Converting to a 'rear engine' position...Help
#1
Converting to a 'rear engine' position...Help
Can you suggest a way to reverse the rotation of the final drive in a FWD transmission's differencial? I want to build a 3-wheel car that has a FWD engine/trans set-up spun around to make a rear-engine RWD set-up. If I don't reverse the final drive rotation it will have 3 speeds in reverse & only one speed going forward. I'm not expecting a simple 'bolt-on' solution. I was looking at a '96-2000 Civic Auto trans but will change plans if there's a better doner transmission. I'm not looking to simply move the FWD set-up to a RWD mid-engine location. Much Thanks !!
Last edited by Beast of Burden; 11-28-2009 at 08:57 AM. Reason: mis-spelled word
#3
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Re: Converting to a 'rear engine' position...Help
sounds like you have yourself a custom chassis in which you are fabricating the engine mounts, so why not just turn the engine the other way around.
and using the automatic would save you some trouble from having to fabricate shift linkage.
you got pics or are you still planning at this point?
and using the automatic would save you some trouble from having to fabricate shift linkage.
you got pics or are you still planning at this point?
#4
Re: Converting to a 'rear engine' position...Help
OK, 4 speeds in reverse direction & only 1 speed in forward. I'm looking into which transmission will convert over for my project. I'd prefer a Honda Civic's motor-trans set.
The question is still how can I reverse the rotation of the final drive when the engine is turned around backwards.
The question is still how can I reverse the rotation of the final drive when the engine is turned around backwards.
#5
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Re: Converting to a 'rear engine' position...Help
Why do you need to have the engine turned 180° (turned around backwards)? If you mount it in the same orientation as it sits in the car chassis there would be no need of a custom transmission.
#6
Re: Converting to a 'rear engine' position...Help
sounds like you have yourself a custom chassis in which you are fabricating the engine mounts, so why not just turn the engine the other way around.
and using the automatic would save you some trouble from having to fabricate shift linkage.
you got pics or are you still planning at this point?
and using the automatic would save you some trouble from having to fabricate shift linkage.
you got pics or are you still planning at this point?
My design 'works' best with the engine/trans behind the rear wheels. Not just for the additional space it allows the interior but also the ease of adapting so many OEM mounts & brackets. If it was an old "front engine/rear wheel drive set-up", flipping over the ring gear to the other side of the pinion gear would do it... but FWD's gears run parallel to each other. Any suggestions?
#7
Re: Converting to a 'rear engine' position...Help
That's true but not in with what I'm planning. I've explained in another post in this thread.
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#8
Honda-Tech Member
Re: Converting to a 'rear engine' position...Help
Now that you mention that you require the engine to be behind the rear wheels. I see what your talking about. Going to require a wee bit of ballast in the front I would think. Unfortunately I am not aware of any such transmission. Most transverse mounted engines that I have seen are in front of the drive axles. Maybe someone else will be able to help.
Good luck
Good luck
#9
Honda-Tech Member
Re: Converting to a 'rear engine' position...Help
if you mate an older civic engine (D-series) which spins CCW with a later model transmission like an R-series or K-series which spins CW. you should end up with a reverse-mount (180 degrees) drive train that will spin the wheels the correct direction.
you'll need to build some sort of adapter plate and so on... but i get the idea this is a pretty involved custom project anyway.
additionally, since the R-series and K-series transmissions may be hard to find and expensive, adapting the engine to a FWD trans from a toyota, or nissan or any CW transverse arrangement may suit your needs.
you'll need to build some sort of adapter plate and so on... but i get the idea this is a pretty involved custom project anyway.
additionally, since the R-series and K-series transmissions may be hard to find and expensive, adapting the engine to a FWD trans from a toyota, or nissan or any CW transverse arrangement may suit your needs.
#10
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Re: Converting to a 'rear engine' position...Help
A lot of people who do custom (mid-engine) cars use the Porsche G50 Transaxle. With this you can mount the engine longitudinally.
I really don't know if this helps at all, just throwing out ideas.
I really don't know if this helps at all, just throwing out ideas.
