TEG-G2::.. &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so does that mean my 2" drop which is probably 2.25" now since it settled could be put into 0 spec or very close to it? if i take it to another shop? cuz they used the old light shining around the 4 corners instead of the laser like the old ones.. no computer to operate this machine just all manual work. (old school shop)</TD></TR></TABLE>

You do NOT want straight up 0 camber, that's bad for handling. Between -1.5 to -2 is a good number for the front, and -1 to -1.5 in back.

If I ever do end up getting some adjustable arms, I will probably dial mine in to -2 in front and -1.5 in back.

 

ok, so now your confusing me, you just said that you dont need a camber kit to get your tires pretty close to spec, BUT that integras dont have a way of adjusting camber?

then how did YOU do it? cuz they couldnt do it on mine, i had to buy a kit.. that only offered me 1.5 degree adjustment at the time and that didnt even work for me, tires are still at a negative

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PatrickGSR94 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

You do NOT want straight up 0 camber, that's bad for handling. Between -1.5 to -2 is a good number for the front, and -1 to -1.5 in back.

If I ever do end up getting some adjustable arms, I will probably dial mine in to -2 in front and -1.5 in back.</TD></TR></TABLE>

ok, that makes more sense now.

i'll take some pics of my tires to show you the wear i had on them, my old 17's.. and i'll show you my tires i have on now and how much they're tilted in, and you tell me what you think. if its ok or not

 

No, I did not say your camber would be in spec. It won't be in the factory range of specs (which is like 0 to -0.5 on non-ITR's). What is critical is getting the toe setting in-spec. That is a simple matter of adjusting the front steering tie-rod ends, or the rear toe compensator arms.

As I said, I've been running -2.5* camber in front for almost 90K miles, and am only on my 3rd set of tires (well 4th set, but I still have the 3rd set on my stock wheels, those aren't worn out yet).

I probably won't be able to gather much from a pic... I need to see an alignment print-out showing what all the readings were.

 

word. I'll agree with patrick on this one as well. The Integra has no camber adjustments stock, but plenty of toe adjustment. I'm running 2.5* camber front and 3* camber back and just a touch of toe-in in the rear on my miata and it's not wearing out the tires at all. With my integra, I had it at 2* front and 1.75 in back and they wore wierd, but according to the printout, my toe was like |__\, so take this how you want.

 

Patrick is right, as usual. Toe is the most important determinant of tire wear, get an alignment, have toe set to zero, and note your camber numbers (should be around -2 with that much of a drop). Most people who are interested in racing, spirited driving, etc like 1-2 degrees of negative camber, it helps handling. If this is just a car for the street, you really don't need to adjust camber in order to handle well and make your tires last, a good alignment with toe in spec will do the job.

I had Neuspeed Race on stock shocks for 45,000 miles, toe was in spec, camber was off by more than -2, and my tires did not wear prematurely at all. My dad's 91 accord, stock height, toe not set to spec, wore through it's tires (down to the steel belts) within 25k miles. His tires looked like they had what most people think is 'camber wear', when it was actually caused by not getting an alignment and setting the toe to spec. The camber numbers were within spec.

 

WTF?! you just totally contradicted yourself dude. I have respect for you and you usually say the right things.....but when you quoted me and said "NO!" about camber NOT eating tires you then posted this-------&gt; "Now toe and camber that are both out-of-spec, yeah it's going to eat your tires real quick"--------WTF DUDE.....I was trying to tell the kid that it will eat his tires and you ******* tell me "NO!".....**** off!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tampa94lsteg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">WTF?! you just totally contradicted yourself dude. I have respect for you and you usually say the right things.....but when you quoted me and said "NO!" about camber NOT eating tires you then posted this-------&gt; "Now toe and camber that are both out-of-spec, yeah it's going to eat your tires real quick"--------WTF DUDE.....I was trying to tell the kid that it will eat his tires and you ******* tell me "NO!".....**** off! </TD></TR></TABLE>

Calm down sparky.

I'm with Patrick and Purple on this issue. You don't necessarily need a camber kit. I've been running with -2.0 camber for over 2 years and don't have any wear issues at all. The reason is that I have my car alligned every 6 months (Lifetime package) and make sure that the toe is set to 0.

 

sparky says.........

So I have a Q.....with H&R sports, I will be ok with no camber kit and a good allignment? that would save me some cash

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tampa94lsteg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">sparky says.........

So I have a Q.....with H&R sports, I will be ok with no camber kit and a good allignment? that would save me some cash </TD></TR></TABLE>

Sparky is correct

 

When Patrick talks, listen. It's that simple, the man knows his ****.

 

i understand, but no reason to BASH about something i was right about....

 

I'm not bashing anyone here. You kept asserting that he NEEDED a camber kit, which is simply not the case.

Let me clarify myself.

Yes negative camber will cause a LITTLE more wear on the inside edge, but it's usually not a big deal. By the time my last tires started to show a little steel belt in one small spot on one tire, the entire width of the tire tread had already worn down past the wear bars on all 4 tires, so it was time for new tires anyway.

Another thing I forgot to mention, make sure the THRUST ANGLE is EXACTLY zero, or as close to zero as the technician can possibly get it. You could have a total toe reading of zero in the back, but the tires could be like this /--/ or like this \--\ when looking from the top. This will not only cause very wierd tire wear (inside wear on one side, outside wear on the other side) but it will also cause your car to track down the road at an odd angle (think of drifting in a straight line, going straight with the rear end hanging out, that's a grossly exagerated example). With a thrust angle of zero, that means the tires are set the same on both sides with respect to the car's centerline. Toe like this: /--\ or \--/ or |--| would all have a thrust angle of zero, and will help the car track straight.

But of course ideally you want the last one: |--|


Modified by PatrickGSR94 at 10:12 AM 2/12/2005