So I bought a block guard.
06-01-2006, 10:40 PM
#51
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Re: (shortyz21)
The point of this conversation is that because your sleeves aren't cracking, doesn't mean that your blockguard is working.
These are two totally elusive things and one cannot be derived from the other.
for idiots.
These are two totally elusive things and one cannot be derived from the other.
for idiots.
06-10-2006, 12:27 PM
#52
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Re: (ccivic)
And my point is I'm running a NA LSVTEC- and people will probably start hating on that too. I put the block guard in, dropped it down 3/8" below the deck, and if it blows up, Ill get a CRV bottom end and stick a block guard in that too. 
06-10-2006, 04:58 PM
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Re: (. r e w s n a e h T)
Of course filler is preferred. Block guards are usually cheaper. I've been looking into this as a walk solution, as I'm building an lsvtec now, too. With the lsvtec, walk is reportedly a real issue at higher rpm's, so it's best to guard against that (filler preferred, block guard for the budget). Same build also has high reported occurrence of crank warpage from high rpm's, so you try the main girdle and maybe even a beefier crank, etc. These are the best reccomended solutions out there for the ls/vtec build in particular, as the block is built to withstand a redline of 6500 or so. VTEC rpm's go much higher. Personally, I'd like to rev limit at 9K (once all the internals are set) or so. It's just gonna take some attempts at patching the non-vtec block's limitations.
Would I put a block guard in my b18c or b16a? No. Why would I want to? The block is already built to withstand high rpm's. So.. the stupid vs. useful thing is all relative to what kinds of rpm's you're running versus what your block is built to withstand. Can we all just get along now?
A thought on the expansion thing.. if you think the expansion will do damage in the b series, what do you think a closed deck block does? Expand like a balloon? No. It is just fine. In fact, I've heard some physics nerds argue about the open block actually being better than closed deck or filler because the space allows for better expansion resistance under high heat. I can't even wax on that thought, though.
The one question I have, though is this.. what's the best way to install this beast? I'm also waiting on a few more parts before I actually get to pop it in. The actual 'procedure' is about a month away. Is it just a tap in gradual kind of thing? Lotta lube? Rubber mallet?
Would I put a block guard in my b18c or b16a? No. Why would I want to? The block is already built to withstand high rpm's. So.. the stupid vs. useful thing is all relative to what kinds of rpm's you're running versus what your block is built to withstand. Can we all just get along now?
A thought on the expansion thing.. if you think the expansion will do damage in the b series, what do you think a closed deck block does? Expand like a balloon? No. It is just fine. In fact, I've heard some physics nerds argue about the open block actually being better than closed deck or filler because the space allows for better expansion resistance under high heat. I can't even wax on that thought, though.
The one question I have, though is this.. what's the best way to install this beast? I'm also waiting on a few more parts before I actually get to pop it in. The actual 'procedure' is about a month away. Is it just a tap in gradual kind of thing? Lotta lube? Rubber mallet?
06-10-2006, 08:36 PM
#55
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Re: (weiRtech)
People don't get it, blockguards don't do ****. We had a machine shop professionally install a Race Engineering block guard in our b16 and it still cracked a sleeve due to poor tuning. Mind you, it probably prevented it from completely splitting apart but it still cracked about 2" down.
06-12-2006, 10:59 AM
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Re: (gLok)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by gLok »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">People don't get it, blockguards don't do ****. We had a machine shop professionally install a Race Engineering block guard in our b16 and it still cracked a sleeve due to poor tuning. Mind you, it probably prevented it from completely splitting apart but it still cracked about 2" down.</TD></TR></TABLE>
No one ever said that block guards will keep you from cracking a sleeve. With bad enough tuning, you can even crack aftermarket sleeves. Blockguards just raise the threshold for cracking because they support the sleeves in their weakest area.
No one ever said that block guards will keep you from cracking a sleeve. With bad enough tuning, you can even crack aftermarket sleeves. Blockguards just raise the threshold for cracking because they support the sleeves in their weakest area.
06-12-2006, 11:27 AM
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Re: (tthame1)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tthame1 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
No one ever said that block guards will keep you from cracking a sleeve. With bad enough tuning, you can even crack aftermarket sleeves. Blockguards just raise the threshold for cracking because they support the sleeves in their weakest area.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Prove it.
No one ever said that block guards will keep you from cracking a sleeve. With bad enough tuning, you can even crack aftermarket sleeves. Blockguards just raise the threshold for cracking because they support the sleeves in their weakest area.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Prove it.
06-12-2006, 11:51 AM
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Re: (ccivic)
Well I figure there is a reason Honda dropped the semi-closed deck for the H22A4 so Im not messing with what honda invested millions in vs what people say on an internet forum.
06-12-2006, 01:28 PM
#59
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Re: (gLok)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by gLok »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">People don't get it, blockguards don't do ****. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah, even benson sleeves retain the oem open deck. maybe he is wrong too?
Yeah, even benson sleeves retain the oem open deck. maybe he is wrong too?
