<U>USDM B18c</U>
deck height 8.347
bore stroke 81.0 x 87.2 mm (3.19 x 3.43 in)
displacement 1797 cc (109.6 cid)

<U>USDM B18b</U>
deck height 8.347
bore/stroke 81x89mm
displacement 1834cc

the TINY difference in the crank makes for the 37cc of displacement difference, WHICH IS NOT THE REASON THE LS ENGINE HAS MORE TORQUE AND LESS HORSEPOWER

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nickgmiller04 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">hit that search button and search for "lsvtec" and "ls/vtec" and i guarantee you'll get at LEAST 600 results. </TD></TR></TABLE>

*********over 600 threads of stupid nonsense**********


best thread on this one but really long that you have to print out and read it

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=501372

here are some 411 sites

http://www.importbuilder.com
http://www.c-speedracing.com
http://www.theoldone.com

research is your best weapon....
and do yourself a favor dont take no shortcuts

 

you are right mr.beeks thanks for those web sites links, umm I guess an engine swap sounds better than ls vtec after all is easier to do and not too much crap to deal with. Sounds like most set ups on ls vtec will break! anyways a few won't but most will. For you guys that now have a ls/vtec and said that it has been reliable can you tell us what exactly you did and how, what parts you use etc... This will help us to do a better set up

THANKS!

 

quote: Originally posted by daNattyFatty

....but ls/vtec engines tend to put out more hp and torque than a
regular vtec engine. it makes for a good all motor set up

the LS bottom end has a lower rod ratio than the GSR or ITR bottom end.

as the rod ratio on a naturally aspirated (i.e. No Boost) engine becomes lower or shorter, low-mid rpm hauling power increases.

you see the peak torque shift to a lower and lower rpm, as the rod ratio drops. This is probably why Honda chose a shorter rod ratio with a higher displacement on the integras compared to the civics.

As you decrease displacement to 1.6L on a civic , peak torque , as an absolute value, becomes smaller and you have to rely upon higher rpms to generate horsepower, instead of depending on torque. So the civic gets a longer rod ratio because of where it's powerband will be located (in the higher rpms).

The 1.8L , with more displacement, makes more torque and has a lower "hauling" or "pulling" powerband. It gets a lower rod ratio.

Please be careful about making statements about the 1.8L LS VTEC peak torque compared to the 1.8L VTEC peak torque. You hear this statement that the 1.8L LS VTEC makes more torque (assuming the same cams , redline, header/ cat/exhaust, and static compression ratio in both engines). In most cases, unlike this myth of more torque in an LSVTEC, the B18C actually makes as much or more peak torque..BUT AT A HIGHER RPM: it's rod ratio is higher or longer than the LS VTEC's. The key here is: the VTEC engine with a better rod ratio can happily rev all day at a higher rpm than the LS VTEC over the years. You can push a stock B18C bottom end to 9000 rpm as long as the valvesprings are upgraded. You can't go to 9000 rpm on a stock LS block's rod ratio.

DONT EVEN POST IF YOU DONT KNOW WHAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT!!!!

 

well, the difference in torque you feel comes from the displacement and the cam cuts, as previously stated.

I want to talk about reliability-

the reason you hear horror stories about LS/Vtec engines is that alot of people slack off when they build them...

A Vtec head, and Vtec itself, by the nature of its design demands more oil than a typical, non vtec head/engine. In addition to this, the external oil line, which always needs to be filled, demands oil.

Very few people do anything about the oil delivery system when they build ls/vtecs. as there are no oil squirters on an LS engine, an upgraded oil pump goes a long way to maintaining reliabilty. I've heard of people adding more oil to an LS/vtec than is reccomended for the stock LS, but myself, I have not formed an opinion on adding extra oil, so I really can't say.

however, from the factory, an LS is supposed to take 4 qts of oil, and a GSR takes 4.25 qts- oem reccomended.

That has alot to do with people who spin bearings, now lets talk about people who blow headgaskets.

