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Old 01-05-2012, 07:17 AM   #1
motegicivic
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Default Used engines vs Rebuilt

96 Civic EX

Not talking swaps, just replacing, esp a standard d16y8, since a lot of engines sites do not even have them listed.

How come no one mentions rebuilt engines vs used?

I know rebuilt will cost more, but at least you will get some kind of warranty and new parts etc.
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Old 01-05-2012, 07:27 AM   #2
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Default Re: Used engines vs Rebuilt

because with the price the average driver wants to spend is far less than what it costs to rebuild a SOHC engine. Also, most people don't have the mechanical no-how when it comes to rebuilding an engine. It could cost nearly $1000 to rebuild a Y8 when you can buy a low-mileage Y8 longblock for $400. Now when people wanna build them for power, they're rebuilt, but seeing as how you can find an LS (B18B1) swap for around $600 not many people even bother with SOHC engines unless they have their own reason for doing so.
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Old 01-05-2012, 07:34 AM   #3
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Default Re: Used engines vs Rebuilt

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Originally Posted by motegicivic View Post
I know rebuilt will cost more...
Then I don't understand the need to ask the question. Maybe you don't realize HOW much more. Go price a new engine from Honda directly and you might as well just buy that.
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Old 01-05-2012, 07:36 AM   #4
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Default Re: Used engines vs Rebuilt

i'm afraid to even look to see what a new Y8 would cost directly from Honda...$4000+ i'd assume.
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Old 01-05-2012, 07:45 AM   #5
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Default Re: Used engines vs Rebuilt

I am not talking about rebuilding yourself, there places that sell rebuilt or remanufactured engines.
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Old 01-05-2012, 07:49 AM   #6
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Default Re: Used engines vs Rebuilt

I priced one waaaay back. $3,000 from an engine rebuilder.
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Old 01-05-2012, 07:49 AM   #7
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Default Re: Used engines vs Rebuilt

yeah, the places who rebuild the engines want $1000+ for them. Most places like tigerjapanese or hmonline will sell low-mileage engines but not rebuilt just because they're pulled right out of a car. They don't even bother rebuilding them because it's not cost effective, now go to a place that actually does and they don't have the sales figures such as TJ or HMO has.

hell, TJ has some ZC longblocks for $900....if that was a rebuilt engine from a company who specialize in rebuilt engines it would be $2000+
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Old 01-05-2012, 07:54 AM   #8
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Default Re: Used engines vs Rebuilt

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but at least you will get some kind of warranty and new parts etc.
And this. Would you want to spend a few grand only to find out they did a **** poor rebuild and then NOT honor your "warranty"?
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Old 01-05-2012, 08:04 AM   #9
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Default Re: Used engines vs Rebuilt

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And this. Would you want to spend a few grand only to find out they did a **** poor rebuild and then NOT honor your "warranty"?
most shops will not warranty a motor unless it has the head and bottom end attached and timed if not they will void all warranty of install error. many would rather take a warranty from a known running engine vs someones rebuild. id find a friend or someone that knows how to rebuild do one for cheaper and no warranty. they are not hard to rebuild yourself with OEM parts. fresh hone and crank polish and ur on ur way. i had that ******* Dave from DH Racing build me a block and when it failed from his poorly built mistake. i didn't get any money back just a bunch of mix match parts that didn't even go to a d series that i have to sell to get money back and didn't even add up to what i spent on the build. he just str8 dicked me and a waste of time. i see he still trys selling ported heads and t/b's on ebay but i do see his big site he had was down for quite a bit from others experiencing the same issues. he had others build the motors because he didn't have a clue what he was giving you. dont get me wrong he does good port jobs and polishing and porting tb's but building motors isnt his cup of tea.
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Old 01-05-2012, 08:47 AM   #10
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Default Re: Used engines vs Rebuilt

When you buy a rebuilt engine, you are taking a huge chance. You dont know if the kid was eating a peanut butter sandwich on his break and got some on the bearings. You dont know if his boss was in a hurry and just looked it over before signing off on it. Proper experience and tools for rebuilding are expensive. Putting together a hot rod is for fun and can give a person alot of good experience. But having a spun bearing on your daily transportation because you made an assembly error and then pushed the motor too hard red light to red light really sucks. I learned this first hand in the 10th grade

A good used factory built engine will at least give you parts that were correctly assembled with a high degree of quality assurance. If you can hear it run at least you can listen for a skip and look for smoke. Compression test is best and will tell you a whole lot about the condition.

