Alice II, aka. the LegeMaro
12-10-2010, 06:56 PM
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Alice II, aka. the LegeMaro
Well, here it is. My thread, started by necessity I suppose, with my build I've recently started on. In short, a '92 Acura Legend motor/trans in the back of a '95 Chevy Camaro Z28.
As far as you argument on "obselete" or not, I kinda agree with you... But these heavy, inefficient (lots of mass to turn as well, all the way from the front to the back) parts belong on a car not designed to handle on rails. I love trucks and crawling, and nothing beats solid axles and carbs. But Alice II will not be a rock crawler 
If my estimations are close, I'll be shedding around 500-600lbs with the motor swap alone, plus I plan on doing a few more things to shed some pounds.
I used to have a 3rd gen... I think the 4th seems a bit more aerodynamic. It also uses lots of composite body parts vs. steel. My first 'maro was a '94 Z28 called Alice and I've regretted getting rid of her since the day after. I had installed some poly bushings, d/s rotors, "race" balljoints. It was a very rare color, and I had some very rare Epsilon 16x9.5" 3 piece black spoke rims w/polished lip that just looked dead sexy... I had no idea how rare the rims were, since I got 'em from a guy with a C4 'vette already with 255/50 BFG's shipped for about $400.
I always had a camaro fetish after that, and eventually tried to replace her with an '86 3rd gen Z/28 that was nothing but problems. Now, I have my second 4th gen, and I'm happy again. Although, this wasn't without it's problems either, which I suppose pointed me to the direction I ended up taking.
Go back a couple months before that, probably August this year, I traded a '92 Nissan Sentra base model with some small issues to a guy I've literally known since kindergarten for his '92 Acura Legend coupe, with many cosmetic issues. This included a non-functional driver's side window that had therefore been taken off the track in order to reach the outer handle, as neither interior handles worked. Also, a week or two after he bought the car (for $4000), he hit a coyote at 80mph and totally wiped out the front bumper. So here I was, rollin' around in a kinda cool car with lotsa cosmetic problems. He had told me that it had a problem with one - or more - of the hydraulic motor mounts. This became more and more apparent after a couple months and probably 5k miles (I've been working over 300mi from my home town, and go home often), and after a couple hours of driving I could feel the CVs binding a bit under acceleration. Well, this got worse, and one weekend while back home I struck a deal with my brother and traded him back his '87 Nissan Pathfinder crawler (straight front axle swap, locker, 35" tires) and some new parts I had bought for it + $200 cash.
My brother had just replaced all lower engine bearings and the auto trans (with shift kit) on the camaro, and after getting back home I realized it had a massive leak from the tranny, eventually narrowing it down to a loose fitting for the cooler lines. Which, of course, I couldn't get to without dropping the entire tranny... Also, the motor was consuming or leaking (couldn't tell with all the atf) oil, AND losing oil pressure still, which was the whole reason he had replaced the bearings to begin with. So now I needed to pull the motor and trans anyways... It just seemed obvious to me what the solution was: Cut out the Legend subframe, pull all wiring, and put it in the back of Alice II.
And so the saga begins.
Alice I
Tell me that's not a hot ***
Alice II on my super safe car ramp I rigged up at work...
The tranny mount I souped up for the 'maro (it really liked to bust these, and still mangled this one)
Can't find any pics of the Legend (not very "photogenic"), but here is under the hood
And where most of that will soon be. Yes, the back seat will have to go
Mostly trimmed, ready to remove the heart and add temporary reinforcements, then cut and remove subframe
Rear mostly pulled
And that's pretty much where I stand now. Legend dash is in the middle of being removed. Rear tires on the Chevy axle are literally stuck... Pass. side is just plain stuck, with all lug nuts removed. Driver's side has a lug nut that wont budge, though the rim is "loose" with the other 4 nuts off. Throttle cable will likely be extended either combining the two cars', or using a throttle cable from a boat (free from work), same with shift cables. I will be keeping the Legend auto trans at least for a little bit as I work out any bugs. As funds come in, I will replace it with a 6sp out of a type II. Same for some motor components, such as the heads and maybe intake manifold. I would like to eventually run a stand alone engine management, but we'll see. Motor mounts will be custom fabricated by myself, as will eventually the k-member mounts. Heim joints will replace the shot rubber control arm bushings - I recently saw somebody supplying large ones on Craigslist down in Phoenix for $25 new!
Anyways I'm sure anybody reading this is tired of the book I've written by now, and I've already gotten ahead of myself and released too many secrets
That the squatting improves traction is my only leg to stand on. I didn't know the lbs rating was per inch.
That's a pretty cool build BTW. Ah the Camaro, the 3rd gen is still my fav. It's the only one even close to aerodynamic.
You really should start a new thread and link to it from your post here instead of threadjacking.
