overvolting

Factory Five Racing has revealed some information about their next car.

It's going to be a mid engined, rwd subaru boxer based 2 seater.

Kit for $9900 and they estimate $15k for a complete build, 1800lb curb weight.

details here: http://www.factoryfive.com/whatsnew/...tcar/info.html

Sketch of looks they are targeting is included, however they are holding a design competition starting march 1st for the body style.

I really like their other cars, dying to see how this one turns out.

xxbulaxx

This should be cool. I've wanted to do a GTM since they came out with that design.

drift2004

Very sick

RC000E

Since having closed my shop in late 2009, I now run a company that builds all FFR products. We have 3 GTM's at this point and we're building more. We build them as turnkey cars for customers.

All I'll say is, don't believe everything you read on the website. These cars are RAW and the quality is pretty poor. It's bang for the buck package initially, due to the complete nature of the kits, but the bodies are pure garbage.

The bodies are made by that body kit company many of you guys may remember called Extreme Dimensions. The bodies require a TON of work to make right. The frames for FFR are made in house, I've been to their facility twice to look at their jigs. Their frames aren't consistent...that's the core issue I have with them.

For example, our most recent car has 3/4" variation in wheelbase from side to side. Also, we can only achieve -.6 camber on the right an -1.2 camber on the left. Caster is maxed at 1 degree. The C5 suspension is used, but the pickup points are different from a Corvette, resulting in a different outcome geometrically speaking.

Throughout the summer months, I got a TON of seat time in an LS7 GTM. The car was actually the one seen on Speed Tv's Battle of the Supercars...called the GT Malan. On the show, the car was garbage because it'd been built by a company local to the owner that had no experience with cars of this nature. They were hot rod guys and put air suspension on it...go figure. When I was hired I refitted the car with coilovers, made some changes and did a chassis setup on the car. Since then I put a lot of time in the car on the racetrack and i will say, the cars are fast.

Fast though, is simply a result of the low weight. To compare it to a true exotic though...forget it...there's no comparison. I've driven the Lexus LFA on a racetrack this past September (a preproduction prototype...the yellow car you see in the Lexus commercial), 2011 ZR1, multiple Ferrari's and the refinement is FAR beyond the best built GTM. The GTM is a simple...simple car.

Overall, FFR fills a void and provides people with the ability to build a great product but...there's just some facts they don't tell you is all i can say.

If you DO decide to build a GTM though, buy someones half built project for pennies on the dollar, then call me! I'm developing a custom body for the GTM that is 10x more exotic and attractive. The GTM looks good on the website, but after being around one for a year...I think their ugly as hell.

I have pics, info, stuff from our car at SEMA last year...anything you need or want...let me know. I can give you guys lots of insight into FFR stuff and GTM's.

A few "validation" photos







As far as this FFR new design is concerned, the best thing I see here is gelcoat panels that are done with paint not necessary. This is the case with Ultima GTR and the RCR SLC...to be competitive and get it done in a reasonable time...this is necessary. As I said though, don't believe everything you read on that site. I can guarantee though, we'll build one of these AS SOON AS they are available. I'll do a build thread here.

champLSinteg

I would love to see you make a build thread of a GTM in the meantime!

RC000E

Well, the only thing I have at the moment is a "rebuild" of the Speed Channel pile of crap. We are starting our next GTM as an in house project around June and that will be the car I take to SEMA. I am also building a 65 Daytona. I need to post some stuff up on Honda Tech again...it's been a while. I am just finishing up this Scion build for a guy I know....it's pretty sick.

Anyway, the Speed Channel pile is half underway. If your interested though. I've got some surprises comin such as:

-I bought a Ford GT Ricardo tranny from the UK I'm stuffin in there
-It's going to be paddle shifted with a prototyped system from Master Shift
-Gonna have some custom body mods because anyone over 6ft tall has NO headroom in these cars...forget a helmet!
-Gonna throw in some more adjustable suspension with a properly sized wheel/tire package. Need to get a lower body height to bring the instant center down and get rid of the huge roll couple we have right now
-Gotta rebuild the LS7...I blew it up...well not really, but I was after a lap time, it was hot and should've backed out of it but said the hell with it.
-The wiring is a MESS...the builders were retards...haha
-Put it all back together and slap GoPro camera's all over it and beat the crap out of it to be sure it holds up this season at MMC.

overvolting

Great info!

Some of that is obvious when you look at their interiors for example. They never seem to look good.

But the inconsistency in their frames sounds serious.