#11
Re: Converting to a 'rear engine' position...Help
if you mate an older civic engine (D-series) which spins CCW with a later model transmission like an R-series or K-series which spins CW. you should end up with a reverse-mount (180 degrees) drive train that will spin the wheels the correct direction.
you'll need to build some sort of adapter plate and so on... but i get the idea this is a pretty involved custom project anyway.
additionally, since the R-series and K-series transmissions may be hard to find and expensive, adapting the engine to a FWD trans from a toyota, or nissan or any CW transverse arrangement may suit your needs.
you'll need to build some sort of adapter plate and so on... but i get the idea this is a pretty involved custom project anyway.
additionally, since the R-series and K-series transmissions may be hard to find and expensive, adapting the engine to a FWD trans from a toyota, or nissan or any CW transverse arrangement may suit your needs.
#12
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Re: Converting to a 'rear engine' position...Help
D15s and D16s were available in many similar variations in civics from 1988-2004 or 2005. i would shoot for something between '92 and '00. the 99-00 Si civic came with a B-series, which is more powerful but more expensive and may not suit your plans.
#13
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Re: Converting to a 'rear engine' position...Help
remember input shaft size, clutch size flywheel size and lining up of the starter with the flywheel.
I guess i am sitll confused as to why the motor has to be turned 180 degrees in stead of just being moved straight to the rear? i know you said it wasn't in your plans but what in your plans makes this impossible? cause it would be alot easier and safe you a lot of fabrication time and money.
I guess i am sitll confused as to why the motor has to be turned 180 degrees in stead of just being moved straight to the rear? i know you said it wasn't in your plans but what in your plans makes this impossible? cause it would be alot easier and safe you a lot of fabrication time and money.
#14
Re: Converting to a 'rear engine' position...Help
remember input shaft size, clutch size flywheel size and lining up of the starter with the flywheel.
I guess i am sitll confused as to why the motor has to be turned 180 degrees in stead of just being moved straight to the rear? i know you said it wasn't in your plans but what in your plans makes this impossible? cause it would be alot easier and safe you a lot of fabrication time and money.
I guess i am sitll confused as to why the motor has to be turned 180 degrees in stead of just being moved straight to the rear? i know you said it wasn't in your plans but what in your plans makes this impossible? cause it would be alot easier and safe you a lot of fabrication time and money.
#15
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Re: Converting to a 'rear engine' position...Help
i like the description of your plans and the direction this project is going. be sure to post some pictures of the build somewhere.
#16
Re: Converting to a 'rear engine' position...Help
As soon as I'm sure of the solution to my engine/trans selection, I'll find a salvage vehicle that will have the most of my 'parts' list and get started with the "hands-on" work. Just like other projects..."Think twice, Cut Once" I don't want to waist time or money (not enough to spare). I'm kinda curious why Honda made engines that ran in opposite directions...what advantage could there have been. Oh well...
#17
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Re: Converting to a 'rear engine' position...Help
think mazda miata donor. Flip the ring keep this sleek project going. You could go shaft driven motorcycle motor but AC is out. Civic to chevy S10 4cyl trans via adapter plate then flip it. There are many ways to acheive what I think you want. What is the total desired rear axle width including wheels. Wheelbase? Sounds like fun to me.
#18
Re: Converting to a 'rear engine' position...Help
if you mate an older civic engine (D-series) which spins CCW with a later model transmission like an R-series or K-series which spins CW. you should end up with a reverse-mount (180 degrees) drive train that will spin the wheels the correct direction.
you'll need to build some sort of adapter plate and so on... but i get the idea this is a pretty involved custom project anyway.
additionally, since the R-series and K-series transmissions may be hard to find and expensive, adapting the engine to a FWD trans from a toyota, or nissan or any CW transverse arrangement may suit your needs.
you'll need to build some sort of adapter plate and so on... but i get the idea this is a pretty involved custom project anyway.
additionally, since the R-series and K-series transmissions may be hard to find and expensive, adapting the engine to a FWD trans from a toyota, or nissan or any CW transverse arrangement may suit your needs.
I seam to remember (back in the 'ol days) some marine racers would change the rotation of some old big blocks to adapt to certain boat drives (I might be remembering wrong). But still curious how Honda changed the rotations on their I-4 style motors.
Thanks
#19
Re: Converting to a 'rear engine' position...Help
think mazda miata donor. Flip the ring keep this sleek project going. You could go shaft driven motorcycle motor but AC is out. Civic to chevy S10 4cyl trans via adapter plate then flip it. There are many ways to acheive what I think you want. What is the total desired rear axle width including wheels. Wheelbase? Sounds like fun to me.
