These damn brakes have been nothing but problems for me since the beginning of the year. When I first bought them last May (in conjunction with a brand new OEM master cylinder), they seemed to cure all my braking issues. The pedal was rock solid and the performance reached a staggering new level...

Well, in January, I tore apart my suspension, installed some new solid rotors, put everything back together, and what do you know. The brakes feel like ****. I bled them countless times to no avail. After about a week of driving with the spongy pedal, they seemed to kind of cure themselves. The pedal felt better, but they weren't biting as I thought they should. They calipers would make an erie creaking noise when I got on the pedal. The brakes would not lock at any speed at any pedal pressure. It used to take only about .5" to lock upon initial installation...

I attributed this problem to sticking pistons. So, I bought new piston seals and this weekend, I tore both calipers apart, cleaned them super thorougly, dried and reassembled them. Now, they are nice and shiny, and all the pistons are working just fine. Now it gets even better.

I bled the front calipers by themselves initially, as I thought they would be the only ones with lots of air in them. Well, I first did a gravity bleed to fill them, then I had a friend hop in and did the pump and hold method (with a 2x4 block behind pedal initially). Pedal still sinks to the floor like there isn't even any fluid in the system.

Everything is full, there are no leaks and all parts are assembled to the letter.

I've bled them about 10 times now, even did the rears in a few cycles of bleeding. Anyone have any clue as to what is going on here? Could the master cylinder be out already? I really need my car to get to work tommorow, so any feedback would be great...

 

u sure the break pressure to ur master cylinder is connected and working fine? also check ur break lines for leaks.. and im sure you've already compleatly drained ur fluid and put in new break fluid. umm it could also be just a bad master cylinder.. was it rebuilt/refurbished or new? either/or.. just take it back and try to get a new one.. let them know what ur problem is and tell them to give u another on and install that, proceed with break bleeding and all the other stuff u gota do

if that doesnt work.. u got me beat then.

 

Master cylinder was a brand new unit fron the Honda dealership I worked at. It was installed by a tech there last April. I really don't think it could be **** already, but I'm out of ideas.

I initially replaced the fluid with ATE Superblue when I did the brake upgrade. Since then, I've bled the damn things enough times that I've gone through 2 whole liters of ATE in less than a year...

I'm stumped...

 

Just put in a new master cylinder not more than an hour ago. Bench bled it and bled each caliper. Absolutely no difference whatsoever.

 

anyone else? I really have no idea what to do here. Any input is greatly appreciated...

Again, after bleeding, the pedal still sinks damn near to the floor. It's super squishy and in no way exerts enough pressure to stop the car at any speed over 5 MPH.

 

Anyone? Come on, I need my car so I can stop bumming rides to work!

 

um.....this may sound really really stupid, but make sure that you fill up the resavuare(sp) after it sucks all the fluid in, so that you arent sucking in air......just thought i'd mention this in case you were missin one little detail ::shrugs::

if your pedal is going to the floor. eithor you have a ton of air in your lines or there is a leak somewhere....rule out one or the other and go from there.

btw, which brake kit is it?

 

I always keep the resevoir filled to the top when bleeding, but a good tip nonetheless.

I imagine it's just a pocket of air somewhere, but where, I have no ******* clue...

Heres the brake kit, BTW...

 

that's a cool picture Anyways, do you think there could be an air pocket in teh caliper? Did you tap them while bleeding the system?

 

I beat the **** out of them with a 2 foot long 2x4, took the calipers off the mounting ears and shook them around, then bled countless times.

Nothing...

Is there anyway the actuation assembly (pushrod?) of the master cylinder can fail? Feels like there might be problem between the pedal and MC...

 

honestly...still sounds like you aren't bleeding them enough.

start from furthest away from the MC and work your way around the car. maybe try a different color fluid (like ATE Superblue) so you know you're completely flushing the system.

An MC Brace would definately firm up the pedal feel, but it's not a cure to the problem (unless your firewall is flexed...doubtful).

 

ok.. heres a long shot but this might be th problem.. if u got bigger calipers.. in front and in rear.. maybe just in front.. u might needa bigger resivor for the master.. cuz check it.. if u have a 2/4 piston setup on them.. they'll take more fluid to circulate through the lines, and fill up the piston resivors to engage the brakes..

 

One of my buddies that just finished the UTI Ford program (whooptydoo) came over tonight to see what he could do.

We removed the MC again, bench bled it, reinstalled it, then bled it again. We noted that the mechanical pushrod worked just fine and had full travel.

Next, we bled the brakes per the Helms way numerous times. Nothing. Currently, I'm gravity bleeding everything to see what that does.

I don't see a bigger resevoir as being a factor. So little of the fluid actually moves that this wouldn't help at all. Its the size of the MC rather than the size of the resevoir that determines pedal feel.

 

I assume they aren't stock rubber break lines. If they are they could be swelling.

 

Front lines are stainless, rears are stock. With the amount of slop in the pedal, I doubt it's just the lines.

Is there any tricky places an air pocket would like to hang out at? Thats all I can think of at this point...

I'm ******* tired of this ****!!!!!!

 

we are talking about a integra with 4 wheel disk right?

 

your booster could be bad, just a thought.

 

Tapping the brake callipers also loosens air pockets. They will come out when you bleed them. You can also tap the lines while bleeding as well. Make sure you arent bleeding them with the pedel to the floor!

 

When you are bledding your breaks are you pressing the brake pedal to the floor?