And in my humble opinion vehicle tech isn't the same as computers. With vehicles they don't become obsolete they only lose their usage or become unpopular. The live-axle can be lighter, cheaper, and more durable than any IRS. The mechanical carb is cheaper, simpler, and easier to work on than EFI, only requiring a screwdriver to adjust the air:fuel, but with emissions and fuel economy being such a big issue the carb is seeing less use everyday. Hence my reasoning that after any sort of Apocalyptic scenario the carb and live axle will come back.
And I know that the Camaro's old engine was EFI, I'm just ranting.
That's a pretty cool build BTW. Ah the Camaro, the 3rd gen is still my fav. It's the only one even close to aerodynamic.
You really should start a new thread and link to it from your post here instead of threadjacking.
And in my humble opinion vehicle tech isn't the same as computers. With vehicles they don't become obsolete they only lose their usage or become unpopular. The live-axle can be lighter, cheaper, and more durable than any IRS. The mechanical carb is cheaper, simpler, and easier to work on than EFI, only requiring a screwdriver to adjust the air:fuel, but with emissions and fuel economy being such a big issue the carb is seeing less use everyday. Hence my reasoning that after any sort of Apocalyptic scenario the carb and live axle will come back.
And I know that the Camaro's old engine was EFI, I'm just ranting.
If my estimations are close, I'll be shedding around 500-600lbs with the motor swap alone, plus I plan on doing a few more things to shed some pounds.I used to have a 3rd gen... I think the 4th seems a bit more aerodynamic. It also uses lots of composite body parts vs. steel. My first 'maro was a '94 Z28 called Alice and I've regretted getting rid of her since the day after. I had installed some poly bushings, d/s rotors, "race" balljoints. It was a very rare color, and I had some very rare Epsilon 16x9.5" 3 piece black spoke rims w/polished lip that just looked dead sexy... I had no idea how rare the rims were, since I got 'em from a guy with a C4 'vette already with 255/50 BFG's shipped for about $400.
I always had a camaro fetish after that, and eventually tried to replace her with an '86 3rd gen Z/28 that was nothing but problems. Now, I have my second 4th gen, and I'm happy again. Although, this wasn't without it's problems either, which I suppose pointed me to the direction I ended up taking. Go back a couple months before that, probably August this year, I traded a '92 Nissan Sentra base model with some small issues to a guy I've literally known since kindergarten for his '92 Acura Legend coupe, with many cosmetic issues. This included a non-functional driver's side window that had therefore been taken off the track in order to reach the outer handle, as neither interior handles worked. Also, a week or two after he bought the car (for $4000), he hit a coyote at 80mph and totally wiped out the front bumper. So here I was, rollin' around in a kinda cool car with lotsa cosmetic problems. He had told me that it had a problem with one - or more - of the hydraulic motor mounts. This became more and more apparent after a couple months and probably 5k miles (I've been working over 300mi from my home town, and go home often), and after a couple hours of driving I could feel the CVs binding a bit under acceleration. Well, this got worse, and one weekend while back home I struck a deal with my brother and traded him back his '87 Nissan Pathfinder crawler (straight front axle swap, locker, 35" tires) and some new parts I had bought for it + $200 cash.
My brother had just replaced all lower engine bearings and the auto trans (with shift kit) on the camaro, and after getting back home I realized it had a massive leak from the tranny, eventually narrowing it down to a loose fitting for the cooler lines. Which, of course, I couldn't get to without dropping the entire tranny... Also, the motor was consuming or leaking (couldn't tell with all the atf) oil, AND losing oil pressure still, which was the whole reason he had replaced the bearings to begin with. So now I needed to pull the motor and trans anyways... It just seemed obvious to me what the solution was: Cut out the Legend subframe, pull all wiring, and put it in the back of Alice II.
And so the saga begins.
Alice I
Tell me that's not a hot ***
Alice II on my super safe car ramp I rigged up at work...
The tranny mount I souped up for the 'maro (it really liked to bust these, and still mangled this one)
Can't find any pics of the Legend (not very "photogenic"), but here is under the hood
And where most of that will soon be. Yes, the back seat will have to go
Mostly trimmed, ready to remove the heart and add temporary reinforcements, then cut and remove subframe
Rear mostly pulled
And that's pretty much where I stand now. Legend dash is in the middle of being removed. Rear tires on the Chevy axle are literally stuck... Pass. side is just plain stuck, with all lug nuts removed. Driver's side has a lug nut that wont budge, though the rim is "loose" with the other 4 nuts off. Throttle cable will likely be extended either combining the two cars', or using a throttle cable from a boat (free from work), same with shift cables. I will be keeping the Legend auto trans at least for a little bit as I work out any bugs. As funds come in, I will replace it with a 6sp out of a type II. Same for some motor components, such as the heads and maybe intake manifold. I would like to eventually run a stand alone engine management, but we'll see. Motor mounts will be custom fabricated by myself, as will eventually the k-member mounts. Heim joints will replace the shot rubber control arm bushings - I recently saw somebody supplying large ones on Craigslist down in Phoenix for $25 new!
Anyways I'm sure anybody reading this is tired of the book I've written by now, and I've already gotten ahead of myself and released too many secrets
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