bluebomber

iTrader: (2)

I was just wondering how you guys felt about a 3 point front strut bar that mounts to the shock towers and firewall, compared to a 2 point that only bolts to the shock towers. This is obviously for cars that did not come stock with a 3 point strut bar.

Is it safe to run a 3 point on a car that's your DD? I ask because I was reading about 3 point strut bars eliminating your crumple zones and bending your firewall, even in a small accident. Should I opt for a 2 point solid bar instead, or is the extra rigidity of a 3 point worth the added risk?

bluebomber

iTrader: (2)

I'm still curious about this, in case anyone wants to comment.

siblues

iTrader: (1)

My guess is that the bar will move a bit under normal use.I also am under the impression that if you get into an accident bad enough to bend a frame rail enough for the bar to bend or damage the firewall that will be the least of your worries but I too am going to check back in this thread to see if anyone has first hand experience.

PatrickGSR94

iTrader: (1)

Considering that there are cars that have 3-point bars stock, I wouldn't say that 3-point bars are totally terrible.

Also when you consider that a 3-point bar on a car that didn't come with one will bump you up to a higher competition class in SCCA Solo-II autocross, they must be at least somewhat more effective than 2-point bars.

Libertariat

It's hard to imagine the 3rd point being useless.

Tyson

its only useful if the 3rd point it "braces" to is actually a firm anchor.

the firewall on a honda is not a firm anchor point. a 3pt would be more to brace the firewall, than the other way around... so its fairly useless.

fender braces would be more effective in what the 3rd point is trying to accomplish.

Libertariat

That makes sense. The mounting points do go into very thin areas as well.

I'm pretty partial to the funky neuspeed brace.

PreyStayShun

Forgive my idiocy...just trying to get my facts straight, since I seem to want an front strut bar so bad (don't ask why):

What you guys are essentially saying is that a 2 point bar has the same affect as a three point front strut tower bar since it fastens to a $hitty thin layer of sheet metal in the fire wall??? Perfectly logical, why would I not think of this

From what I seem to understand an upper strut tower has a minimal effect on a cars body roll, correct?

I was so set on thinking a three point bar is the way to go???

Libertariat

Patrick says that bars like the Neuspeed are arguably the best because they mount into the UCAs or something. Not exactly sure. But it's one of the few bars that mounts like that.

cetcivic

thats a passwordjdm myth...they want u to buy their stuff

PreyStayShun

Seems to make sense...secures in the right places. "Honda / Acura Applications will bolt to the upper control arm bolts in the engine bay." Price isn't bad... found one new for $135 shipped. This makes perfect sense to me I suppose:


As opposed to:

Libertariat

Link?

PreyStayShun

I owe an apology, Google shopping said shipping was free but then when i clicked on the link shipping is only free on orders os $150+... http://shop.group5motorsport.com/i-168582.aspx

These guys are doing it for $127+Shipping...however orders over $100 are subject to $10 off. I would imagine after checking out this site would end up right around $135
http://www.customcarscentral.com/neu...a--94-01-.html

TunerN00b

Incorrect.

A strut bar (which is a terrible name for this part on most of our cars), upper or lower, has no affect on body roll.

They can only affect chassis deformation.

My stock front shock tower brace is notched like the red one pictured above to clear GC extended upper shock mounts. Considering that I can't tell the difference while autocrossing the car with it there or not, I think the only reason I keep it on the car is because I lack storage space for it off the car.

Libertariat

Then it's settled, H BRACE!!

PreyStayShun

On a car...wouldn't chassis deformation = flex to a certain extent? If the chassis is reinforced from flex (with a bar such as the Neuspeed bar) wouldn't that have at least somewhat of an impact on body roll? PS- Not trying to beat a dead horse by any means...if I'm being an idiot just let me know. This previous sentence is only my assumption, which is most likely incorrect!

PatrickGSR94

iTrader: (1)

A more correct term would be shock tower brace. The Neuspeed bar is pretty much the only one I've ever seen that actually directly braces and ties together the upper control arm mounting bolts. Some call it a 4-point bar. However this is only on 92-95 Civic and 94-01 Integra applications (not sure about Accords or other Hondas). Since the 96-00 Civic's UCA bolts attach to the sides of the shock towers, the 96-00 Civic Neuspeed bar application (picture above) mounts to the shock's upper mount bolts like most other bars.

The OEM brace and a few other aftermarket braces attach to the OEM studs (or studs that you add) outboard of the shock mounts, while most aftermarket braces attach to the upper shock mounts. In theory the one attaching to the UCA bolts should be the most effective, but in reality they're really all about the same, however effective or ineffective it may be, due to the close proximity in the sheet metal of all mount options.

And no, there will not be any effect whatsoever on body roll from a shock tower brace. The brace only serves to prevent lateral movement of the upper shock towers with respect to each other during hard cornering, which can prevent unwanted changes to the front wheels' camber curves while cornering. But the body roll itself will still be the same unless you change out springs, roll bars, tires, etc.

PreyStayShun

Beautiful, now I understand. I love HT sometimes...

OP- Sorry to thread jack!

JDM_EK_JOE

a basic ctr or SiR strut bar is suffecient enough without spending ridiculous amounts of money Patrick? or do other brands make that much more of a difference? what brand would you recommend?

edited:

sufficient enough meaning for circuit, auto x etc, or a 3 point is better

abs0Lut

2 point will be sufficient, the 3 point strut bars are usually bought by hardparkers cause they look sweet, not saying they're any worse but you won't notice a difference.

Tyson

im a fan of the neuspeed brace. doesnt have to mount to the actual upper arm anchor bolts or shocks or whatever. that whole area is pretty well reinforced, a few inches away of several sheets of metal is not going to make a difference in how it works. not in our cars at least.

the point is just to reinforce and provide a load path for forces from one side of the engine bay to the other. no different than what a crossmember does.

PatrickGSR94

iTrader: (1)

Pretty much this. I personally like to keep it OEM, and if you have the studs on the shock towers already, go with an OEM GS-R/del Sol VTEC/ITR/etc. brace.

Tyson

Btw I will have to say the passwrodjdm style is probably the most effective and simplest design. Its boxed around the shock tower and has a large cross section bar going across.

I'm not saying it justifies the cost, but if I were to make one, that's how I'd do it.

kristo

Readers note that this Neuspeed design isn't available from Neuspeed for the EK (as Patrick mentioned), however the OE EK struts āre mounted in this fashion.

Note that the CTR/EK9 OE strut is thicker than the SI/EK4, maybe this also applies to Del Sol/EG SI/ITR struts.

I'd go for ESP:

PatrickGSR94

iTrader: (1)

Yes the CTR/ITR brace is designed differently than the del Sol/Si/GS-R brace. While the ITR brace seems more rigid (strong extruded aluminum bar), it does have 2 bolt points on each end where the aluminum bar bolts to the steel end brackets, which then bolts to the shock tower. The del Sol/Si/GS-R brace is a steel tube welded to steel end brackets, with no bolts on the bar itself. So really who's to say which one is better? You would some how have to be able to measure the bar's deflection during high lateral G-force maneuvers to tell for sure.