Go Back   Honda-Tech > Honda and Acura Model-Specific Technical Forums > Honda S2000
Sign in using an external account
Register Forgot Password?
Search


Welcome to Honda-Tech!
Welcome to Honda-Tech.com.

You are currently viewing our forums as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Honda-Tech community today!


Reply
 
 
 
submit to reddit
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-30-2011, 04:16 PM   #1
mrscbw
Honda-Tech Member
Garage is empty, add now
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 17
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Dual stage to single stage?

Is it possible to bypass the the first stage of a dual stage airbag and use it as a single stage?

Picture below:
Single stage airbag on left - Dual stage on right..

Splice red wires on dual stage and wire it to the single stage connector. Bypass yellow wires..

Possible?

Click the image to open in full size.
mrscbw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2011, 07:39 PM   #2
dagle
Honda-Tech Member
Garage is empty, add now
 
dagle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Francisco, CA, US
Posts: 5,156
iTrader Rating: (1)
Send a message via AIM to dagle
Default Re: Dual stage to single stage?

that sounds like a great idea, i don't see how it would be different. afterall it's just a trigger to an airbag, it should work the same. The billions spent on airbag technology was a waste, you just splice red wire to red wire!! BRILLIANT!
__________________
To Mislead and Misinform...
dagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2011, 08:07 PM   #3
Boots
Honda-Tech Member
2001 Honda S2000
My Garage
 
Boots's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: JDM land, usa
Posts: 4,335
iTrader Rating: (0)
Send a message via AIM to Boots
Default Re: Dual stage to single stage?

what the hell is with the influx of idiots? it must be that time of month again
__________________
2001 Honda S2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReddotsS2K View Post
Boots knows his ****
The S2000 section resident *******. Keeping White Smoke on his toes since 2006
Boots is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2011, 09:28 PM   #4
dagle
Honda-Tech Member
Garage is empty, add now
 
dagle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Francisco, CA, US
Posts: 5,156
iTrader Rating: (1)
Send a message via AIM to dagle
Default Re: Dual stage to single stage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boots View Post
what the hell is with the influx of idiots? it must be that time of month again
yeah and apparently we, as the people who have a bit of common sense shouldn't outcast these morons for the sake of preserving the forum. ARE YOU ****ING KIDDING ME? C'MON.
__________________
To Mislead and Misinform...
dagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2011, 09:32 PM   #5
Boots
Honda-Tech Member
2001 Honda S2000
My Garage
 
Boots's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: JDM land, usa
Posts: 4,335
iTrader Rating: (0)
Send a message via AIM to Boots
Default Re: Dual stage to single stage?

stupidity should not be coddled...
__________________
2001 Honda S2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReddotsS2K View Post
Boots knows his ****
The S2000 section resident *******. Keeping White Smoke on his toes since 2006
Boots is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2011, 09:34 PM   #6
mrscbw
Honda-Tech Member
Garage is empty, add now
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 17
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: Dual stage to single stage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dagle View Post
that sounds like a great idea, i don't see how it would be different. afterall it's just a trigger to an airbag, it should work the same. The billions spent on airbag technology was a waste, you just splice red wire to red wire!! BRILLIANT!
Actually this is just the airbag itself. The controller is what Triggers the airbag based off sensors placed on the vehicle, NO? This dual stage air bag is basically 2 air bags with different pressures. The dual stage controller is what chooses which airbag to set off. So if we are using a single stage controller, we could choose which bag to use and run a dual stage bag as a single stage. Either the more severe bag or the mild bag, only one will be connected and only one will be triggered?

Heres somebody who has tried it, just wanted some feedback on it. No need to be a dick.

http://www.clublexus.com/forums/sc-4...ag-work-2.html
mrscbw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2011, 09:37 PM   #7
Boots
Honda-Tech Member
2001 Honda S2000
My Garage
 
Boots's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: JDM land, usa
Posts: 4,335
iTrader Rating: (0)
Send a message via AIM to Boots
Default Re: Dual stage to single stage?

its dual stage for a reason, but hey, you want to take a chance on a device that is designed to save your life and modify it, by all means...i think Darwin called that natural selection...in short, its a very dumb idea
__________________
2001 Honda S2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReddotsS2K View Post
Boots knows his ****
The S2000 section resident *******. Keeping White Smoke on his toes since 2006
Boots is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2011, 09:48 PM   #8
mrscbw
Honda-Tech Member
Garage is empty, add now
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 17
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: Dual stage to single stage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boots View Post
its dual stage for a reason, but hey, you want to take a chance on a device that is designed to save your life and modify it, by all means...i think Darwin called that natural selection...in short, its a very dumb idea
Isn't dual stage air bag made to preserve the severe air bag in mild cases? Also, to prevent unneeded pressure to the passenger in less severe conditions?
mrscbw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2011, 10:07 PM   #9
Boots
Honda-Tech Member
2001 Honda S2000
My Garage
 
