Dartanian

Just got my Koni Yellows in today to complete the parts that I need for my upgraded suspension. I got the Ground Controls on Tuesday. They are going in this weekend and hopefully, I won't have to mess with the suspension ever again since this is the third setup (4th if you count stock) that this car has seen.

Koni Yellow Shocks
Ground Control Coilovers custom spring rate 350F 450R

I have a question to anyone who has installed a set of these...Do I need an adapter to fit the coilover sleeves on the shocks or is the small amount of play they have over the snap ring on the Koni's fine? I am still a bit fuzzy on how everything is assembled and if I need anything more than just the coilover and shock sets.

Also, how is my drop height going to look using the default positions of the snap rings on the shocks? I want about 1.5F, 1.25R. Should I use the upper snap ring position?

macDelli

most of the time the coilover kit comes with everything you'll need but im not sure on this one... bump for a better answer

743power

it looks like you have the koni specific collars. As for setting the height, it will be trial and error. I always put mine on the topring groove just to try to keep the spring play to a minimum.

Dartanian

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by macDelli &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">most of the time the coilover kit comes with everything you'll need but im not sure on this one... bump for a better answer </TD></TR></TABLE>

It looks like it did. I was fussing around with it a little more to invision what it will look like assembled and it does appear to have everything I need to get them on.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 743power &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">it looks like you have the koni specific collars. As for setting the height, it will be trial and error. I always put mine on the topring groove just to try to keep the spring play to a minimum.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Good stuff. They look to be the right collars because they just slip over the shock and have an indentation for the snap ring. The fronts came with the snap ring on the top perch, but the rears had it on the middle perch. Should I just leave it how it is, or move the rear to the top perch as well?

94eg!

iTrader: (2)

The sleeves you have are the ones that do NOT need adapters. They just sit right on the snap ring. I've seen some people put a couple pieces of electrical tape on the shock body to take up the slack, but it's not necessary.

As for the ride height issue, I set mine on the bottom snap ring setting so that the gold nut would be more in the middle of the sleeve once I got the ride height dialed in. Only the final ride height will determine the amount of play in the spring at full droop. It does NOT matter what snap ring setting your on. Just make sure you set both sleeves the same from left to right before the install. Then make sure to adjust the right height the exact same number of turns from left to right. That will keep the corner weights in check (no big deal). You will have to go through a trial-&-error period to get the ride height to your acceptable level...

Understeer

Looks like you got the default 8" front and 7" rear length springs?

12.5" and 12.75" front the center of wheel hub to fender will lower 1.5" all around. I have the same setup and I can't go any lower than that because you'll run out of suspension travel. I have roughly 1" of suspension travel, bumpstops are cut in half as directed by Ground Control. About 2 finger wheel gaps all around running 205/50/15. Any lower than that and you'll be riding on bumpstops all day long. I suggest you get some Ground Control Upper Mounts to gain some extra travel.

EDit: 12.5", 12.75


Modified by Understeer at 4:51 PM 6/4/2006

Dartanian

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Understeer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Looks like you got the default 8" front and 7" rear length springs?

14.25" and 14.75" front the center of wheel hub to fender will lower 1.5" all around. I have the same setup and I can't go any lower than that because you'll run out of suspension travel. I have roughly 1" of suspension travel, bumpstops are cut in half as directed by Ground Control. About 2 finger wheel gaps all around running 205/50/15. Any lower than that and you'll be riding on bumpstops all day long. I suggest you get some Ground Control Upper Mounts to gain some extra travel.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Really? I would have never pictured that because the shafts look so long when they aren't all compressed and the springs aren't installed. I wasn't planning on dumping it, so hopefully a mild drop will leave me enough suspension travel. If not, a set of upper mounts isn't that expensive.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 94eg! &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The sleeves you have are the ones that do NOT need adapters. They just sit right on the snap ring. I've seen some people put a couple pieces of electrical tape on the shock body to take up the slack, but it's not necessary.