06-12-2006, 02:53 PM
#60
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Re: (Runnerdown)
every time I get in my car to drive I scratch my ***, then say a little prayer to Darwin .... since I've been doing this I have not been killed in a car accident, therefore it's a proven fact that scratching my *** and praying to Darwin prevents fatal car accidents. Try it, you'll be surprised at how well it works. *
* this should not be construed as legal advice, if you do scratch your *** and pray to Darwin and still end up in a fatal car accident you are not eligible to sue me for missinformation.
* this should not be construed as legal advice, if you do scratch your *** and pray to Darwin and still end up in a fatal car accident you are not eligible to sue me for missinformation.
06-22-2006, 02:44 PM
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Re: (snowseeker)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by snowseeker »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Haven't seen any sleeves cracked with a block guard yet also.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I have. a friend of mine had a put a block guard in his b16a2 when it was built, and about 2 months of him running a greddy kit pushing 10 psi he came back to the house with coolant all over his car, we pulled the head and there it was in the #1 cyl, cracked sleeve, he fought with me before we pulled his head that there was no way he cracked a sleeve cause he had a block guard,
Haven't seen any sleeves cracked with a block guard yet also.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I have. a friend of mine had a put a block guard in his b16a2 when it was built, and about 2 months of him running a greddy kit pushing 10 psi he came back to the house with coolant all over his car, we pulled the head and there it was in the #1 cyl, cracked sleeve, he fought with me before we pulled his head that there was no way he cracked a sleeve cause he had a block guard,
06-22-2006, 04:50 PM
#63
Re: (nowtype)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nowtype »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Come back with some reasonable theory to discuss. If you are able to find any that suggests block guards are even close to a decent idea, I will be happy to discuss them with you. Until then, this mindless bickering will do no one any good.</TD></TR></TABLE>
so i guess the fact that lots of people use them, make over 400 whp with them and havent had a problem with them, isnt as good as a "theory" that suggests they are a good idea? the fact that it works and works well is better to me than any theory
so i guess the fact that lots of people use them, make over 400 whp with them and havent had a problem with them, isnt as good as a "theory" that suggests they are a good idea? the fact that it works and works well is better to me than any theory
06-22-2006, 07:36 PM
#64
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Re: (badeg4)
Proper tuning gets people 400whp on a stock sleeve block whether it has the block guard or not. There are quite a few stock sleeve guys making big power without blockguards, posts or epoxy filled.
Hey, i was all about the blockguard too until i started to see people cracking sleeves with em. Even after seeing that we put one in and eventually cracked the cylinder. In theory it seems like a good idea but in practice i personally don't think it does any good whatsoever. I'd rather put the money towards a good programmable engine management system and a tuner who knows what they are doing.
Hey, i was all about the blockguard too until i started to see people cracking sleeves with em. Even after seeing that we put one in and eventually cracked the cylinder. In theory it seems like a good idea but in practice i personally don't think it does any good whatsoever. I'd rather put the money towards a good programmable engine management system and a tuner who knows what they are doing.
06-23-2006, 05:19 AM
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Re: (gLok)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by gLok »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> I'd rather put the money towards a good programmable engine management system and a tuner who knows what they are doing.</TD></TR></TABLE>
That's pretty much a moot point. If you don't spend the money on that stuff, your engine will break blockguard or not, aftermarket sleeves or not. On top of that, the cost of a blockguard wouldn't even put a dent in purchasing an engine management system or good tuning.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by badeg4 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
so i guess the fact that lots of people use them, make over 400 whp with them and havent had a problem with them, isnt as good as a "theory" that suggests they are a good idea? the fact that it works and works well is better to me than any theory</TD></TR></TABLE>
That's just not good enough. There is no convincing these people even though blockguards have worked time and time again. I have NEVER seen an engine running a properly installed blockguard fail because of the blockguard. Just let all of these guys run their 17 sec cars and be done with it.
That's pretty much a moot point. If you don't spend the money on that stuff, your engine will break blockguard or not, aftermarket sleeves or not. On top of that, the cost of a blockguard wouldn't even put a dent in purchasing an engine management system or good tuning.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by badeg4 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
so i guess the fact that lots of people use them, make over 400 whp with them and havent had a problem with them, isnt as good as a "theory" that suggests they are a good idea? the fact that it works and works well is better to me than any theory</TD></TR></TABLE>
That's just not good enough
. There is no convincing these people even though blockguards have worked time and time again. I have NEVER seen an engine running a properly installed blockguard fail because of the blockguard. Just let all of these guys run their 17 sec cars and be done with it.
06-23-2006, 08:06 PM
#66
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Re: (shortyz21)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by shortyz21 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">hater? yeah im a hater cause its not a logical solution...
and what the expletive does your headgasket blowing have to do with having a blockgaurd? go back to school
</TD></TR></TABLE>
sleevs move around under load.
the blockguard prevents the sleeves form shifting and losing the seal with the hg
so problem is solved!
and what the expletive does your headgasket blowing have to do with having a blockgaurd? go back to school
</TD></TR></TABLE>sleevs move around under load.
the blockguard prevents the sleeves form shifting and losing the seal with the hg
so problem is solved!
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