Kusai.Nihonjin.Desu

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Justin Jones &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

search for pictures of an ITR LCA. You'll see that the shock mounts are completely different. If you have ITR application rear shocks, you need ITR LCAs, if you don't have ITR style shocks, you can't use ITR rear arms. it's as simple as that.

difference in performance? non-existent.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I was aware of the fitment.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Justin Jones &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
difference in performance? non-existent.</TD></TR></TABLE>

That's all I needed to know.

MFactory

Nihonjin.Desu: You have pm

moridin2004

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mlrmotorsports &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Function 7 is bling garbage!

I would say PIC race version, also the 2nd gen Skunk2 are good also.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Can you substantiate the Function7 argument with any evidence?


Modified by moridin2004 at 7:33 PM 2/5/2008

spcrxracer

iTrader: (1)

Ooo, custom! Keep us posted!

Otherwise I say clean up the OEM LCAs

CRX Lee

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MFactory &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">A lot of Koni's shocks are made in Taiwan
</TD></TR></TABLE>
You are incorrect, there are NO KONIs made in Taiwan at all. KONI Shocks are currently only made in Holland. In the past there were some small quantities made in France and the US from Dutch made components. In the future there will be a factory in China to make KONI railway shocks solely for the growing Chinese railway industry but no car or motorsports shocks. Nothing in Taiwan or any of the rest of Asia, Eastern Europe, India, etc. like a large number of other shock brands are. The racing shocks custom assembled in the US are built from components made almost exclusively in Holland as well.

It is amazing how quickly Internet mis-information can travel.

MFactory

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CRX Lee &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
You are incorrect, there are NO KONIs made in Taiwan at all. KONI Shocks are currently only made in Holland. In the past there were some small quantities made in France and the US from Dutch made components. In the future there will be a factory in China to make KONI railway shocks solely for the growing Chinese railway industry but no car or motorsports shocks. Nothing in Taiwan or any of the rest of Asia, Eastern Europe, India, etc. like a large number of other shock brands are. The racing shocks custom assembled in the US are built from components made almost exclusively in Holland as well.

It is amazing how quickly Internet mis-information can travel.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thank you for informing me. I really don't have a clue

Targa250R

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MFactory &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Thank you for informing me. I really don't have a clue </TD></TR></TABLE>

MFactory

It's chinese new year and I've got a mega hangover, my apologies

Besides, it's a never-ending debate that I don't want to get involved in

Xian

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MFactory &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It's chinese new year and I've got a mega hangover, my apologies

Besides, it's a never-ending debate that I don't want to get involved in </TD></TR></TABLE>

Seems like you intentionally involved yourself in commenting about products that you either didn't know and assumed a country of origin b/c it was advantageous to you to do so or you did know the correct info but figured you wouldn't get called out on your mis-information. Either option is highly questionable, imo.

Christian

MFactory

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Xian &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Seems like you intentionally involved yourself in commenting about products that you either didn't know and assumed a country of origin b/c it was advantageous to you to do so or you did know the correct info but figured you wouldn't get called out on your mis-information. Either option is highly questionable, imo.

Christian</TD></TR></TABLE>

My apologies

Austin

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MFactory &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It's chinese new year and I've got a mega hangover, my apologies

Besides, it's a never-ending debate that I don't want to get involved in </TD></TR></TABLE>

I think that it's no longer a "never-ending debate" if you take a look at the profile for CRX Lee ;-), that is for the origin of the KONI products, not sure about the rest of the companies out there.

MFactory

I was mis-informed, my bad, and I apologise

mormonboy

this is the best LCA discussion thread.

i still say skunk2, function7, srr purple spherical lca, and mfactory spherical lca's rank among the better quality/build aftermarket ones you can get IF your looking to purchase some.

<FONT SIZE="1">Edited for language content 2/8/2008 by Targa250R</FONT>

Function7

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jdm_j03 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

F7 is not bling garbage. I'm rocking those, it was between that or PIC's race version. But PICs race version did not have polyurethane. They used metal bushings which break easier, wear faster and and more a pain in the *** if you live anywhere it snows. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Thanks for the props.

Our arms were designed for the track first - street-use was 2nd in our priority. All the arms we manufacture go through extensive FEA analysis (some of you here have seen our FEA work....) followed by extended on-track testing/abuse. We designed our poly bushings to mimic spherical bushings as much as possible, which resulted in the best of both worlds in terms of wear resistance, and motion control (i.e. minimize binding).

We offer a lifetime warranty on all our arms. If they ever fail, we will replace them, and this includes the poly bushings (made to our spec by ES).

-A

PIC Performance

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jdm_j03 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

F7 is not bling garbage. I'm rocking those, it was between that or PIC's race version. But PICs race version did not have polyurethane. They used metal bushings which break easier, wear faster and and more a pain in the *** if you live anywhere it snows. </TD></TR></TABLE>

They are spherical bearings, not metal bushings. I'd like to see some evidence of our sphericals breaking more easily and wearing more quickly than polyurethane, and also what makes them a pain in the *** if you live where it snows?

moridin2004

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PIC Performance &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

They are spherical bearings, not metal bushings. I'd like to see some evidence of our sphericals breaking more easily and wearing more quickly than polyurethane, and also what makes them a pain in the *** if you live where it snows? </TD></TR></TABLE>

Well, I'd pretty much assume that salty grime is a big no-no for any spherical bearing. Law of common sense proves it.

