Whats a recommended build for hitting up the twisties? N/A or FI? and what whp?

 

Ls-v with 200whp NA

 

Stock 600F4i

 

A smooth torque curve is nice. Sudden surges in the middle of a corner are never good. Driving skill is the most important part of the setup.

 

N/A? What whp should I be looking at

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by petwhookie &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">N/A? What whp should I be looking at</TD></TR></TABLE>

We are car enthusiasts: more is better.

 

There is no optimal engine or suspension setup for any one purpose. There are millions of variables to take into account, such as: driver skill, budget, goals, daily driver vs weekend warrior, quality of roads, how much comfort you want at the same time, whether you're concerned with MPG or longevity, etc etc.

I say don't start dumping money into your car until you have a clear vision of what you want your car to be able to do and what you want its purpose to be. Also, get your personal driving skills up and learn the car like the back of your hand. Knowing what the car will do and how it will act under most circumstances is the most important step towards making your car go faster around the corners.

Also, why are you building your engine for twisties? When I had my B18b in my Integra sedan, I was able to cleanly run away from a stock S2000 in the twisties...and we all know that the S2000 has shorter gearing, an LSD, and almost 100 more hp. If you're looking to clean up in the corners, read around and search through the Suspension Forum. Look at what setups people have and what they use their cars for, look around at different pieces and see what they do, and make a decision as to what you would want out of your car and which parts you should buy to achieve that goal.

Good luck, and if you have more specific questions, ask away.

 

Power wise, I'd say you can't go wrong with a nice supercharger. They are often overlooked but can provide you with a much better power curve for road racing.

 

- JDM K20 type-R swap (engine and tranny)
- Engine and transmission internals rebuilt with lightweight forged parts
- Bore enlargement, stroke reduction (only a few mm each)
- All engine, transmission, and wheel bearings blueprinted and microfinished
- Engine rotating assembly re-toleranced for 20wt oil
- Dry sump conversion, electric oil pump, oil cooler
- Fuchs Titan GT-1 0w-20 or Red Line 5w-20 oil
- Alternator-only underdrive pulley
- Custom rebuilt alternator: blueprinted and balanced, with microfinished bearings
- Engine rotating assembly, including flywheel, pressure plate, and crank pulley, balanced together for 20,000 rpm operation
- Individual throttle bodies with phenolic gaskets
- Ported and polished head
- Valvetrain build: cams, VTEC delete, lightweight valves, valve springs, retainers, etc.
- Equal-length racing header and full 2.5" exhaust, all thin-wall titanium with ceramic coating
- Half-core radiator
- Custom intake air duct drawing air from just behind the grille
- Racing fuel rail, injectors, and spark plugs
- Custom tune on a Haltech ECU (or similar), ~11,000 rpm redline
(You could probably break 270 whp with a setup like this)

- Quaife ATB
- Lightweight flywheel
- Twin-disc clutch
- Transmission internals and clutch disc assembly balanced for 20,000 rpm (at input shaft) operation
- Custom Raxles racing axles with the REALLY high-end Red Line grease they use for special projects

- Moton 4-way adjustable dampers
- Hypercoils springs (custom rates, you'll have to pick these through trial and error)
- Adjustable front sway bars (probably in the neighborhood of 20 mm front, 32 mm rear)
- Adjustable ball joints for roll center and bump steer correction

- All suspension and steering bushings replaced with aluminum or Delrin
- Lightweight control arms and suspension links
- Unibody prep: seam welding, drilling of chamfered holes in large sheet metal areas, chromoly reinforcement on load-bearing joints and structural areas, and 6-point roll cage (all needs to be coordinated to be effective)

- All body panels and roof in carbon fiber
- Trunk battery relocation
- Lightweight battery
- AC delete
- Power steering delete
- Airbag delete
- Rear seat delete
- Spare tire & jack delete
- Type R seats
(Keep the stereo and HVAC. They're nice.)