How have they been at listening to guys like you and trying to improve? It seems like the caster adjustment request was heard loud and clear. Also the body work improvement seems to be a high priority.

Obviously you must appreciate their products to a certain degree if you specialize in it.

Might be a good idea to make your voice heard with suggestions for improvement now, while they're still in the middle of the design process. Much easier for them to get changes in when a lot is not set in stone.

5.0 Killa

I like how their site brags about using solidworks to design it.

RC000E

Well, we're probably the most visible company building these cars. We've advertised more than any builder out there, and have built more cars than anyone. We had the show on Speed, been to SEMA multiple times, advertise in Auto Week, Kit car, Dupont, we were at Barrett Jackson, Affluent Page magazine...I could go on and on. The issue is, they give us no recognition. In the event a person asks FFR "who can build a GTM for me" our name isn't even on the list.

In the end, I think FFR has a descent product. They have a lot of quality issues, I could go on for hours about design problems and end quality issues though. I don't want to knock the engineering team over there though, because Jim and a few other guys really know their stuff. I've spoken to "a person high up the ladder" there (being this is the internet I won't say who...cause they'd probably be fired) and they conveyed that there were many decisions made that were the result of the President, and some of the decisions made they feel led to many issues the cars have now.

So...long story right...lol. Either way, if your a CAPABLE builder and DON'T believe everything you read on the website you could build a GTM and be fairly satisfied. One thing you should throw RIGHT OUT THE WINDOW, is using that G50 4500.00 tranny...I blow them things to pieces on stock LS1's. I drive the cars around all the time and they are raw as hell though...and FAST. The LS7 car is just....an amazing car to drive in full fury on a racetrack...it's like nothing I've ever done.

Short story....we rented a private racetrack for a day last October. A member saw us testing and had an 06 Z06 with some mild mods. He was a Trans Am series racecar driver for 10 years (intimidating...ahh yeah) and said he'd like to run me on the track in his Z. I am thinking...man, if I lose to this guy on some flook...I'm gonna be pissed. I've got a good number of years on a road courses, but....I didn't drive 850hp Trans Am cars during those years that's for sure...I drove Civic's...lol.

So, both cars LS7, I've got the weight advantage. Typical lap in our cars at this track is about a 1:02-1:04. We do a warmup lap, then on lap 2 I lay into it like hell. Halfway through the lap I DON'T EVEN SEE HIM. I'm thinking...did his car have an issue, did he wreck? So, I am having fun...I just keep it going for two laps and pit. I pull my helmet and gloves, unbuckle, get out and stand there. I don't see him. I ask our crew..."where did he go". They are like..."he's comin". 24 seconds in two laps I pulled!

He came back in with his passenger sick as hell because he was pushin like crazy. He said man...1st lap and you were GONE. He said, "I was doing every bit of 135-140 on the back straight and you were pulling me like crazy." So, are the cars fast...yes...because if you've ever driven on a track with an 06+ Z06 you'd know, those cars are monsters for the money....hence why I am buying one on March 19th.... 02 Z though...but paid for at least. I sold my 92 6spd in my av.

overvolting

Awesome

This is the kind of thing that makes me think their next car will be a success.

Well, I can tell you that they have already moved their gtm to have window frames on the doors.

It seems like they listen and try to improve based on feedback. I wouldn't tell you to give them feedback for free if you don't want to; but if it were me I would do it. Not only because it costs you nothing, but if you're really interested in the cars it's just worth it whether or not you get paid. Plus it could improve relations and save you headaches on the next build because they fixed problems and now your shop won't have to deal with them.
Just saying.

The president might be cocky as you put it, but I've never met a CEO or president to date that wasn't. Truth be told if you point people like that in the right direction they go on to accomplish amazing things.

Keep us updated on your work. I for one am very tempted to get their mid engine entry level car and put a 6-cylinder boxer in it and turbo it. But based on your feedback I would like to measure the frame before I take delivery.

speeddave

thanks for the info RC00E, My dream build is a FFR GTM, but like the OP i am waiting excitedly for the release of this new car as it fits my current financial situation much better, haha!

there's always a few sides to every story and its good to get all the different views and opinions. I've read on the issues with the body's not fitting right and the major $$$ spent to get them to fit well and look good after paint, but i was under the impression that most of those were solved with the new molds for all the models?

either way it will be a long time before i get to build a gtm if ever, but I would love a build thread or any pics/info you are willing to share.

RC000E

That's not true....there's no such word on developing window frames. The gen 2 removed the fill portion from the windows leading edge off the door and incorporated it into the body.