Boots's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: JDM land, usa
Posts: 4,335
iTrader Rating: (0)
Send a message via AIM to Boots
Default Re: Dual stage to single stage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrscbw View Post
Isn't dual stage air bag made to preserve the severe air bag in mild cases? Also, to prevent unneeded pressure to the passenger in less severe conditions?

exactly, but why would you want to alter that in any way? im honestly trying to make an attempt to understand your reasoning behind it
__________________
2001 Honda S2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReddotsS2K View Post
Boots knows his ****
The S2000 section resident *******. Keeping White Smoke on his toes since 2006
Boots is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2011, 10:30 PM   #10
dagle
Honda-Tech Member
Garage is empty, add now
 
dagle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Francisco, CA, US
Posts: 5,156
iTrader Rating: (1)
Send a message via AIM to dagle
Default Re: Dual stage to single stage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrscbw View Post
Actually this is just the airbag itself. The controller is what Triggers the airbag based off sensors placed on the vehicle, NO? This dual stage air bag is basically 2 air bags with different pressures. The dual stage controller is what chooses which airbag to set off. So if we are using a single stage controller, we could choose which bag to use and run a dual stage bag as a single stage. Either the more severe bag or the mild bag, only one will be connected and only one will be triggered?

Heres somebody who has tried it, just wanted some feedback on it. No need to be a dick.

http://www.clublexus.com/forums/sc-4...ag-work-2.html
I can't believe that you're serious and not a forum troll. ARE YOU SERIOUSLY CONSIDERING ALTERING THE SRS SYSTEM? It's one thing to convert the entire dual stage system to single stage, or vice versa, but to try to engineer your own version of it without understanding it is INSANE. If you don't understand it to the point where you can do the conversion yourself, would you not agree it's best to leave it to the billions of dollars that went into engineering and technological advances?

You can't be serious, then I see that you try to defend your proposal?
Click the image to open in full size.
__________________
To Mislead and Misinform...
dagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2011, 10:56 PM   #11
mrscbw
Honda-Tech Member
Garage is empty, add now
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 17
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: Dual stage to single stage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dagle View Post
I can't believe that you're serious and not a forum troll. ARE YOU SERIOUSLY CONSIDERING ALTERING THE SRS SYSTEM? It's one thing to convert the entire dual stage system to single stage, or vice versa, but to try to engineer your own version of it without understanding it is INSANE. If you don't understand it to the point where you can do the conversion yourself, would you not agree it's best to leave it to the billions of dollars that went into engineering and technological advances?

You can't be serious, then I see that you try to defend your proposal?
Click the image to open in full size.
Can you explain how a airbag system works instead of just telling me im an idiot? Or better yet..tell me why it WOULDN'T work?

We could all learn something about airbags here, yea?
mrscbw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2011, 11:02 PM   #12
mrscbw
Honda-Tech Member
Garage is empty, add now
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 17
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: Dual stage to single stage?

"The airbag sensor is a MEMS accelerometer, which is a small integrated circuit with integrated micro mechanical elements. The microscopic mechanical element moves in response to rapid deceleration, and this motion causes a change in capacitance, which is detected by the electronics on the chip that then sends a signal to fire the airbag. The most common MEMS accelerometer in use is the ADXL-50 by Analog Devices, but there are other MEMS manufacturers as well."

Seems like all the technology is located in the control unit, sensors, etc.. and the air bag is just waiting for the trigger from the control unit. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure there is a vast amount invested in the acutal bag itself. But if the air bag is just that..an airbag..waiting to be deployed. I don't see how you can't swap this out? If you crash, controller unit sends signal to air bag..air bag deploys..no?

What is actually inside the airbag?
mrscbw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2011, 11:22 PM   #13
Boots
Honda-Tech Member
2001 Honda S2000
My Garage
 
Boots's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: JDM land, usa
Posts: 4,335
iTrader Rating: (0)
Send a message via AIM to Boots
Default Re: Dual stage to single stage?

nothing is actually inside the air bag until it deploys, then i believe its inflated with nitrogen...i strongly urge you not to try to reverse engineer an airbag...im not quite sure if that was the answer you were looking for...i would imagine, however, that if you disabled, say the severe airbag, it would adversly affect the "mild" airbag in a sense that would render the entire system useless, setting yourself up for catastrophic consequences
__________________
2001 Honda S2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReddotsS2K View Post
Boots knows his ****
The S2000 section resident *******. Keeping White Smoke on his toes since 2006
Boots is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2011, 11:27 PM   #14
dagle
Honda-Tech Member
Garage is empty, add now
 
dagle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Francisco, CA, US
Posts: 5,156
iTrader Rating: (1)
Send a message via AIM to dagle
Default Re: Dual stage to single stage?