EDIT: I retracted my statement about bearings with dust boots after recalling what happens to them at Miller Motorsports Park.


Modified by moridin2004 at 5:42 AM 2/15/2008


Modified by moridin2004 at 5:44 AM 2/15/2008

Justin Jones

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Function7 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Thanks for the props.

Our arms were designed for the track first - street-use was 2nd in our priority. All the arms we manufacture go through extensive FEA analysis (some of you here have seen our FEA work....) followed by extended on-track testing/abuse. We designed our poly bushings to mimic spherical bushings as much as possible, which resulted in the best of both worlds in terms of wear resistance, and motion control (i.e. minimize binding).

We offer a lifetime warranty on all our arms. If they ever fail, we will replace them, and this includes the poly bushings (made to our spec by ES).

-A</TD></TR></TABLE>

It's too bad you dont offer a spherical bearing option with your arms. If you did, I would have totally bought a set.

PIC Performance

You might consider taking a look at what PIC actually offers before making your assumptions.

moridin2004

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PIC Performance &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You might consider taking a look at what PIC actually offers before making your assumptions. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I know what you guys offer. Checked it out several times on your website... which you should add a direct link to in your signature if possible. It's not difficult to type it in, but I'm sure more people would check out what you have.

I have a bit of race experience (not driving... a few years) with 996 and 997 RSR's. I know how often bearings go out in those suspension pieces (they don't last a full season) and they are not low quality items by any means. That's only on a race track, not the roads of Wisconsin or some other area where it snows.

While it does seem that PIC is making a concerted effort to bring some quality products to the table, I can't help but look at your lower control arms and not think they didn't come from the same Taiwanese factory that makes Omni Power crap. Maybe they aren't, but they look oddly familiar.

On the other hand, I look at the Function 7 stuff and it looks to be engineered to a whole different level.

PIC Performance

They make look similar, but you should probably realize that it is not appearance that affects performance. If someone is buying LCA's on looks alone, they probably would not be shopping for the RR LCA's in the first place.

Someone who is shopping the RR LCA's would most likely get past the fact that there are only so many ways one can design a Civic rear LCA while maintaining the same function, and that what matters is the bushings. I would say the same people would be shopping the Function 7's.

Since our bearings do have dust boots, I guess they are a totally different animal than the bearings run on your 996's and 997 RSR's.

moridin2004

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PIC Performance &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">They make look similar, but you should probably realize that it is not appearance that affects performance. If someone is buying LCA's on looks alone, they probably would not be shopping for the RR LCA's in the first place.

Someone who is shopping the RR LCA's would most likely get past the fact that there are only so many ways one can design a Civic rear LCA while maintaining the same function, and that what matters is the bushings. I would say the same people would be shopping the Function 7's.

Since our bearings do have dust boots, I guess they are a totally different animal than the bearings run on your 996's and 997 RSR's. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Not exactly my point about looks. Guess there is some engineering aspect of a star shaped hole that I know nothing about, thus the comment about them being oddly similar to the old Omni Powers. Actually, on that thought, who manufactures your arms and what makes them better? What about bearings? How long has the company been doing it? What about you? What is your engineering background?

Coincidentally, I am someone in the market for lightweight replacement for my rear LCA's. And, actually, buying based on looks (from an engineering aspect, not the "bling" factor) is quite important. I don't have numbers for what arms are torsionally stronger, what bushings/bearings last longer, etc... so I have to make an educated guess.

MFactory

He never said they were better, he was only asking why jdm_j03 thought that sphericals break more easily and wear more quickly than PU.

Rubber vs PU vs Bearings is another one of those never-ending debates, just like Made in Country is

moridin2004

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MFactory &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">He never said they were better, he was only asking why jdm_j03 thought that sphericals break more easily and wear more quickly than PU.

Rubber vs PU vs Bearings is another one of those never-ending debates, just like Made in Country is </TD></TR></TABLE>

He was right about the snow. Ever been to Miller Motorsports Park and see what salt does to bearings, even ones with dust boots?

MFactory

Yup, I know what it does and I'm certain PIC knows as well

Function7

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Justin Jones &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

It's too bad you dont offer a spherical bearing option with your arms. If you did, I would have totally bought a set.</TD></TR></TABLE>

We actually have played around with them during our prototyping/testing/track-abuse and came to the conclusion that poly ended up performing just as well, costs less (the high quality sphericals we tested with cost $$$$$) and on top of that poly lasted longer and performed consistently over an extended period.

....which leads to us being able to offer a lifetime warranty on our arms.

So, from a manufacturer standpoint, you can see that it's less of a headache for us and at the same time keeping our customers happy, by going the path we did.


-A