0MOTORVATIONS

iTrader: (1)

Yes, internally the B18C1 is "BONE STOCK"... and it IS a US engine, not a JDM B18C Spec G. The only mods (besides the previously mentioned LS crank pulley) are a Skunk2 Mega Power header, AEBS (Professional Products) Typhoon intake manifold, Deatschwerks 750's, Hondata s300 and 4-bar MAP, AEM fpr and a custom cat-back system... and the cat-back is potentially suspect. It is crush bent, so there are a few turns/corners where the pipe is significantly smaller than 2.5" inside diameter.

I do have graphs in my possession... one of the HP/Torque and A/F values by itself and another with his old JRSC overlaid for comparison. Trouble is I just got a new desktop, and I can't seem to get them to scan yet. Must be a software issue... I am working on it gang and I will get them up as soon as I figure out how.

I am VERY impressed with how this package turned out... motivating me even more to get mine finished. More to come for sure.

crxgtf

Is this what you're looking for?

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iTrader: (1)

YES !!! That would be the one. Thank you Jerry. Ok H/T fans... there it is. Solid results... no bias... no tricks... all in a basic, very repeatable package.

wunfstgsr

Great power gain! what was the boost level?

0MOTORVATIONS

iTrader: (1)

Wunfstgsr, maximum boost right at redline was 14.4 psi. Obviously, it is a linear crawl from about 3 psi @ 3000 rpm up to 14ish at redline.

By the way, do you happen to have a graph of your Pro Charger kit @ 6 psi ??? Or even the higher boost levels (10-12psi) that you spoke of two months ago ??? It would be interesting to compare graph shape between the KW results and yours.

wunfstgsr

Heres a comparison of my JRSC LHT setup that made 285hp @12 psi compared to the same motor but with the Pro charger that made 275hp @6 psi

LHT JRSC setup 285 HP @12 psi!






Pro charger setup 275 HP @ 6psi!







Yes im very pleased with the Pro charger over my LHT JRSC setup i had! here is my post previuosly added for those who were asking for dyno comparisons the pro charger made more power on less boost on the same motor! and with the pulley upgrade from 6psi to 9psi i was making at least 4-5 psi as earlie as 2-3k rpm! compared to to the 6 psi it made at redline! the motor feels insane with the Pro charger compared to my lht setup, i like the LHT setup but even with the LHT manifold power falls off after a few pulls from heat soak and theres not much top end where as with 9psi on the Pro charger i had lots of low and mid and especially top end. the new setup im working on will deff make 350+WHP at 10-12PSI. click here for the build thread,

https://honda-tech.com/forums/showth...556604&page=16


Heres how she sits as of now recent motor upgrades include a fully ported and polished Type R head, Skunk2 Tuner 2 cams, Skunk2 Ultra street manifold, and 74mm throttle body, Will install my ID 1000cc injectors and hondata S300 and retune with 12-15psi within next month. I would like to compare my results with the crafts work blower soon as well. Id like to use one of the crafts work blowers and do a pull with that blower on my current setup to compare with the pro charger then id have a comparison with the JRSC/ ATI Pro charger/ and Crafts Works SC on a mild built B series.

t3gav

What compression ratio are you running on the pro charger build?

wunfstgsr

Stock USDM Type R short block,

Displacement: 1,797 cc (109.7 cu in)
Compression: 10.6:1
Bore: 81 mm (3.2 in)
Stroke: 87.2 mm (3.4 in)
Rod Length: 137.9 mm (5.4 in)
Rod/Stroke Ratio: 1.58

Black R

I'm really interested in the gains below 4k rpm.

It's hard to compare.

What's better from 2k to 4k?

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iTrader: (1)

Black R, the results from crxgtf's dyno graph above show about a 10-12 WHP and 15-20 lb/ft. Torque advantage to the JRSC over the Kraftwerks kit between say 2500 and 4000 rpm... the question is why do you find that particular rpm range important ??? I can't think of any real-world scenarios where that would be utilized.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

I can see why this question was asked.. Its because some people are looking for off-corner acceleration in an autoX or short circuit course environment. That 2500-6000rpm range is an important spot for smaller displacement engines.

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iTrader: (1)

Shodan, I would think that if you are exiting a corner at 2500 rpm, you are in the wrong gear... like one gear too tall. It would seem optimum to keep the engine at higher rpm simply to increase VE, not to mention that the shorter gear would increase your torque multiplier giving you MORE off-corner acceleration. I could see how this may be difficult in short autoX tracks... but again, it would still seem preferable mechanically to drop one gear and rev the car a little higher as long as the terminal velocities would allow it and you don't have to shift up.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

You actually need second for that rpm in some courses. 1st can't be too long, as you'll easily go into an understeer condition going back down towards first, and throttle control will be dicey with traction.. Just telling you as a driver on the shorter courses with this.... It seems his concern is a valid one.

Just sayin' he's not crazy to ask is all.