The dowel pins on a vtec head are larger in diamer than their non-vtec counterparts... and since people are lazy, as opposed to drilling out the block to accept the dowel pins, they just don't use any dowel pins, the head walks, and they blow a headgasket, and write a post on HT about how unreliable LS/vtec is.

OR

they are a little bit smarter, and decide to drill their block to accept the vtec dowel pins. The problem is that instead of using the correct, metric 14mm drill, they use an American 9/16" drill because its "close enough" well a 9/16" is actually *I believe* 14.35 mm. the hole is too big for the dowel pin, the head walks anyway because its not a tight fit, and they blow a headgasket, and the same uneducated post appears on HT.

and Lastly-
people reuse factory head bolts. Most people dont realize that the reason fr torque specs is that torquing that bolt to its specification results in the most amount of thread stretch and thereby the tightest "pull." when bolts are torqued a few times, they lose their stretch and the threads are no longer as strong, especially if they are torqued and ran a few times.

head studs, or new head bolts help prevent uneducated posts on HT... woops... I mean blown headgaskets.

Just my opinion, I'm open to hearing any mistakes I made.
-Mike


EDIT- I wanted to mention one more thing about the whole dispalcement torque thing- If you take a completely stock GSR motor, and you stick in an LS crank, LS rods and pistons and absolutely nothing else, you have an LS vtec with 1834cc of displacement.



Modified by AngelTeg at 9:53 PM 6/12/2004

 

bumps angelteg look's like you know your **** great explanation it helps a lot into understanding why engine keeps blowing I hope we all hear this one! Mike has some good point to take into consideration when building a ls/vtec. Any body wants to add anything else that will help to built a reliable motor?

 

Obviously nobody likes to read. The fact that an LS has a shorter rod means it has a longer crank. You just don't know anything about motors if you deny this.

I debate no longer. learn it, live it, love it.

Peace out!!!

 

Let me say this ONE LAST TIME. YOU DO NOT NEED OIL SQUIRTERS WHEN USING FORGED PISTONS. You should use forged pistons when doing a LS/VTEC setup if you want it to last anway... so no more talk about ******* oil squirters you fuckwads.

 

But dude, its obvious his vocabulary and grammar is lacking.

Wouldnt be a big surprise if he misspelled lsvtec or ls/vtec.

lol


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nickgmiller04 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">hit that search button and search for "lsvtec" and "ls/vtec" and i guarantee you'll get at LEAST 600 results.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

lol if your cars not making power over 8000... somethings wrong cause i make power till like 8500 andd tahts were my red line is at. but ls vtec is prety cool i have mine with stock internals

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by You_Get_Vapors &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Obviously nobody likes to read. The fact that an LS has a shorter rod means it has a longer crank. You just don't know anything about motors if you deny this.

I debate no longer. learn it, live it, love it.

Peace out!!!</TD></TR></TABLE>

MUST I REPEAT MYSELF

<U>USDM B18c</U>
deck height 8.347
bore stroke 81.0 x 87.2 mm (3.19 x 3.43 in)
displacement 1797 cc (109.6 cid)

<U>USDM B18b</U>
deck height 8.347
bore/stroke 81x89mm
displacement 1834cc

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by You_Get_Vapors &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Obviously nobody likes to read. The fact that an LS has a shorter rod means it has a longer crank. You just don't know anything about motors if you deny this.

I debate no longer. learn it, live it, love it.

Peace out!!!</TD></TR></TABLE>

The first time you said this, it really bothered me, but now I actually want to correct you.

Stop saying it has a longer crank... it has a long STROKE. that is what you are refferring to.