The body fitment is one step short of a nightmare to be honest. It's VERY time consuming to get it to fit properly. People are spending 200-500 hours on JUST the body. All while FFR quotes 750 to build the whole car. NOONE is seeing those hours.

Arsenal

Have you heard of the Brunton Stalker from Fl? I was able to drive one once and thought it was fantastic. Basically a Lotus 7 body with a GM V6 or 8 engine.

RC000E

There's so many variations of that Lotus 7 out there it's unbelievable. If anyone wants a sick project, skip the GTM and build a Locost 7. The plans are out there...it's cake. The catch is, don't do that lotus 7 style body, do a full body that's modern as hell lookin. There have been a few built with a full body, and I'm tellin you...that's the ticket. Put an LS1/T56 or EVEN an LS1/MN6 or MN12 Corvette transaxle in that thing and LOOK OUT....you'll have your hands full. I just let out the secret of my next build...haha.

overvolting

I can't find it now, but I saw a video with dave smith talking about the future gtm changes and the two things he mentioned were fully framed windows and fully adjustable camber and caster, specifically because that's what the consumers requested.

AgelessDreamz

watching this

RC000E

yes, they've discussed it at length, but builders aren't holding their breath. It would require new molds and changes to add to those they've just made. The fact they weren't incorporated in the first place is beyond me. If anything screams junk, it's the appearance of the windows up close.

We'll see.....in the meantime we were thinking about a kit for builders to use. I get calls about our window frames all the time.

Here's our SEMA car with window frames...

scartail

I may have missed it. Is this new product going to be AWD?

AgelessDreamz

sounds to me that most of the piles ff put out for customers sale are half as@ built like rc said, and really of course they specialize in them i would have to if i had a customer bring one to me with all those issues that really hinder it from being a race car

RC000E

I will say, that I am pretty eager to get my hands on this new car they are working on. With the costs they are projecting, I think younger builders are going to be all over these like flies on sh*t.

Seeing that they are projecting a much better body quality than the GTM is the best thing they could possibly do. I certainly also hope the car has headroom/helmet room.

We'll see.... Don't count them out. I was pretty harsh earlier because I have just been wearing thin with this company as well as with this owner and find myself pretty edgy lately.

FFR...if your watching...we need headroom and we need a better body!

(To the lurker)...you do come off pretty cocky from first impression...no sh*t...not just my opinion man...but hey...I guess you earned it.

markspan6243

that thing looks scary

*Boostwerks*

I would much rather build a SL-C super car. IMO the quality is much higher than FFR and the price reflects that (40K for a kit). However like RC000E mentioned, it is still just a kit car but that fact can be offset with quality craftsmanship. The concept of building my own supercar makes me wet in my trousers.

Here's a well done SL-C (not a fan of the wing tho)...

overvolting

The SL-C looks nice, but I'm looking for better bang for the buck.

Also, I don't think they know what the word 'stage' means.

RC000E

Well, to disect this a little further, your looking at REAL completions of an SLC at 65k, while many, many GTM builders exceed 80k.

SLC also sells in stages, some as low as 10k. In addition, the build time of an SLC is a small fraction versus the GTM. The SLC appears to be damn hard to beat. Fran (owner of RCR) has some serious background...I mean the dudes engineering experience is ridiculous. He dropped a big time position with GM to start his own company and his stuff is wicked.

You really need to break down the costs to determine bang for the buck and how much quality you want.

I do believe though, if your REALLY scrounge and I mean scrounge and if you don't demand new parts but use some old, higher mile stuff, you could build a GTM for 35k done deal. I just ordered a GTM kit today...and we're gonna see.

I'm using FFR new cast wheels, buying a high mile C5 donor, but I'm using a Mendeola tranny...so that cost is gonna be high on the tranny vs the g50. Aside from that though...bare bones. I'll do a build thread maybe inspire some of you guys to jump in.

*Boostwerks*

I've looked into Mendeola as well, but I've been curious how well they'd hold up on the street since they're intended mostly for sand rails? Also they're final drives seem to be really high unless they can build something lower than they advertise?

I've personally talked to Fran a lot though, and can definetly say he is extreemly knowledgeable! I've put together some plans with his help to build a SL-C with a built modular 4 valve 4.6L, a twin GT30R turbo setup, and a sequential 7 speed Xtrac. I have an extensive Excel spreadsheet that includes 99% of everything needed with the rough total at about $100,000 not including any labor.

The SL-C pictured above (built entirely by super lite) was selling for $215,000, so they're not exactly cheap.