- SSR Type C wheels (or similar)
- 215/40/16 Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3 tires (or similar)

- Wilwood big brake kits with lightweight calipers and 2-piece rotors front and rear
- Stainless steel brake lines
- Motul RBF 600 (or similar) brake fluid

- Custom carbon fiber full underbody covering w/ rear diffuser
- Lancer Evo FQ400 door mirrors

- ALL lights inside and out, except headlights, replaced with LEDs
- HID headlights
- No fog lights


I'm sure I'm missing a thing or two but that ought to be a pretty good setup.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by d00df00d &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">- JDM K20 type-R swap (engine and tranny)
- Engine and transmission internals rebuilt with lightweight forged parts
- Bore enlargement, stroke reduction (only a few mm each)
- All engine, transmission, and wheel bearings blueprinted and microfinished
- Engine rotating assembly re-toleranced for 20wt oil
- Dry sump conversion, electric oil pump, oil cooler
- Fuchs Titan GT-1 0w-20 or Red Line 5w-20 oil
- Alternator-only underdrive pulley
- Custom rebuilt alternator: blueprinted and balanced, with microfinished bearings
- Engine rotating assembly, including flywheel, pressure plate, and crank pulley, balanced together for 20,000 rpm operation
- Individual throttle bodies with phenolic gaskets
- Ported and polished head
- Valvetrain build: cams, VTEC delete, lightweight valves, valve springs, retainers, etc.
- Equal-length racing header and full 2.5" exhaust, all thin-wall titanium with ceramic coating
- Half-core radiator
- Custom intake air duct drawing air from just behind the grille
- Racing fuel rail, injectors, and spark plugs
- Custom tune on a Haltech ECU (or similar), ~11,000 rpm redline
(You could probably break 270 whp with a setup like this)

- Quaife ATB
- Lightweight flywheel
- Twin-disc clutch
- Transmission internals and clutch disc assembly balanced for 20,000 rpm (at input shaft) operation
- Custom Raxles racing axles with the REALLY high-end Red Line grease they use for special projects

- Moton 4-way adjustable dampers
- Hypercoils springs (custom rates, you'll have to pick these through trial and error)
- Adjustable front sway bars (probably in the neighborhood of 20 mm front, 32 mm rear)
- Adjustable ball joints for roll center and bump steer correction

- All suspension and steering bushings replaced with aluminum or Delrin
- Lightweight control arms and suspension links
- Unibody prep: seam welding, drilling of chamfered holes in large sheet metal areas, chromoly reinforcement on load-bearing joints and structural areas, and 6-point roll cage (all needs to be coordinated to be effective)

- All body panels and roof in carbon fiber
- Trunk battery relocation
- Lightweight battery
- AC delete
- Power steering delete
- Airbag delete
- Rear seat delete
- Spare tire & jack delete
- Type R seats
(Keep the stereo and HVAC. They're nice.)

- SSR Type C wheels (or similar)
- 215/40/16 Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3 tires (or similar)

- Wilwood big brake kits with lightweight calipers and 2-piece rotors front and rear
- Stainless steel brake lines
- Motul RBF 600 (or similar) brake fluid

- Custom carbon fiber full underbody covering w/ rear diffuser
- Lancer Evo FQ400 door mirrors

- ALL lights inside and out, except headlights, replaced with LEDs
- HID headlights
- No fog lights


I'm sure I'm missing a thing or two but that ought to be a pretty good setup.</TD></TR></TABLE>

LOL. Great build. You should take this shitty write up off the internet.

OP: DO NOT supercharge an LS. You will be dissapointed at your low numbers. Either go turbo or NA, but really spend your money on your suspension.

 

^^ care to elaborate as to why that's a shitty build? since you seem so confident in shooting it down so quickly

 

OP. do you want a race car or a street car. DECIDE THAT BEFORE YOU TOUCH IT AT ALL!!

Suspension setups are going to be much more important and fun. Although, the engine should never be overlooked. It depends on your skill. How much HP are you comfortable with? 200 more hp could end up making you slower if you cant drive it.

I like NA the best for cornering duties because of the high strung power band. Turbo cars make you have to dance on the pedals like a ballerina lol. I'm not saying that I couldn't embarass barishnakoff, but it's just easier to smash the gas pedal and have a perfect corner exit every time.

Plus, I find it easier to adjust the attitude of the car if everything happens at a certain time and pace.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by KaBlookie &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> When I had my B18b in my Integra sedan, I was able to cleanly run away from a stock S2000 in the twisties....</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm offended . My stock S2000 with shittier than stock stealership tires was able to out lap EVOs and vettes after i only owned the car for 8 days.

It's not stock anymore...but pretty close. I challenge you to a pants off dance off...err....that came out wrong....