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iTrader: (1)

I never meant to suggest that this was a crazy or silly question, on the contrary, I have no practical experience with that type or racing, so I merely was attempting to understand some basic operating parameters that would support the question asked. Your response has helped enlighten me.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

No worries.... Just making sure you knew that this rpm range is important.

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iTrader: (1)

I do now... thank you.

crxgtf

Tall gear help make green driver "smooth" Obiwan Boostmaster!

wunfstgsr

Seems allot of the complaint with centrifugal blowers is the boost rises with rpm, well i wanted to share an idea i plan to use for my Pro charger which is a boost bleed valve which allows me to use a smaller pulley to create more boost at a lower rpm while still retaining the desired boost at redline, so i will use a pulley that would make 20 psi at redline but the valve will bleed off boost when it reaches 12 psi but i get the advantage of having more boost earlier in the rpm band so more low and mid range. Imagine your centrifugal supercharger comes in now at 3500 rpm and your red-line is 6500 rpm. That's 3000 rpm's of useable boost. But now, with a BLV installed, you could change your drive pulleys to bring the boost in at 2500 rpm and simply bleed-off the over-boost at the top end. Now you have 4000 rpm's of useable boost!

http://www.928motorsports.com/parts/...mitervalve.php

Lonewolf1983

thats fine, provided you're not spinning the charger beyond its rpm range

JRCivic1

Yes, over spinning any belt driven supercharger has consequences. This idea requires an over-spin situation, and in the case of the Rotrex, this IS harmful to the blower. The Vortex and ProCharger units have upper limits as well... verify those with the manufacturer before making your pulley choices.

Black R

My application is autox (solo2), and I frequently end up at under 4k rpm in 2nd and 3rd gear.

It's not practical to downshift, as then you immediately have to upshift, so that costs you 2 seconds - which is an eternity on a 50 second course.

I've won my class by thousandths of a second before, so any time saved is valuable.

Renegade

Do you have any Intake Temp numbers on your JRSC vs Kraftwerks?

I have the LHT JRSC in my ITR, and do not see more than 180 on intake temp pushing 260hp/160tq.

I am curious what the intake temps look like for the Kraftwersks kit and also on the intercooler setup you are using.

Thanks

wunfstgsr

<<<@!1!@>>>

If your referring to me, no i never logged IAT's with either of my setups, Im not using a kraftswork setup its a ATI Pro charger kit.

But i can tell you after a few freeway pulls i noticed a good power loss from heat soak with my LHT JRSC setup on my ITR with 285hp @12 psi. Even during the dyno after a few dyno pulls i touched the LHT manifold and it was pretty warm still not as hot as the original JRSC manifold got during that dyno but it was kind of hot to the touch and I was also using a hondata thermal gasket as well.

Now when i tuned the Pro charger i touched the blower after the last pull and it was cool! actually didn't have any heat to it at all which was amazing! And i could do freeway pulls all day and there was never any power loss from heat soak! so I'm sure it has much less iat's as the JRSC, for one the kit uses a front mount intercooler which helps out allot as well as the blower position. Check this video from pro charger below.

Sorry not knocking on the kraftworks I'm sure its very efficient but iv had this Procharger kit for a few years now and in my quest for a better supercharger the kraftworks kit was not out and the Pro charger seemed to be the best for my application and still has allot of better features as its competitors such as a carb approved system, self contained oiling, cool stream location, and comes intercooled.

JRCivic1

A recent datalog I analyzed from a Kraftwerks powered stock B18C1 showed a maximum IAT reading of 139'F during a 30 minute road-race session at Barbers Motorsports Raceway (2.4 mile 17 turn track) on a 93'F day.

My experience has been that under cruise conditions, IAT's never exceed 25'F above ambient temp on any given day with no noticeable increase even with short full throttle bursts during operation.

Obviously, this is all predicated on selecting a properly sized intercooler to maximize cooling efficiency.

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iTrader: (1)

Update: I haven't posted in a while, and even though I don't have anything really juicy to add at this point (like dyno results), here is what I can present.

When I dis-assembled my old engine, I discovered far more damage internally than I had expected. I knew that one (or more) of the sleeves had dropped, so replacing the block was already in the plan. What I didn't anticipate was that the block damage allowed the water jacket to fill all four cylinder columns with distilled water... destroying the cylinder head and seizing the rotating assembly in the process. Everything was rusted solid together from sitting for nearly three years waiting for the time and products to repair it. Attempting to free it to get my Titanium rods out damaged the snout of the crank, so a new cylinder head and crankshaft had to be fitted into the mix. The new crankshaft has been lightened and balanced and the cylinder head is currently at 4Piston getting an "Outlaw" make-over. I hope to get it back before Thanksgiving. After that, I will be building almost immediately. I will probably create a build thread as well so that this thread isn't Hijacked by my special build, since the spirit of this thread is really more about the Kraftwerks kit on a stock engine... and what one can expect in a bolt-on application. Most importantly, you all will know the results here first... I promise.