As for the ride height issue, I set mine on the bottom snap ring setting so that the gold nut would be more in the middle of the sleeve once I got the ride height dialed in. Only the final ride height will determine the amount of play in the spring at full droop. It does NOT matter what snap ring setting your on. Just make sure you set both sleeves the same from left to right before the install. Then make sure to adjust the right height the exact same number of turns from left to right. That will keep the corner weights in check (no big deal). You will have to go through a trial-&-error period to get the ride height to your acceptable level...</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah, I figured that it would take a while to get the height adjusted, especially since I have no frame of reference before installing the springs and dropping the car. I will leave the snap rings where they are and go from there.

super_nguyen

i got the same set up except mine are 350F and 400R, i got the top hats since i didn't feel like uncompressing my stock suspension.

super_nguyen

for a minimal drop i would leave the heights set to what they are now in your pic, then if its too high i would then drop it, its easy to adjust though.

94eg!

iTrader: (2)

Super_nguyen, what's with the OEM bump stops in the rear? Didn't your GC upper mounts ALL come with the softer ones?

Dartanian

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by super_nguyen &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">for a minimal drop i would leave the heights set to what they are now in your pic, then if its too high i would then drop it, its easy to adjust though.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Alright, will do. Those upper mounts look pretty nice.

Thanks for the help guys. They will be going in tonight and I will update if I have any other questions.

94eg!

iTrader: (2)

You really only need upper mounts if your going to lower the car two inches or more. Even then you really only need them in the front (esspecially with stiff rear spring rates).

There is another FREE trick you could look into to help get back some shock travel in the front. You modify or remove the brake line bracket from the front shocks, and mount shock iteself lower in the damper forks. There is a really good post about 3/4 of the way down the first page of the "Koni shock install" thread at the top of this forum. Look for my second post with the quote from CRX Lee. It shows you a before & after picture too...

Again, you only need this if your lowering over 2 inches or more...

super_nguyen

they're not oem bumpstops, the 2 top hats in the rears were bought used.

Dartanian

I finished the front a little bit ago and took the car for a little drive around the block. They went on flawlessly without any issue and the ride is much improved, even with the springs stiffer than what I had. I need to drop it a little bit more since it is a little high (even for my taste), but the jack fits underneath it again.

Here are the pictures:

MaltBeer

When you put those together with the top hats did you use a thick washer and a thin washer that i think came with the koni's?

Dartanian

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by xmaltbeerxcp &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">When you put those together with the top hats did you use a thick washer and a thin washer that i think came with the koni's?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I just used the smaller of the two washers since I was not using the OEM dust covers. Is there something wrong with assembling them that way?

Understeer

How much suspension travel do you have with that ride height?

Once you're happy with your ride height, reset the bushings and get an alignment to set the toe to zero and set your camber with your adjustable arms. -2.0F and -1.5R is a good compromise.

Dartanian

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Understeer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How much suspension travel do you have with that ride height?

Once you're happy with your ride height, reset the bushings and get an alignment to set the toe to zero and set your camber with your adjustable arms. -2.0F and -1.5R is a good compromise.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I am not sure how much travel I have, but I have driven it around a bit and it seems to bottom out on the larger bumps, so it doesn't seem like much.

I have it about .25" higher than it was, so the alignment will wait a little bit. The tires are a little worn, so when those are replaced, I will get it aligned.

It is a nice setup, though. I am very happy with it.

RGoose18

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Das Schmoo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I am not sure how much travel I have, but I have driven it around a bit and it seems to bottom out on the larger bumps, so it doesn't seem like much.

I have it about .25" higher than it was, so the alignment will wait a little bit. The tires are a little worn, so when those are replaced, I will get it aligned.

It is a nice setup, though. I am very happy with it.</TD></TR></TABLE>

It bottoms out set at that high of a ride height?? You may want to get some upper mounts but I wouldn't think bottoming out would be an issue w/ that mild of a drop

Dartanian

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RGoose18 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

It bottoms out set at that high of a ride height?? You may want to get some upper mounts but I wouldn't think bottoming out would be an issue w/ that mild of a drop </TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah, that is what I was thinking. It is probably dropped 1.25"F, 1"R at this point and it will bottom out of the bump is large enough.

I am running the shocks at about half a turn from full stiffness to get rid of any extra bounciness and if it still bottoms out, I am going to raise it up a little bit more.

