burnoutboy

iTrader: (22)

Tell me if this sounds plausible to you please.

I got a GS R hydro FULLY rebuilt. New seals, ALL new bearings, new hardened synchro-tech 1-2 hub and slider, synchro-tech carbon pro series synchros, etc

I never once spun the trans to be sure it spun free, just assumed the guy with the 9 second Hot Rod GS R Integra had assembled it correctly... (HUGE REGRET NOW)

I put the trans on my motor with the wrong half shaft. Used an AT half shaft, not an MT one. The AT shaft pulls about 2 mm closer to the block when bolted down tight setting the half shaft slightly crooked in the diff.



As soon as I let the clutch out IN NEUTRAL the trans was knocking so I killed it after like 10 seconds and ended up pulling the trans and taking back to the guy who rebuilt it. He told me I fucked the diff. Which I had assumed already by the amount of play in the axles when fully inserted. He practically gave me a new diff and I told him to call me if it needs anything else since wife works at dealership.


He ended up putting two diff bearings on it without contacting me and then called and said it was fine in neutral now but binding in gear. Keep in mind I never put the trans in gear on the car.

He's saying he tried for 3 hours to isolate the binding and he can't. All the gears are fine so it must be in the bearing and I need and ENTIRE new set of bearings.... WTF! ZERO miles on the old set of new bearings and they ALL need replaced?


How did any of those bearings get fucked if I never put the car in gear? He told me the trans is still spinning the gears even in neutral. I didn't think that was the case but what do I know about that voodoo... BUT if I fucked the gears up while the trans was in neutral... why does it now spin free in neutral with a new diff and diff bearings but binds in gear?


Please explain this to me like I'm 5. I could have put a ******* mFactory LSD in a ITR trans for what I have in this piece of **** that hasn't spun free for me once!

burnoutboy

iTrader: (22)

First time I've EVER heard a shop say we can't really find the exact problem so lets throw some parts at it.

Mista Bone

Sounds like a synchro is jammed on a gear cone...it will only spin in that gear...IF you can get into it. Normally second gear on D's, 3rd gear on B's.

Me checking for binding issues from trying to use a P21 interlock on a 90-91 cable B tranny....you have to keep the PS1 interlock...which is no longer available.

burnoutboy

iTrader: (22)

Trans spins in all gears, has a tight/notchy/not smooth LOL spot in the rotation in all gears but NOT in neutral.

Mista Bone

But it still spins right?

Carbons some times need to be seated in or they will hang up on a high spot....what I used the above setup for the FIRST time. The above pic is the third time I have used it, will be making a test bench setup to fit D's and B's....with a splash shield!

Aquafina

iTrader: (3)

Does he have any pictures of the trans sans case?

burnoutboy

iTrader: (22)

I went up there on Monday.

It pretty much has to be A bearing.

It binds BAD when in gear, but not at the same spot every time. He went over all the **** he did to test it with me and he exhausted all the mentioned possibilities already.

He told me straight up he knows it's not all of the bearings. BUT replacing them all is the only way he can do it because he has no way to test em each under load so he's just reassembling/disassembling over and over again until he can replicate it. He doesn't have the time to do that. It's most cost effective for me to buy the ******* bearings and let him finish especially since he GUARANTEED me if I replace all the bearings it'll be GTG vs paying some other shop the rate to crack it open AGAIN then buying the parts that it needs instead of doing a blanket fix on all the possibly effected bearings.


I'll let y'all know how it goes.

Seems like we had a bit of a miscommunication on the phone Saturday because he was rushed. He's still good people in my book. I'm just frustrated as **** with the whole situation.

Aquafina

iTrader: (3)

If a bearing is bad it will show spinning it by hand, if it only does it under load then something else is causing the issue.

burnoutboy

iTrader: (22)

Honestly I'm probably miscommunicating what he told me.

He made a great deal of sense when he went over it with me piece by piece. Bearings are bought and got dropped off yesterday. We'll see if it fixes the issue or not. Either way he guaranteed he had a trans with the same exact issue and he's SURE this is it. He's obviously confident the issue is a bearing.

holmesnmanny

Bearings dont really make knocking sounds though they make whirling or roaring sounds and they take a while to go bad. Im kinda worried its something else. Have him check all the synchros, hubs, gears, and springs for damage. Dont just let him replace the bearings. Something else isnt right.

Make sure he checks the differential shim clearance. He should have already when he replaced the differential.

Aquafina

iTrader: (3)

Bearings can knock.

Honda Bull

If it doesn't bind at all in neutral, then chances are the forward gears on both shafts and the bearings of the input shaft are in good shape. Without seeing it in front of me, my initial thought to look into sounds like the issue could be final drive, countershaft bearing, or diff bearing related. But it could very well be something totally different I've never seen before. Very hard to say given we don't know how the work's been completed and we don't know what damage was done with the wrong half shaft (if any).

Judging by location and said shop car, I think I know who you are having rebuild it. I don't know enough about their quality of work to make any comment on that though.

