B18C5-EH2

The Cliffs version, and ultimately answering this question can give me the solution to my problem, or at least rule it out as a possible fix. I'll give all the GORY details of my problem after asking this very simple question:

Would using MPC rear lower drop arms on an otherwise bone stock suspension allow for the 2'' lower ride height, but not add ANY negative camber to rear wheels?

https://www.jhpusa.com/store/pc/view...&idcategory=26

Okay so WHY am I asking this? I have a 1990 Civic wagon DX 2WD that is lowered quite a lot from factory skyjacker status.




Years ago I lowered it on Eibach coilovers, and had more than -3.5 degrees of rear camber. This was my daily driver, and I wanted something more reasonable in the range of -1.0 or at worst -1.5 degrees of rear camber. At the time I worked at a shop, and we had a laser alignment rack, and I was doing all of the alignment settings myself. I'd successfully aligned countless lowered civics that needed to wear tires evenly above all else, so I had experience doing this stuff.

So I used longer grade eight bolts and alignment shims to space the upper arms (this was 8 years ago, before everyone and their mom offered adjustable upper camber arms, and it was free) away from the body to achieve the -1.0 degrees of rear camber I was after. Then a new problem popped up:

I could not get my toe even REMOTELY in spec because I ran out of adjustment slot with the stock toe links.

... so I swapped those out for SPC adjustable toe links. So now I was able to get the desired .08 rear toe, -1.0 rear camber, but a NEW problem arose:

My RTA stock RTA bushings were stressed hard, and tore. I ordered hard rubber fixed-ear mount RTA bushings, but now due to the RTAs being brought "in" by the SPC toe links I could not even get close to getting the RTA bushing ear holes to line up to bolt them on. So I needed a solution, and fast.

I ended up installing poly RTA bushings (I know!) with floating mounting ear piece, and this is where the entire sus issues got strange.

After getting the front end sorted via Skunk2 upper arms, etc. the alignment was all good. Took the car for a test drive, and nothing major popped up. Upon driving the car home at higher speeds, and taking corners I noticed that the back of the car just felt scary loose, and as if when turning it was always trying to "catch up" to the front of the car. Admittedly the Eibachs are shitty soft for the car to begin with, but with such a lowered ride height (195-50-15s and sitting almost flush with fender arches at top of tire) it handled pretty wishy washy out back.

So I just lived with it for a long time, but as time wore on, and my commute changed to mostly highway miles I have decided this MUST be fixed. It's damn scary trying to change lanes at 85mph with the *** end feeling like it's am compass/floaty/not on the same page as the front of the car.

So the first thing I've done is swap out the coilovers for AMRs with much stiffer springs. They are now 650F/750R and it has made a HUGE difference in handling, and the *** end issue doesn't seem to be as extreme. It's not handling as sure-footed, and predictable as my 1992 hatch did on 425F/550R though, and I can't help but wonder if it's solely the poly trailing arm bushings causing bump steer, or if the rear geometry has been fucked up with the toe links, camber correction, etc.

So my thoughts were to try and either get a GOOD flaoting mounting ear style RTA bushing set, or possibly the MPC drop arms, and hopefully be able to raise shock body/extend to regain those two inches back, and hence be able to remove the camber shims, then adjust the toe with a more factory-like end length for toe arms, and then be able to go back to fixed-ear RTA bushings.

I can tell you guys that the car didn't drive so shitty in the *** end until the whole camber/toe/RTA bushing floating poly swaps. I'm not trying to just remove camber shims, run -3.5 rear camber, and destroy tires on my 90 mile a DAY commutes. I currently wear tires absolutely perfectly even.

So what are your thoughts, suspension gurus? It's a lot to process.

B18C5-EH2

80 views, zero thoughts?

Is it truly a stumper?

Tyson

Too much text.

Fix your link.

B18C5-EH2

Had to explain the issue in detail, but in reality if someone only reads and answers the bolded question it will help.

​​​​​Done.

Tyson

no. it still lowers your suspension, thus adjusting camber (as it should).

B18C5-EH2

So in essence the only thing that lowers the car without changing camber would be the drop "spindles" or rear trailing arms that move the hub of the wheel up two inches on the trailing arm itself...

...yeah those are not available for the wagon, so this should be a fun issue to solve.

KoRn_vIRuZ

Quite an interesting problem. Do you think that, since it sits lower from the factory, installing regular 3 door Civic suspension parts (assuming they'll bolt on) would allow you to run regular OEM RTA bushings, in-spec toe settings and shim-adjusted camber? Don't know what is different between the 3 door and the wagon but it's a matter of perusing the parts catalog.

B18C5-EH2

88-91 Civic wagon rear trailing arms are unique, so no other EF trailing arms work here. It's the main reason why you rarely EVER see rear disc brakes on Civic wagons. I know people swap the upper camber arms all the time, lower control arms, and the toe links. I'm not sure if I would have encountered the same situation on a regular hatchback or sedan.

At this point I'm just trying to figure out what will be the best RTA bushing I can install that doesn't have fixed mounting ears.

I figured this would be the place to get the best help - should I try the auto-X forum instead?

KoRn_vIRuZ

These look like they might be adjustable ( 88-00 Civic 89-01 Integra 88-91 CRX Honda Rear Trailing Arm Spherical Kit ? PCI Racing ). Maybe you can send the manufacturer an email to confirm?
Sorry I can't help more, it's beyond my level of expertise. Good luck!