Luckily, it is a sleeper and it doesn't need to be slammed. Personally, I don't like slammed because I like fitting the jack underneath the front.

RGoose18

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Das Schmoo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Yeah, that is what I was thinking. It is probably dropped 1.25"F, 1"R at this point and it will bottom out of the bump is large enough.

I am running the shocks at about half a turn from full stiffness to get rid of any extra bounciness and if it still bottoms out, I am going to raise it up a little bit more.

Luckily, it is a sleeper and it doesn't need to be slammed. Personally, I don't like slammed because I like fitting the jack underneath the front. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Do you have a side profile pic of your car from like 15-20 ft back?? You sound like you're at the max drop (while still maintaining a decent ride) I'd like to see what that looks like.

Understeer

I am NOT surprised it bottoms out at that ride height. You have maybe 3/4" or less shock travel. I have the same setup with 400F/500R and the ride height is about 1/2" higher and it still bottoms out. I don't intend on spending $120 + $80 for an alignment just to lower it a bit and gain more travel.

Everyone recommends GC/Koni, but what they don't know is that you can only really lower it 1-1.5" fromt stock height, otherwise you're on the bumpstops. I would look into getting the upper mounts for the front...

Two flaws of this setup:

1. Since the shock/sleeves are not mated together, the more you lower, the less supsension travel you have (threaded shock body coilovers don't have this problem) unless you get them shortened.

2. 500lb springs maximum on OTS.

You really need to get them revalved and shortened if you're serious about not just a decent handling car, but great handling car.

RGoose18: Not sure how low you are, but I would definetely double check your suspension travel. I had my car lowered to the point where I had -2.4F camber and didn't realize I had no suspension travel whatsoever.

Dartanian

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RGoose18 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Do you have a side profile pic of your car from like 15-20 ft back?? You sound like you're at the max drop (while still maintaining a decent ride) I'd like to see what that looks like. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I am going out to take pictures right now. I will update with one in about 30 minutes or so.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Understeer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I am NOT surprised it bottoms out at that ride height. You have maybe 3/4" or less shock travel. I have the same setup with 400F/500R and the ride height is about 1/2" higher and it still bottoms out. I don't intend on spending $120 + $80 for an alignment just to lower it a bit and gain more travel.

Everyone recommends GC/Koni, but what they don't know is that you can only really lower it 1-1.5" fromt stock height, otherwise you're on the bumpstops. I would look into getting the upper mounts for the front...

Two flaws of this setup:

1. Since the shock/sleeves are not mated together, the more you lower, the less supsension travel you have (threaded shock body coilovers don't have this problem) unless you get them shortened.

2. 500lb springs maximum on OTS.

You really need to get them revalved and shortened if you're serious about not just a decent handling car, but great handling car.

RGoose18: Not sure how low you are, but I would definetely double check your suspension travel. I had my car lowered to the point where I had -2.4F camber and didn't realize I had no suspension travel whatsoever.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I wish I would have known this before I had purchased the setup so that I could have also bought the upper hats as well. This is really the first time I have heard about problems with suspension travel with the GC/Koni setup, but it does make sense once you get the springs/shocks assembled. I am probably going to raise it up even more because turning the stiffness up on the shocks helps for most of the bottoming out, but not driveways and speedbumps.

I would much rather get the top hats than revalving them. This is mainly a street setup. It won't see much competition, so it wouldn't be worth the money, IMO. In the end, I am probably going to just raise it up another 1/2" and leave it.

Dartanian

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RGoose18 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Do you have a side profile pic of your car from like 15-20 ft back?? You sound like you're at the max drop (while still maintaining a decent ride) I'd like to see what that looks like. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Here is a shot I just took. I am going to raise it probably .5" all around to avoid bottoming out as much as possible. It has a 1.5 finger gap in the front and 2 fingers in the rear presently.

Understeer

What is the measurement from the center of your wheel hub to the fender? Like the picture in this thread: https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=466450

Everyone has their own definition of finger gaps, plus your tire size of 205/55/15 isn't the correct stock size, so the gap is covered up more.