Seriously, though an S2000 takes a very attentive and somewhat skilled and adventurous driver to make it go fast. RWD experience helps, too. Usually, people get scared and drive too slow...or they drive too fast and end up spinning out...which makes them scared later. lol the car is probably about 90% countersteer.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AWD Terror &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

LOL. Great build. You should take this shitty write up off the internet.

OP: DO NOT supercharge an LS. You will be dissapointed at your low numbers. Either go turbo or NA, but really spend your money on your suspension.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Seriously. That is stupid. "lancer evo fq-400 door mirrors"

 

hahaha that build above would cost $30-$50 grand probably. Don't even bother with stereo or heater, because it SURE as hell wouldn't be a street car.

 

I think you guys missed the point. That was just a shotgun blast of speed mods to poke fun at how general and vague the original question was.

I think we're all agreed here: It's almost meaningless to ask for a "recommended build for hitting up the twisties" because, with all the variables involved, there are so many possibilities that you'll never get a real answer.

I'd contribute to finding a real answer but you guys seem to have that covered fairly well until the OP steps back in with more info on his/her preferences, budget, level of experience, etc.

P.S. I strongly disagree with Dogginator's response about more power being better because "we're car enthusiasts". Any real enthusiast knows that you need exactly as much power as your car can put down and you as a driver can handle. No more, no less.

 

Oh ok, reading through that I was just like oh god, half this stuff is unnecessary. I mean, Moton suspension? That would be more trouble setting up than it's worth. There were threads about Motons in both the ITR and the roadracing forums not too long ago. Basically if you don't have a pro setting them up, they're just as good as a cheap set up.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by d00df00d &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think you guys missed the point. That was just a shotgun blast of speed mods to poke fun at how general and vague the original question was.</TD></TR></TABLE>

No we didn't. Sarcasm conveys poorly in written form.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by d00df00d &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">P.S. I strongly disagree with Dogginator's response about more power being better because "we're car enthusiasts". Any real enthusiast knows that you need exactly as much power as your car can put down and you as a driver can handle. No more, no less.</TD></TR></TABLE>

My right foot can accurately meter the amount of power that the car can handle for conditions. I prefer to have excess. Learn to drive.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Dogginator &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">My right foot can accurately meter the amount of power that the car can handle for conditions. I prefer to have excess. Learn to drive.</TD></TR></TABLE>
No need to get defensive. I wasn't saying you should be able to go WOT at any time without consequence. If your right foot can meter the power, that means the amount of power you have falls within the range that you can handle.

No matter how good you are, obviously there is a point at which you would have so much power that the delivery would be too vicious to control reasonably. Or, if your skill far exceeds the car's ability to make use of the power, there is a point at which any additional power would be superfluous. In either case, by definition, you would have too much power. That's all I'm saying.

 

Honestly you don't need a great motor, just a reliable one. I'd pick a good tuned suspension over a tuned motor any day. The people I know have extensive work on their brakes, suspension, and chassis and then only move onto motorwork. I agree, I've been testing and tuning my suspension for a while now, and still have a fairly stock motor (only I/H/E). Still don't agree, look at my avatar, guess what car I drive, an xB, and the onl;y thing I do is the twisties, and eventually the tracks. No I'm not on crack, my care is proof that all you need in the twisties is a good suspension.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NCP31KAI &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Honestly you don't need a great motor, just a reliable one. I'd pick a good tuned suspension over a tuned motor any day. The people I know have extensive work on their brakes, suspension, and chassis and then only move onto motorwork. I agree, I've been testing and tuning my suspension for a while now, and still have a fairly stock motor (only I/H/E). Still don't agree, look at my avatar, guess what car I drive, an xB, and the onl;y thing I do is the twisties, and eventually the tracks. No I'm not on crack, my care is proof that all you need in the twisties is a good suspension. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I drive hondas. They have motors that are not only great, but reliable as well. And they're the greenest car company on the planet.

Take that, Toyota jerk (jk)

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by d00df00d &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
No need to get defensive. I wasn't saying you should be able to go WOT at any time without consequence. If your right foot can meter the power, that means the amount of power you have falls within the range that you can handle.