Ok, go do it then on what you think is how it works. I don't claim to understand to know the elements, triggers, chemical compounds, their reactions or anything within an airbag system, but I do have the common sense to know that its a bad idea to make assumptions about a system and modifying the system based on those assumptions.

Have fun then, and I hope for your sake that you never find yourself in a situation where the airbag may need to be deployed.
__________________
To Mislead and Misinform...
dagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2011, 11:33 PM   #15
mrscbw
Honda-Tech Member
Garage is empty, add now
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 17
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: Dual stage to single stage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boots View Post
nothing is actually inside the air bag until it deploys, then i believe its inflated with nitrogen...i strongly urge you not to try to reverse engineer an airbag...im not quite sure if that was the answer you were looking for...i would imagine, however, that if you disabled, say the severe airbag, it would adversly affect the "mild" airbag in a sense that would render the entire system useless, setting yourself up for catastrophic consequences
This is the kind of responses I was looking for. Could you explain how it would affect the mild airbag if the severe airbag is not in place? I was under the impression that these are 2 seperate airbags with different rates of deployment running 2 different trigger lines by the dual stage controller. The dual stage controller..based on impact can decide which airbag to deploy using sensors. Is there something inside the airbag itself that has the 2 airbags talk to each other?

Since I will be converting this to a single stage. The single stage controller cannot decide which airbag to deploy because it only has 1. So any airbag connected to the control unit will be triggered as soon as conditions are met by the single stage controller no matter which airbag you connect to it..mild or severe (of course I would wire the severe bag and not the mild).

Again, this is just my thinking based on how airbags work. If I am missing something or oversimplifying the system, drop it on me
mrscbw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2011, 11:37 PM   #16
mrscbw
Honda-Tech Member
Garage is empty, add now
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 17
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: Dual stage to single stage?

Once the electrical circuit has been turned on by the sensor, a pellet of sodium azide (NaN3) is ignited. A rapid reaction occurs, generating nitrogen gas (N2). This gas fills a nylon or polyamide bag at a velocity of 150 to 250 miles per hour. This process, from the initial impact of the crash to full inflation of the airbags, takes only about 40 milliseconds (Movie 1). Ideally, the body of the driver (or passenger) should not hit the airbag while it is still inflating. In order for the airbag to cushion the head and torso with air for maximum protection, the airbag must begin to deflate (i.e., decrease its internal pressure) by the time the body hits it. Otherwise, the high internal pressure of the airbag would create a surface as hard as stone-- not the protective cushion you would want to crash into!
mrscbw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2011, 11:59 PM   #17
Boots
Honda-Tech Member
2001 Honda S2000
My Garage
 
Boots's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: JDM land, usa
Posts: 4,335
iTrader Rating: (0)
Send a message via AIM to Boots
Default Re: Dual stage to single stage?

well, ill tell you from experience, my face has never met an airbag that it got along with, they suck and they hurt like hell...now as far has which bag is deployed is completely dependent on the actual controller...technically speaking, both airbags work independently, but are controlled by the same trigger ie the controller...does that make sense at all?
__________________
2001 Honda S2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReddotsS2K View Post
Boots knows his ****
The S2000 section resident *******. Keeping White Smoke on his toes since 2006
Boots is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2011, 12:09 AM   #18
mrscbw
Honda-Tech Member
Garage is empty, add now
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 17
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: Dual stage to single stage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boots View Post
well, ill tell you from experience, my face has never met an airbag that it got along with, they suck and they hurt like hell...now as far has which bag is deployed is completely dependent on the actual controller...technically speaking, both airbags work independently, but are controlled by the same trigger ie the controller...does that make sense at all?
That makes complete sense to me. Since they both have seperate trigger lines connected to the controller. Since the airbags work independently if you don't connect the mild airbag at all, the single stage controller won't even know something is missing because it doesn't even know that there are suppose to be 2 airbags connected to it. It only has 1 trigger line and made to trigger 1 air bag when conditions are met. Does this make any sense?
mrscbw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2011, 12:17 AM   #19
Boots
Honda-Tech Member
2001 Honda S2000
My Garage
 
