krazy one

im planing to buy some coilovers for daily use and track use (autocross/road racing). people told me when i buy coilovers, get higher spring rates in the front. but when i get them what do I dampen? since the higher spring rate in the front is higher, do i dampen the front softer? and the rear? ex: 10K in the front and 6 click down from stiffness, 8K in the rear and 4 click down from stiffness.

PIC Performance

Generally coilovers will come with higher rates in the front, as there is simply more weight in the front of the car. Both rebound and compression damping will generally be higher in the front as well, for the same. Having a higher rate spring in the rear when compared to the fronts will allow the car to rotate better than with the fronts being stiffer.
If the coilovers are fixed damping, then you are stuck with the damping (not dampening) that you are given, and cannot damp (not dampen) more or less than what you have. If the damping level is adjustable (either rebound, compression, or both) then the rule of thumb is that increasing the damping on one end of the car will cause that end to be "stiffer", as the damper will be more resistant to the oscillations of the spring. How many clicks/turns and in what direction will depend on the individual type of coilover. And there is no way to give a general "how much adjustment is good" due to there being too many variables; spring rate, desired handling characteristics, desired ride characteristics, range of adjustment, effectiveness of each adjustment, etc.

krazy one

thanks man! now for FF cars, whats the best dampening to use on autocrossin and Road racing? i know its all up to the driver but i want to know what people use.

Solracer

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by krazy one &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">thanks man! now for FF cars, whats the best dampening to use on autocrossin and Road racing? i know its all up to the driver but i want to know what people use.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Usually a higher rear rate to get the car to rotate.

krazy one

soo.. stiffer in the rear with a lower spring rate? ex: stiffer dampening, with 8K spring rate?

Setsuna F Seiei

check your PM's


Ive driven with the 10/8 + 22 mm sway bar and it's good for me as a beginner... Also driven with 10/12 but I don't recommend it for beginners esp. if daily driving

krazy one

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by krazy one &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">soo.. stiffer in the rear with a lower spring rate? ex: stiffer dampening, with 8K spring rate?</TD></TR></TABLE>

anyone know?

Setsuna F Seiei

what do you mean by stiffer in the rear with a lower spring rate? higher spring rate = stiffer

krazy one

so would i use stiffer dampening in the rear? or the front?

Red Balut

maybe this can help you out.
http://www.norcalcrx.org/tyson/coilover.html#04

AutoXer

Higher rear spring rate, and then adjust the shocks the shocks based upon conditions and track variations. It's an experience and feel type thing as to where to set the shocks.

If you're asking this question, you probably don't have a lot of track experience; and if you're not planning on doing it alot (every weekend) I would suggest not setting up your car as a track vehicle. It won't be pleasant on the street.

krazy one

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AutoXer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Higher rear spring rate, and then adjust the shocks the shocks based upon conditions and track variations. It's an experience and feel type thing as to where to set the shocks.

If you're asking this question, you probably don't have a lot of track experience; and if you're not planning on doing it alot (every weekend) I would suggest not setting up your car as a track vehicle. It won't be pleasant on the street.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

yes this is going to be my first time on the track. ok, so i got that you need higher spring rate in the rear understood now, but what about dampening? does dampening change the spring rate? i know on TEIN SS (I'm on a buget and already bought them), the spring rate is higher on the front, front: 392, rear: 168, so if i use that for autocross, do i click the front more to the left from the stiffest, and click the rear only a few times? (ex: front: 6 clicks from full stiff. rear: 4 clicks from full stiff).

AutoXer

Normally, suspensions have a higher springrate in the front, due to the weight of the engine, as well as being designed to understeer (as that is generally safer in an emergency situation on the road).

Changing the shock settings has nothing to do with the springrate. The first time I had adjustable shocks, I ran them in the 1/2 stiff position until I got used to the setup and handling, then started experimenting. If I were you, I'd just leave them alone for now.

krazy one

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AutoXer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Normally, suspensions have a higher springrate in the front, due to the weight of the engine, as well as being designed to understeer (as that is generally safer in an emergency situation on the road).

Changing the shock settings has nothing to do with the springrate. The first time I had adjustable shocks, I ran them in the 1/2 stiff position until I got used to the setup and handling, then started experimenting. If I were you, I'd just leave them alone for now.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

wow I'm starting to understand. thanks a bunch man
so lets say that I run 600lbs spring rate in the front and 1000lbs spring rate in the rear, what do I do to the dampening? do I dampen the front and rear to be equal stiffness? or do I still have the rear stiffer than the front? thanks again everyone!

Setsuna F Seiei

a good place to start is around the 350/450-450/550 range IMO, get a 22mm rear bar, don't worry about the front, and call it a day. Start with those rates and see how you like it driven on the street and in the track. Worry about dialing in damping, alignment, tires psi later. You want to have a controlled oversteer on an ff platform.

PIC Performance

Your damping level is up to you, that is the advantage of having adjustable damping. If there was a "right" level to set it to, then you would not need adjustable damping at all.
There is a combination for every situation and every driver, you just need to play around with the settings to find what works for you.

AutoXer

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by krazy one &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
wow I'm starting to understand. thanks a bunch man
so lets say that I run 600lbs spring rate in the front and 1000lbs spring rate in the rear, </TD></TR></TABLE>

Is that what you bought? That's a very agressive (and scary) setup. I ran a 700/800 setup once, and I spun out on track when I hit a peice of vinyl that fell off a competitors car. You really should be running whatever comes standard off the shelf for now.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by krazy one &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I dampen the front and rear to be equal stiffness? or do I still have the rear stiffer than the front? </TD></TR></TABLE>

Being a research engineer, I'm a big fan of changing one thing at a time to get a good result. You don't know the feel of your new setup yet, or how the car is supposed to feel for optimum performance. Run it at half stiff front and rear for a season or two. Then go to a test and tune day and start experimenting to see how changing the damping will effect the cars dynamics.

Everyone will be telling you alot of things about setups and how to run the shocks; but if they're not a proven competitor (trophy / class winner) they probably don't know what they're talking about. You'll be hard pressed to tell a real difference in performance on the street by changing your shocks settings in most cases. And anyone who judges performance differences by their onramp speeds should be immediately dismissed.

Red Balut

wow AutoXer is the man! reading all this helped me out! haha good stuff!
but to help, i have the tein ss suspension (without the pillowball mounts) and i run with stiffer in the rear and softer in the front, since the stock tein ss spring rates are higher in the front, that is why im using this set up. stiffening up the rear reduces some of the understeer.

Oversteer: Stiffen rear or soften front.
Understeer: Soften rear or Stiffen front.

krazy one

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Red Balut &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Oversteer: Stiffen rear or soften front.
Understeer: Soften rear or Stiffen front. </TD></TR></TABLE>

i think i seen that from a post in a forum i made awhile back. thanks again guys!