The rest of your information is more or less correct, but I had to say that... because a gsr and an LS crank are actually the same length (probably about 20 inches?) but its the stroke that increases the displacement.
-Mike

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dclsvtec &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">lol if your cars not making power over 8000... somethings wrong cause i make power till like 8500 andd tahts were my red line is at. but ls vtec is prety cool i have mine with stock internals </TD></TR></TABLE>

Simply because if you don't make power beyond 7200 (which usually is how high you can take an LS/Vtec setup to... reliably without changing valvetrain.. correct me if I'm wrong) Then WHY do it? .... Unless of course, your car makes power above 8,000rpms... then theres your reason. I wouldn't take my car over red line, ever.. Because I don't make power beyond 6500rpm.

 

I meant longer stroke bigger crank.
I thought about my phrasing of (longer crank) and knew someone would eventually say something.

 

like everyone said, if made correctly it will last just like any other regular motor. just don't skip steps and skimp out on parts.

they make dowel pins that accepts the ls block and vtec head together. i forgot but someone on here sells them. this makes a vtec head kind of a slap on instead of having to go through the trouble of drilling the pins.

 

With a longer stroke you will get more FLAT TORQUE. This is known by everyone in the racing world. The rod ratio on a gs-r is by far superior to that of an ls. This is why a gs-r has higher reving capabilities. That and less rotating mass. There are plenty of reasons a ls generates more flat torque then a gs-r. Head design, stroke, cam profile etc etc.
As far as oil squirters. I think it's a great idea. Not for lubrication purposes so much but for colling effects. It's really not needed when an engine is built properly. But it doesn't hurt.
These differences may be small and may not amount to much but they do affect the way an engine runs. I'm not going to explain why one is better than the other or the pros and cons of each. But these are just a couple facts that no one can argue.

 

my friend ls vtec revs up to 9,500 rpm with no block girdle
ls vtec

 

i built an lsvtec one of the fastest around with stock pistons,rods and rod bolts runs incredibly smooooth to 9000rpm dont take it there everyday.........

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 90integra05 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Simply because if you don't make power beyond...</TD></TR></TABLE>
....I'm not gonna even... Power, POWER!!!! WHY DO IF NO POWER... NO WORKIE.. My god...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by POWERINTEGRA &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ok guys I've been readind and doing some research here at H-T but I still don't get my answers..</TD></TR></TABLE> i cant figure out why they do it either?..if you want the longer stroke, just find an LS crank, and replace it in your GS-R motor

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Slow_Em1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> i cant figure out why they do it either?..if you want the longer stroke, just find an LS crank, and replace it in your GS-R motor</TD></TR></TABLE>

if you replace the crank in a gsr motor, you'll have to replace the rods as well. also sometimes the crank doesn't clear the area where the oil squirters are so you'll either have to trim that area or take the squirters out.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Sack Master &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">With a longer stroke you will get more FLAT TORQUE. This is known by everyone in the racing world. The rod ratio on a gs-r is by far superior to that of an ls. This is why a gs-r has higher reving capabilities. That and less rotating mass. There are plenty of reasons a ls generates more flat torque then a gs-r. Head design, stroke, cam profile etc etc.
As far as oil squirters. I think it's a great idea. Not for lubrication purposes so much but for colling effects. It's really not needed when an engine is built properly. But it doesn't hurt.
These differences may be small and may not amount to much but they do affect the way an engine runs. I'm not going to explain why one is better than the other or the pros and cons of each. But these are just a couple facts that no one can argue.</TD></TR></TABLE>


the LS motor does not create flat torque. it creates a "PEAKY" torque curve while the GSR/B16/ITR creates a flat torque curve.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by You_Get_Vapors &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Im just gonna end this right now........The LS HAS MORE TORQUE CAUSE IT HAS A BIGGER CRANK.............PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!</TD></TR></TABLE>

torque= force+ radius

the ls gets more torque from the slightly longer stroke.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 4doorhybrid &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i built an lsvtec one of the fastest around with stock pistons,rods and rod bolts runs incredibly smooooth to 9000rpm dont take it there everyday.........</TD></TR></TABLE>

if u went cheap on those extremely important parts, ur prolly running stock gsr cams too... in which case, ur just dumb... ill shift at 5k... lets race.

 

^---- Owned