I see used engines for sale on C-list and they are sitting on someones garage floor. That is a crap shoot (gambling.....). "My buddy told me it ran good."
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Old 01-05-2012, 06:08 PM   #11
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Default Re: Used engines vs Rebuilt

I have an article about used engines versus new ones and what parts "should" be replaced when getting one. You can read it here www.AffordableEngine.com.

In general it is hard to find a rebuilt engine if used ones are retailing for less than $2,000. For most rebuilders, it just does not make sense to do them. I sold a guy a rebuilt LandRover Discovery engine, and it cost more than $5K, so rebuilts can get pricey.

Thanks
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Old 01-05-2012, 06:14 PM   #12
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Default Re: Used engines vs Rebuilt

The JDM ZC SHOC VTEC is basically the same motor as the Y8, those can be found from JDM motor importers for really cheap and normally have under 60k on them. Just get a ZC from a 96-98 so you can us your ECU and harness without nay changes.
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Old 01-05-2012, 06:41 PM   #13
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Default Re: Used engines vs Rebuilt

I let my dad talk me into rebuilding my f22 several years ago when it went out on me in Starkville, MS. A guy who didn't see many imports rebuilt it for 3500 and blew a year later. This was a work car that I babied. Buy a low mileage if your looking for stock. Only reason to rebuild is when your going FI
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Old 01-05-2012, 07:22 PM   #14
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Default Re: Used engines vs Rebuilt

go for the rebuild
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Old 01-05-2012, 07:46 PM   #15
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Default Re: Used engines vs Rebuilt

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go for the rebuild
i feel like all your answers are just to get ur post count up

hmm spend 1300+ in parts and own labor for rebuild or 150-500 for a Long block
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Old 01-05-2012, 08:14 PM   #16
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Default Re: Used engines vs Rebuilt

I've installed quite a few low mileage JDM engines at this point, and I honestly I think it's the way to go. Every single person I know personally thought bought a used JDM engine had great luck with it. My own D15B Vtec has been in my car for 4 years and over 100,000kms and still doesn't take any oil or coolant. I mean really they're very cost effective and they normally come complete. A $2500 rebuild on an engine going in $2000 car just doesn't make much sense.
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Old 01-06-2012, 01:37 PM   #17
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Default Re: Used engines vs Rebuilt

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Originally Posted by motegicivic View Post
I know rebuilt will cost more, but at least you will get some kind of warranty and new parts etc.
For what it's worth, most places will give a 30-90 day startup warranty on their used, imported motors. So you do get some kind of warranty.
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Old 01-06-2012, 02:28 PM   #18
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Default Re: Used engines vs Rebuilt

I have had great expeirence with Low mile Jdm motors over the years! I just do a tune up on them. timing belt water pump ect and drop in and go! I had a friend spin a rod bearing in fresh rebuild in his eclipse. it was done at a no name shop did it for real cheap and I gues they didnt measure bearing clearances and went a little crazy with silicone gasket sealer because it plugged up his oil pick up and then spun 2 rod bearings in the first 500 miles of the rebuild. Building a motor is all about precision measuring and then measuring again. I have seen dumb people just throw bearings in with out even checking the clearence and throw some piston rings In with out gaping them or clocking them right and the damn thing runs! but not for long haha
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Old 01-06-2012, 02:50 PM   #19
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Default Re: Used engines vs Rebuilt

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I have had great expeirence with Low mile Jdm motors over the years! I just do a tune up on them. timing belt water pump ect and drop in and go!
Same here, they all get a new OEM timing belt and water pump, sometimes crank and cam seals as well. That's really about it. I haven't seen one bad right off the pallet yet, and the only ones I've seen blow up were abused.

