burning excessive amount of oil after 2 valve jobs
#1
burning excessive amount of oil after 2 valve jobs
Stock d16z6, header, skunk 2 cat back, aem cold air intake. Started out by resealing the top end of the engine with a cometic head gasket set "pro2000t" (part number). After assembly and start up it smoked a little dues to residue cleared up. As it warmed up it started smoking again. Did some testing, plugged off pcv system, leak down test and a compression test everything is ok. So I ripped the head off again and installed new honda oem valve seals 8 intake and 8 exhaust and a felpro head gasket. Started it up still smokes and burns excessive amount of oil did the same tests same results. Im clueless at this point cant figure anything out. VALVE GUIDES ARE NOT CRACKED...
#5
Re: burning excessive amount of oil after 2 valve jobs
It never had this problem in the beginning. The oil is building up in the intake ports of the head. Did a leak down test and everything is holding no leaks found threw the exhaust, intake, or the oil cap. And again the pcv system is bypassed at this point until i solve the problem.
#7
Bad oil rings wont show up in a compression test since they have nothing to do with compression. Oil in the intake ports sounds like a gunked pcv valve. Is the oil build up pretty heavy in the intake manifold?
Btw bypassing the system leads to more issues as crank case pressure builds up
Btw bypassing the system leads to more issues as crank case pressure builds up
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#8
#9
For example, I had a b18a1 that tested 210 on all 4 using my gauge. It eventually spun a rod bearing cause the po had a tight bearing. The engine always smoked after coasting in gear at high rpm
Upon disassembly, I noticed the oil control rings were sludged and stuck really bad. Basically they werent doin their job properly.
#10
Re: burning excessive amount of oil after 2 valve jobs
He is right oil rings wont effect your numbers but they will show bad in a leak down and im not using the entire leak down tool and nevet have always just used compressed air straight from the tank (160psi) and shows no sgins of leakage.
#11
Honda-Tech Member
Re: burning excessive amount of oil after 2 valve jobs
#12
Honda-Tech Member
Re: burning excessive amount of oil after 2 valve jobs
Sorry I cannot offer any advice s to what direction to to go other than to remove the head and double check your work.
#14
Honda-Tech Member
#15
Re: burning excessive amount of oil after 2 valve jobs
It's physically impossible to have good compression but still have bad piston rings.(obviously if you have good compression BOTH sets of rings are good).
If he had bad compression, then yeah obviously it could be piston rings or valve seals, which is why you would do a wet test to determine if the rings are bad. But if his compression numbers are fine, then obviously there is no leak.
Unless somehow the oil is leaking past the rings and into a black hole before it gets into the combustion chamber, which is causing his compression numbers to still be high. But I think this is common sense.
If he had bad compression, then yeah obviously it could be piston rings or valve seals, which is why you would do a wet test to determine if the rings are bad. But if his compression numbers are fine, then obviously there is no leak.
Unless somehow the oil is leaking past the rings and into a black hole before it gets into the combustion chamber, which is causing his compression numbers to still be high. But I think this is common sense.
#16
You do realize that engines have 3 rings right? The top 2 are compression rings. They are what create compression. Tge 3rd is the oil control ring (which actually consists of 3 parts, 2 scrapers and a spring ring that seperate them and hold them against the cylinder.
The oil ring does not create compression. If you removed the oil ring completely, engine compression during a test would show zero change.
The oil ring simply scrapes off excess oil from the cylinder walls to ensure the engine doesnt burn the oil. When oil rings get sludged and stuck, the spring ring cant push the scrapers against the cylinder wall (they are very low tension rings vs compression rings, only applying enough pressure to scrape off excess oil) so they can get stuck in the piston and allow excess oil to burn off.
The oil ring does not create compression. If you removed the oil ring completely, engine compression during a test would show zero change.
The oil ring simply scrapes off excess oil from the cylinder walls to ensure the engine doesnt burn the oil. When oil rings get sludged and stuck, the spring ring cant push the scrapers against the cylinder wall (they are very low tension rings vs compression rings, only applying enough pressure to scrape off excess oil) so they can get stuck in the piston and allow excess oil to burn off.
#18
If the compression rings are sealing to the point that your compression is perfect, meaning that oil isnt getting past it, but you seem to think that oil is getting past the oil control rings, where exactly is this magical oil disappearing to ?
Again, im just begging you to say its escaping into a black hole located just beyond the oil control rings but before the compression rings. /laff
Again, im just begging you to say its escaping into a black hole located just beyond the oil control rings but before the compression rings. /laff
#19
Honda-Tech Member
Re: burning excessive amount of oil after 2 valve jobs
If the compression rings are sealing to the point that your compression is perfect, meaning that oil isnt getting past it, but you seem to think that oil is getting past the oil control rings, where exactly is this magical oil disappearing to ?
Again, im just begging you to say its escaping into a black hole located just beyond the oil control rings but before the compression rings. /laff
Again, im just begging you to say its escaping into a black hole located just beyond the oil control rings but before the compression rings. /laff
Youre wrong. Period. Sit back,read, and learn,you have nothing useful to contribute to this thread.
One or two backyard builds, rummaging around a salvage yard pulling parts does not a professional make.....