OneBadTurboCRV

Improper clearances can cause this issue as well as a synchro not clocked correctly. If the case doesn't slide all the way down to ZERO gap then something is wrong inside with alignment or spacing. I have seen people testing gears with no case on and popped the 5th gear synchro out of alignment. They then proceeded to tighten the case and broke the ears off the synchro binding everything. Wouldn't change gears or anything.

burnoutboy

iTrader: (22)

Well HORRIBLE news/bad news.

HORRIBLE NEWS?

It wasn't the bearings. So now I have $190.64 worth of bearings I have NO use for.



He swapped the bearings in and surprise it still bound. Then he decided to actually do what he originally told me he already did and inspect each individual piece. EVERYTHING looked fine in a last ditch attempt to find the issue he swapped it all into a different case from another b-series he has at the shop. It worked flawlessly

Bad News?

I need a ******* b series case and he's telling me the bearings were "process of elimination" and couldn't be helped. That **** is ENTIRELY different from what he told me originally.


I don't know DICK about transmissions but even I could have thrown parts at it until I found the issue. I took it to a "professional" who's owned this shop since the late 90's and this is what I get.



Anybody got a spare case they can come off of cheap? Willing to throw up some open, installed, and removed but GOOD OEM bearings in partial trade.

I have
91002-PS1-003
91101-PG1-008
91102-PLW-003
91003-P21-003
91004-P21-003

Aquafina

iTrader: (3)

Using the wrong halfshaft isn't going to damage the case. Either he didn't install the dowel pins that align the case and clutch housing, or he did something very wrong and warped the case.

turbohatch96y7

iTrader: (15)

I told u it was the case.

turbohatch96y7

iTrader: (15)

He used a different upper case from a different trans.

One of them must be fucked.

burnoutboy

iTrader: (22)

Pins are/were alwyas there... what could he have done to damage it? Is there any way IO can prove any of that? I don't doubt it, but I prob won't be able to prove it either is my thinking.

LMAO no you didn't ********.

Bone and I THINK James mentioned it as a possibility in messages though.

They weren't fucked before install though...

OneBadTurboCRV

The guy obviously doesn't have a clue what he is doing. Did he actually measure and / or remove the shims before he randomly decided to throw parts together? Any time internals are put into a different case or different cases are used the shims must be clearance checked. To avoid the issue you have, they need to be removed to prevent potential damage if care isn't taken before tightening the cases together.

This is VERY common with differential swaps where the shim needs to be changed due to mass production differences in dimensions. Pull all shims and see if it still binds.

burnoutboy

iTrader: (22)

Ignore turbohatch, he's trollingLOL


The shims were changed for the new case.

Honda Bull

Diff could be shimmed too tightly. In neutral, the mainshaft would be mostly free to spin without trouble. As soon as a gear is selected, however, it would transfer the motion to a differential that won't turn by hand due to it being too tightly shimmed.

What is the thrust clearance of the differential? If the shims were set, your builder can without question disclose this information. If the info cannot be disclosed... well, they didn't set the shims properly and don't want you to find out.

To be too tight to bind the bearings and possibly distort the case, you'd be looking at over -.030" probably. I've run them as tight as -.005" without issue on certain setups. .005 isn't enough to distort a case though. Just tightens the bearing.

Get the clearance that your builder set, however, before we diagnose any further. Did the builder also use the correct differential bearings? Make sure he used GSR/ITR bearings on it since it's a GSR trans. Cannot use B16/LS bearings without a few modifications with spacing. If B16/LS bearings were used, you could have the diff's VSS gear resting on the case if spacers/shims weren't used on the bottom side. I think you should have the builder (with you present), pull the gear stacks out, put the case back on with the diff and diff shim still inside, and see how the diff spins by hand once the bolts are tightened.

burnoutboy

iTrader: (22)

I bought all the bearings new from Honda. The diff bearings he gave me were new OEM in package both the same part #, 91005-P80-003 I believe.

Will get clearance from him. Which case am I asking about the clearance on the bad one or the one he had it in when it was spinning right?

Mista Bone

So this was your good case to begin with that he ruined????

Honda Bull

Should be the correct bearing part number for GSR diff. So that's OK and ruled out. As long as it's installed the correct way. :p

As for clearance, when was it ever spinning correctly? I recall your first rebuild you had never tested. And since then, I was under the impression it hasn't spun properly.

burnoutboy

iTrader: (22)

Apparently yes LOL.

He put it in a case from another B trans he just rebuilt. (Swapped all my internals into someone elses case to test that theory out). He re shimmed it for that case and everything spins fine in that case. Just never spun right in mine since the whole half shaft issue. He asures me it spun fine on the original rebuild and I have to assume he's telling the truth because he had me buy a bunch of fresh **** for the first rebuild and would have just told me to buy more then if it wasn't LOL.

The one thing I can say for sure is ther was NO slop in the diff itself as far as axles installed BEFORE I ran it and it was ALL fucked up where the axles went in after I ran it. I DEFINITELY did a lot of damage with that halfshaft. Just can't believe I could have fucked the case. I guess if the diff was binding bad enough it could have worn the inside where the bearings sit or something. I have the old diff bearings and they came out in pieces. They were TOASTED.