Boots's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: JDM land, usa
Posts: 4,335
iTrader Rating: (0)
Send a message via AIM to Boots
Default Re: Dual stage to single stage?

it does....but it might trigger something to malfunction inside the controller since its setup for two airbags and only one is being used...to be honest, im not quite sure what goes on inside the controller
__________________
2001 Honda S2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReddotsS2K View Post
Boots knows his ****
The S2000 section resident *******. Keeping White Smoke on his toes since 2006
Boots is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2011, 12:19 AM   #20
mrscbw
Honda-Tech Member
Garage is empty, add now
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 17
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: Dual stage to single stage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boots View Post
it does....but it might trigger something to malfunction inside the controller since its setup for two airbags and only one is being used...to be honest, im not quite sure what goes on inside the controller
Ahh..I'll talk to the guy at clublexus to see whats going on with his..
mrscbw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2011, 01:31 AM   #21
dagle
Honda-Tech Member
Garage is empty, add now
 
dagle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Francisco, CA, US
Posts: 5,156
iTrader Rating: (1)
Send a message via AIM to dagle
Default Re: Dual stage to single stage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrscbw View Post
Ahh..I'll talk to the guy at clublexus to see whats going on with his..
For your sake, if you really want to convert to single stage just get the 00-05 complete SRS system.
__________________
To Mislead and Misinform...
dagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2011, 01:36 AM   #22
mrscbw
Honda-Tech Member
Garage is empty, add now
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 17
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: Dual stage to single stage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dagle View Post
For your sake, if you really want to convert to single stage just get the 00-05 complete SRS system.
Uhh...dont know what you were reading but I coulda sworn I said i am trying to put a dual stage airbag as a single stage in a SINGLE STAGE system...

Why would I get a convert to single stage system when I already have one?
mrscbw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2011, 03:19 AM   #23
HondaKyle
Honda-Tech Member
2000 Honda S2000
 
HondaKyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Chicago land
Posts: 6,520
iTrader Rating: (0)
HondaKyle S2k Kyle
Send a message via AIM to HondaKyle
Default Re: Dual stage to single stage?

I think Honda has a good idea about how to make a car safe. My idea for you would be just leave it as is.
HondaKyle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2011, 04:03 AM   #24
dagle
Honda-Tech Member
Garage is empty, add now
 
dagle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Francisco, CA, US
Posts: 5,156
iTrader Rating: (1)
Send a message via AIM to dagle
Default Re: Dual stage to single stage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrscbw View Post
Uhh...dont know what you were reading but I coulda sworn I said i am trying to put a dual stage airbag as a single stage in a SINGLE STAGE system...

Why would I get a convert to single stage system when I already have one?

Ok, then what benefit do you see from converting a dual-stage airbag to a single stage to work in the 00-05? Why not just get the one that's designed to work with the existing system?
__________________
To Mislead and Misinform...
dagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2011, 09:33 PM   #25
mrscbw
Honda-Tech Member
Garage is empty, add now
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 17
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: Dual stage to single stage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dagle View Post
Ok, then what benefit do you see from converting a dual-stage airbag to a single stage to work in the 00-05? Why not just get the one that's designed to work with the existing system?
Well...I figured out how to do it safely without altering the system. It was quite simple actually. After research..a dual stage system utilizes 2 ignitors and 1 airbag. (how I figure this out? Simple, watching a video of a dual stage airbag deploy. First stage deploys air bag comes out, second stage deploys, airbag REINFALTES.) Looking at the back of these 2 units..all I had to do was remove the dual stage ignitor system and switch it with the single stage. Problem Solved. NO splicing needed. Direct swap.


Now I have just opened the door for people who wants to swap the newer AP2 steering wheel into their single stage system..

I contribute not just leech okay? thanks bye..
mrscbw is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
 
submit to reddit
Reply

Tags
00, air, airbag, airbags, bag, bypass, civic, convert, double, dual, honda, igniter, located, rs, single, stage, type

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 01:05 AM.



2008 Copyright, InternetBrands Inc.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Honda and the Honda marquee are registered trademarks of the American Honda Motor Company, Inc. Neither American Honda Motor Company nor its subsidiaries or affiliates shall bear any responsibility for Honda-Tech.com content, comments, or advertising. Honda-Tech.com is not affiliated with American Honda Motor Company in any way. American Honda Motor Company does not sponsor, support, or endorse Honda-Tech.com in any way. Copyright/trademark/sales mark infringements are not intended or implied.
Emails & Contact Details