OH Snap

The title is generic on purpose. I do not want to make this a "which chassis/combo is better" thread, but I'd like to know....

*Do any of you guys/gals run the H22 motor in your Civic, and use it primarily for road/auto X racing?

*Besides the obvious low end toque, are there any other benefits when compared to the other motors?

I've searched around the site a bit and found several Preludes racing, and I seen a H2B hatch on the track somewhere on the interwebs, but having a bit of trouble finding info on H swapped Civics, built with the circuit in mind. Reason Im asking, is because I've put together several Civics, and somehow find comfort in the H22. But as I'm getting older, Im looking to try road/auto x and with just a few runs in my H swapped hatch last year, it did not seem as "nimble" if that makes sense.

Since then I've sold the hatch back, but I am looking to put together another car (mild, nothing crazy) and I am considering falling back on the old faithful (B series). Just figured I'd ask, to see if maybe I was do something wrong. And if anyone else was using the H and had success with it in road racing.

Sorry for rant, but questions are above with asterisk.


Thanks,

dirty19

iTrader: (1)

None come to mind.... we do have a few preludes on the west coast though.
I think the H is a little too heavy to running in a hatch for circuit use. Just my .02
Im not saying it cant be done and made to work but its not going to be an easy car to find the set up on.
Not only would you have to run a heavier spring up front to try and balance the car,but just the weight in general would make the car a handful to drive.

OH Snap

Yea, that's what I was thinking. My hatch was a bit awkward around corners. It just...seemed sloppy. Now given it was'nt any crazy suspension, more of a fun runner (Tein, GsR brakes, etc.). I was just hoping maybe one or two individuals tried an H/civic combo on the circuit, and whether or not they were successful.

I mean I think I've even seen a J series CRX hitting the circuit, online. To me that would be overkill lol.

92HatchHybrid

iTrader: (1)

It would be just fine. I believe it is around 80? lbs heavier give or take. A turbo kit adds alot of weight on its own as well. I had an H22 hatch and thought the car was great as far as power band.

All it would take is proper spring setup and car would be great. H series have just low end grunt and obviously tq that would help out alot I feel.

redlinetuning

It really depends on the class you want to run in. There was an H22 civic in our region that was doing very well. But for the most part, the H22 engine isn't much heavier, so like already mentioned, dialing in the suspension components is a key factor.

2fast4u831

I have an h2b in my 1994 civic hatch. I have been tracking it since 08'. The h22 is only 40-60lbs heavier than a b18c engine. benefits are; cheaper in price than b-series and more power than b-series. Just choose the correct spring rates/sway bars so that the car can rotate well.

Hawnduh_Ownr

Simply read the NASA rules here: https://www.nasaproracing.com/rules

Then build a car with maximum potential within those constraints.

OH Snap

Awesome feedback guys. So it seems dialing in suspension is key.

Hawnduh Ownr, I'm sorry if I gave the wrong impression...Im just looking to build a "fun" car that I can use in exhibition events (pay and play) and still take to work the next day. Not looking to build a full competition car but thank you for the NASA info!

SlowB16

I have an eg hatch with an h2b setup that I use mostly for track days. It seems to do pretty well around the track and I don't have any complaints. The thing I like about the h-motors is that they make a lot of power and are cheap if and when you break one. A good quality used h22 is around a grand which is way less than you'll have to spend on a replacement b series that can make the same power. I was originally planning to go with a type r motor but the replacement costmade me go with the H.

I made 220hp at the wheels with an intake, exhaust, throttle body and some intakeanifold porting. Pretty good bang for your buck IMO. My build thread is on here somewhere.

Also like you mentioned the extra torque is awesome at the track and for daily driving.

Some photos from a lapping day I did yesterday.

http://cwhitephoto.zenfolio.com/p136085887/h1f02101b

http://cwhitephoto.zenfolio.com/p136085887/h13903858

http://cwhitephoto.zenfolio.com/p136085887/h3a4b966d

http://cwhitephoto.zenfolio.com/p136085887/h2533fc69

http://cwhitephoto.zenfolio.com/p136085887/h17bb7623

SlowB16

The h motor is great for a daily driver.