#20
Re: Converting to a 'rear engine' position...Help
Oh...and as far as a motorcycle engine... Only a Honda Goldwing has reverse (or Harley with a $1,800 adapter) plus no 'power take-off' for A/C compressor... small capacity for charging the battery. Shaft or chain would still be a much longer set-up & would eat up the passenger compartment area. The FWD set-up is the only way for my plans.
#21
Honda-Tech Member
Re: Converting to a 'rear engine' position...Help
Not to keep bugging you...But... whatever it is that causes the D-series engine to run CCW, could it be adapted to a CW engine to change it's rotation? If the rotation was determined by the distributer, cams or crank shaft...wouldn't it be easier to convert the engine's guts than it would be to make the parts needed to mate a whole different engine to the a trans? Just looking for all options so maybe one donor car could be made to supply both.
I seam to remember (back in the 'ol days) some marine racers would change the rotation of some old big blocks to adapt to certain boat drives (I might be remembering wrong). But still curious how Honda changed the rotations on their I-4 style motors.
Thanks
I seam to remember (back in the 'ol days) some marine racers would change the rotation of some old big blocks to adapt to certain boat drives (I might be remembering wrong). But still curious how Honda changed the rotations on their I-4 style motors.
Thanks
back to the motor spinning the way it did from the factory.. if you use an automatic transaxle, it should be very straightforward: a spacer/adapter for the flex plate and a 3/8" or 1/2" plate of steel with some holes cut and excess material removed. something any modest home machinist can handle.
#22
Re: Converting to a 'rear engine' position...Help
Great... That makes perfect sense.
I do plan on an automatic so the adapter plate is the way to go. I'll check on a few of the up-coming "abandoned auto auctions" at the area 'Auto Tow Yards'. With my business in holiday rush it will be a while before I'll get enough 'hobby' time to start any fabricating but finding the donor parts is the first stage.
Thank you very much... this forum has been a great find and a lot of help.
I do plan on an automatic so the adapter plate is the way to go. I'll check on a few of the up-coming "abandoned auto auctions" at the area 'Auto Tow Yards'. With my business in holiday rush it will be a while before I'll get enough 'hobby' time to start any fabricating but finding the donor parts is the first stage.
Thank you very much... this forum has been a great find and a lot of help.
#23
Honda-Tech Member
Re: Converting to a 'rear engine' position...Help
one thing you should check on the transmission you find, some autos have a one way clutch on the first gear (i know civics do). try to avoid this or dissable it if you find you have one. theoretically it'll chew up the clutch pack for first gear if you run it backwards.
#24
Re: Converting to a 'rear engine' position...Help
Good point to know... I was thinking it would be a good idea to see if the auto trans that comes on a 'B-series' engine would take the same torque converter as the CW motor's auto trans. That would imply that the shaft size would be the same & flywheel's bolt pattern matches. That way it would (basically) only need an adapter plate & swap out starters. (I would think)
I did a search to find the models that came with the 'B-series' motor... it mentioned ones for Asian market, others for Europe market but didn't see any for American market (except Del Sol). It might just be the site I found...I'll still search to find out out specifically what year/model I'll need to keep an eye open for.
I did a search to find the models that came with the 'B-series' motor... it mentioned ones for Asian market, others for Europe market but didn't see any for American market (except Del Sol). It might just be the site I found...I'll still search to find out out specifically what year/model I'll need to keep an eye open for.
#25
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Re: Converting to a 'rear engine' position...Help
Good point to know... I was thinking it would be a good idea to see if the auto trans that comes on a 'B-series' engine would take the same torque converter as the CW motor's auto trans. That would imply that the shaft size would be the same & flywheel's bolt pattern matches. That way it would (basically) only need an adapter plate & swap out starters. (I would think)
I did a search to find the models that came with the 'B-series' motor... it mentioned ones for Asian market, others for Europe market but didn't see any for American market (except Del Sol). It might just be the site I found...I'll still search to find out out specifically what year/model I'll need to keep an eye open for.
I did a search to find the models that came with the 'B-series' motor... it mentioned ones for Asian market, others for Europe market but didn't see any for American market (except Del Sol). It might just be the site I found...I'll still search to find out out specifically what year/model I'll need to keep an eye open for.
90 - 01 Integra
99 - 00 Civic Si
Del Sol vtec (I forget what years)
CR-V (also forget what years)