No matter how good you are, obviously there is a point at which you would have so much power that the delivery would be too vicious to control reasonably. Or, if your skill far exceeds the car's ability to make use of the power, there is a point at which any additional power would be superfluous. In either case, by definition, you would have too much power. That's all I'm saying.</TD></TR></TABLE>

So what we were just born knowing how much HP we can handle? How can you gain expierence or get any better at driving if you just stay at your limit? If you dont push yourself and go beyond "what you can handle" then your going no where.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by d00df00d &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">- JDM K20 type-R swap (engine and tranny)
- Engine and transmission internals rebuilt with lightweight forged parts
- Bore enlargement, stroke reduction (only a few mm each)
- All engine, transmission, and wheel bearings blueprinted and microfinished
- Engine rotating assembly re-toleranced for 20wt oil
- Dry sump conversion, electric oil pump, oil cooler
- Fuchs Titan GT-1 0w-20 or Red Line 5w-20 oil
- Alternator-only underdrive pulley
- Custom rebuilt alternator: blueprinted and balanced, with microfinished bearings
- Engine rotating assembly, including flywheel, pressure plate, and crank pulley, balanced together for 20,000 rpm operation
- Individual throttle bodies with phenolic gaskets
- Ported and polished head
- Valvetrain build: cams, VTEC delete, lightweight valves, valve springs, retainers, etc.
- Equal-length racing header and full 2.5" exhaust, all thin-wall titanium with ceramic coating
- Half-core radiator
- Custom intake air duct drawing air from just behind the grille
- Racing fuel rail, injectors, and spark plugs
- Custom tune on a Haltech ECU (or similar), ~11,000 rpm redline
(You could probably break 270 whp with a setup like this)

- Quaife ATB
- Lightweight flywheel
- Twin-disc clutch
- Transmission internals and clutch disc assembly balanced for 20,000 rpm (at input shaft) operation
- Custom Raxles racing axles with the REALLY high-end Red Line grease they use for special projects

- Moton 4-way adjustable dampers
- Hypercoils springs (custom rates, you'll have to pick these through trial and error)
- Adjustable front sway bars (probably in the neighborhood of 20 mm front, 32 mm rear)
- Adjustable ball joints for roll center and bump steer correction

- All suspension and steering bushings replaced with aluminum or Delrin
- Lightweight control arms and suspension links
- Unibody prep: seam welding, drilling of chamfered holes in large sheet metal areas, chromoly reinforcement on load-bearing joints and structural areas, and 6-point roll cage (all needs to be coordinated to be effective)

- All body panels and roof in carbon fiber
- Trunk battery relocation
- Lightweight battery
- AC delete
- Power steering delete
- Airbag delete
- Rear seat delete
- Spare tire & jack delete
- Type R seats
(Keep the stereo and HVAC. They're nice.)

- Rota wheels (or similar)
- 215/40/16 Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3 tires (or similar)

- Wilwood big brake kits with lightweight calipers and 2-piece rotors front and rear
- Stainless steel brake lines
- Motul RBF 600 (or similar) brake fluid

- Custom carbon fiber full underbody covering w/ rear diffuser
- Lancer Evo FQ400 door mirrors

- ALL lights inside and out, except headlights, replaced with LEDs
- HID headlights
- No fog lights


I'm sure I'm missing a thing or two but that ought to be a pretty good setup.</TD></TR></TABLE>
dude you totally forgot to mention the racing stickers(more HP), big aluminum spoiler(downforce), and underglow neon(so people can see that thing looking like a space ship when driving past hitting mach1.) oh and cant forget the hood scoop to keep the engine cool.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by St Jimmy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

So what we were just born knowing how much HP we can handle? How can you gain expierence or get any better at driving if you just stay at your limit? If you dont push yourself and go beyond "what you can handle" then your going no where.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Going beyond what you can handle will put you into the pea gravel or a tree. You have to be safe while exploring your limits. Spinning out on a safe portion of a track is not a big deal. Hitting a wall with your expensive car will suck. I think you just have to pick the time and place.

If you're ever around the midwesssssssst, you should hit up Gingerman race way. It's VERY fun and VERY safe. Nice and technical so you can explore. I'm sure there's "safe" tracks in other areas as well. Those are the best places to learn.

 

Thanks for all the replies, I'm guess I'm going to havta look more into it.

 

Dude just use whatever motor is already in your car. Make sure the transmission is up-to-par and concentrate on suspension for twisties. Rebuilding another motor on the side while your at it so that you can drop it in as soon as that one goes. And also, rebuild a transmission. That's what I'm doing. Once you've gotten some experience under your belt and feel the need to upgrade, then you'd atleast know what you want to upgrade about the car because you've completely feel'd it out already as it was.