OH Snap

SlowB16. Your car is the definition of less is more - very clean looking.

I'm also glad to hear some people running the H22. Question for SlowB16 and 2fast4u...

What B series trannys are you guys running?

2fast4u831

B16 with 4.9 final drive. I am also running 17" wheels and a big brake kit.

ecko_3420

iTrader: (1)

Def a dialed in suspension will negate bad wffects of the slight weight that is gain with the h motor. I just meet a guys with a ek hatch with a h2b with itr tranny at buttonwillow doing a 2:08 lap time on azenis. 240 ho and 180lbs of torque.. Ill take it!

2fast4u831

He has 200whp. Ismael was there with his red ek hatch. He needs track tires to go a bit faster. Is this him?

SlowB16

Thanks for the comment. That's a roller paint job baby!

I'm running a b16 tranny with mfactory LSD and syncrotech carbon syncros....spendy little bugger but has treated me well so far. I think something with slightly longer gears would be better because the h22 doesn't need to rev like the b16 but it works pretty well regardless.

2fast your car is mean looking!

ecko_3420

iTrader: (1)

Yes sir thats him.. My mistake on the hp...def was impressed on the driver and car set up.

STN_Pat

Once you've worked around installing oil pan baffles (custom, but easy), install a manual t belt tensionner...you'll very soon forget any B series or its negligible weight advantage.

Stock H23A bluetop, intake, 2.5 inch exhaust, (stock bent exhaust manifold), 212whp 189wtq ? Paired with a 4.78 transmission...you'll never look back, not even for a K (money wise).

hungrygreen_gsr

A good friend of mine made the same decision for his del sol. I wondered why he didn't go B or K for the money, but he showed me this graph (although granted every motor is different) and pointed out the cost savings I fully understood his reasoning.

SlowB16

Yep, K power for a fraction of the price. Also once again replacement motors are way cheaper.

mattbatson

I've been dreaming of an h22 in my eg hatch for a while now...this thread reinforces that plan of action...
my 09 civic si makes 200hp and 140ft lbs and weighs 2900 and change...

a 200hp and 180ft lb h22 in my 2300 lb eg should be pretty impressive

and I didn't know about the baffles in oil pan requirement, or manual t belt tensioner....great to know

hungrygreen_gsr

Indeed. With F and H series being interchangeable and being sold in the hundred millions, it's easy to find a replacement if anything were to

For the cost to reward stand point you can't go wrong.

hungrygreen_gsr

Being that I'm new to the world of H series engines, could anyone here explain why most swap out to a manual tensioner? Is the auto version inferior in design and application, or are there gains from a performance stand point for making the switch?

SlowB16

I don't have the pan baffled and haven't had an issue so far. I just add an extra half quart of oil and have a low pressure warning light wired to my oil pressure gauge. Doesn't mean I shouldn't have one though.

Sccacivic1997

iTrader: (2)

I would never run a h22 in stu though. It wouldn't be worth it. K before h in stl and stu.

slimbo

I have an EK1 hatch with a stock H22A and H2B bell housing adapter and S80 gearbox.
Having had several B-series equipped Hondas before, and definitely prefer the H - so far.

I suspect I'd need to try driving a B-series equipped EK back-to-back to be able to differentiate between the two setups in terms of corner speed, braking and the ability to change direction. In any case, seat of the pants and memory tells me there is nothing in it.

Ignoring the gearing for the moment, the transient throttle response and mid-range torque & power is excellent. I've found that I'm keeping the same corner entry speeds as previous setups with better mid-corner and exit speeds thanks to the response.

The weakness in the combination for my track of choice is the transmission. I found the 4.7 FD to be a little too short, needing 5th gear on what is a very short main straight, and needing to short shift to 4th through several corners where I'd have preferred to hang on through 3rd. The car certainly has enough low to mid-range torque to get away with a 4.4 FD IMO. This is pretty specific to the track I usually go to though.

I'm going to swap it out for the next session and see how it goes.