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Building a motor is all about precision measuring and then measuring again.
That and cleanliness. You want stuff surgically clean when you do engine assembly.

Also I did some work on a Supra last winter(timing belt, water pump and new turbo). Engine had been rebuilt several years prior, things I found wrong:

- Wrong front crank seal used, wasn't designed for an engine, it was almost the right outer diameter, but not quite, it was just floating in the hole, how it didn't have a massive oil leak is beyond me. It was also hard as a rock since it wasn't meant for a high heat application.
- broken water pump stud, hole filled with blue silicone, great.
- Metric exhaust manifold studs replaced with standard bolts crossthreaded into the head, wonderful
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Old 01-06-2012, 03:04 PM   #20
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Default Re: Used engines vs Rebuilt

Right on man! yeah I have had good experiences with Tiger Japanese even though alot of people have not had such good experiences with them... But recently I have just been using HMO for used motors, they have great customer service and even a startup warrenty
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Old 01-06-2012, 03:12 PM   #21
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Default Re: Used engines vs Rebuilt

For 96-00 Civics "low mileage used" USDM D16Y engines are JUNK. I do not trust Y series USDM market bottom ends, period. I've seen more adult driven, well maintained D16Y series engines develop rod knocks more so than all other Honda engines combined when I worked at an independent Honda/Acura only repair shop.

Remanufactured engine suppliers use crap parts and are using the same faulty crap Y series blocks anyways.

Those suggesting the JDM imported alternative have the right idea IMO. The problem is some D16Y8 engines don't really have a 100% absolute direct swap from Japan that doesn't require some sort of retrofitting/wiring/part swaps.
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Old 01-06-2012, 03:38 PM   #22
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Default Re: Used engines vs Rebuilt

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Remanufactured engine suppliers use crap parts and are using the same faulty crap Y series blocks anyways.
It's the cranks Tom. Y5/Y7/Y8 cranks have half the oiling holes per journal of a Z6 crank.

Edit, that should have read cranks not blocks, reading owns me tonight.

Quote:
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Those suggesting the JDM imported alternative have the right idea IMO. The problem is some D16Y8 engines don't really have a 100% absolute direct swap from Japan that doesn't require some sort of retrofitting/wiring/part swaps.
That would be about the only time I'd even think about rebuilding a D-series to stock specs, even then I'd probably stick a Z6/A6 crank in it (they drop right in if anyone wondered) Even at at a Y8 head on JDM OBD2 ZC block would probably be the best bet.
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Old 01-06-2012, 03:44 PM   #23
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Default Re: Used engines vs Rebuilt

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It's the blocks Tom. Y5/Y7/Y8 cranks have half the oiling holes per journal of a Z6 crank.
ohhh I have heard something about this! I think people end up cross drilling oil holes in the journals to allow adequate oiling of the crank bearings when they build the motor for boost? I have heard of the old chevy guys doing this as well

here is a cool thread about this debate. Should I cross drill should I not? Z6 crank or Y8 crank? its pretty interesting if you guys care to read.
http://www.d-series.org/forums/engin...-thoughts.html
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Old 01-06-2012, 07:56 PM   #24
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Default Re: Used engines vs Rebuilt

word you right
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Old 01-06-2012, 09:55 PM   #25
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Default Re: Used engines vs Rebuilt

well when u put bearings in the holes dont exactly line up and i champfer the edge on mine with a cone carbide bit and opened up the oil holes on the main cap bearings. u have to be extremely careful doing this $100 a pop for bearings aint cheap. but the cranks are the main problem with the y series d16's.
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