Last edited by DCFIVER; 11-03-2014 at 03:55 PM.
#20
Honda-Tech Member
Re: burning excessive amount of oil after 2 valve jobs
Compression and leak down are common suggestions for amateur internet mechanics with little real experience. When the oil scraping rings fail this places the majority of the oil scraping to the second ring. Technically the second ring also is considered an oil ring but when overwhelmed will pass oil through the gap especially under vacuum. I have rebuild so many Hondas with good compression, leak down and performance that had high oil consumption. DCFIVER and m4xwell are right on the money.
#21
Re: burning excessive amount of oil after 2 valve jobs
No, you're completely wrong. If you have low compression then sure it's possible for oil to seep past, but not with good numbers. This is common sense and is the reason for a wet compression test. Apparently none of you know how to interpret compression test numbers nor what a wet compression test does.
Yeah, if you have low compression numbers, even if they are all the same, that could mean you have leaking rings, but you can't have good compression numbers like the ones the OP posted and still have leaking rings. It's not possible. And there is a lot more power in a combustion stroke than there is in 22 inches of vacuum or a leakdown test. Neither of those will yield the force necessary to successfully test piston rings.
But you guys can keep thinking that, but not everyone else in the planet that knows what a wet compression test does and how to interpret high compression numbers across the board.
http://www.gregsengine.com/cylinder-...n-testing.html
Yeah, if you have low compression numbers, even if they are all the same, that could mean you have leaking rings, but you can't have good compression numbers like the ones the OP posted and still have leaking rings. It's not possible. And there is a lot more power in a combustion stroke than there is in 22 inches of vacuum or a leakdown test. Neither of those will yield the force necessary to successfully test piston rings.
But you guys can keep thinking that, but not everyone else in the planet that knows what a wet compression test does and how to interpret high compression numbers across the board.
http://www.gregsengine.com/cylinder-...n-testing.html
#23
B*a*n*n*e*d
iTrader: (1)
Re: burning excessive amount of oil after 2 valve jobs
lol people don't read for ****.
he says "The oil is building up in the intake ports of the head"
and everyone is beating the dead horse about piston rings you fried
and the fact that it didn't burn oil before the valvejob
if the valve lash was too tight his leakdown would show
he said he did compression and leakdown.
are you 100% positive that you got the valve seals installed correctly?
and you can test on decelerate.
if during deceleration it starts smoking then your valve seals are leaking
because high vacuum is pulling oil through the seals when you decelerate if they are not installed good or defective or valves are worn out or just slightly bent
as it happened to me sometimes shops will mess with the valve guides and scuff them to"freshen up".
that's what happened to me. after the freshening up I lost oil in about 200 miles and my engine was toast because I didn't see it smoke at night when I was driving back
brand new valve seals also
he says "The oil is building up in the intake ports of the head"
and everyone is beating the dead horse about piston rings you fried
and the fact that it didn't burn oil before the valvejob
if the valve lash was too tight his leakdown would show
he said he did compression and leakdown.
are you 100% positive that you got the valve seals installed correctly?
and you can test on decelerate.
if during deceleration it starts smoking then your valve seals are leaking
because high vacuum is pulling oil through the seals when you decelerate if they are not installed good or defective or valves are worn out or just slightly bent
as it happened to me sometimes shops will mess with the valve guides and scuff them to"freshen up".
that's what happened to me. after the freshening up I lost oil in about 200 miles and my engine was toast because I didn't see it smoke at night when I was driving back
brand new valve seals also
#25
Honda-Tech Member
Re: burning excessive amount of oil after 2 valve jobs
lol people don't read for ****.
he says "The oil is building up in the intake ports of the head"
and everyone is beating the dead horse about piston rings you fried
and the fact that it didn't burn oil before the valvejob
if the valve lash was too tight his leakdown would show
he said he did compression and leakdown.
are you 100% positive that you got the valve seals installed correctly?
and you can test on decelerate.
if during deceleration it starts smoking then your valve seals are leaking
because high vacuum is pulling oil through the seals when you decelerate if they are not installed good or defective or valves are worn out or just slightly bent
as it happened to me sometimes shops will mess with the valve guides and scuff them to"freshen up".
that's what happened to me. after the freshening up I lost oil in about 200 miles and my engine was toast because I didn't see it smoke at night when I was driving back
brand new valve seals also
he says "The oil is building up in the intake ports of the head"
and everyone is beating the dead horse about piston rings you fried
and the fact that it didn't burn oil before the valvejob
if the valve lash was too tight his leakdown would show
he said he did compression and leakdown.
are you 100% positive that you got the valve seals installed correctly?
and you can test on decelerate.
if during deceleration it starts smoking then your valve seals are leaking
because high vacuum is pulling oil through the seals when you decelerate if they are not installed good or defective or valves are worn out or just slightly bent
as it happened to me sometimes shops will mess with the valve guides and scuff them to"freshen up".
that's what happened to me. after the freshening up I lost oil in about 200 miles and my engine was toast because I didn't see it smoke at night when I was driving back
brand new valve seals also
Sometimes if you rebuild or replace the head on a relatively tired block the fresh valve job can increase the vacuum enough to start more smoking and oil consumption. But from the OP's description its sounds like only gaskets, not a valve job or guides etc.