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Old 11-13-2009, 12:38 PM   #1
gabebauman
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Icon2 Consistent rotational knocking noise when turning left or right while on the gas

Car: '93 Civic Cx Hatch, with a JDM B20B motor & '99 Si tranny.

Problem: Whenever I turn LEFT or RIGHT, I hear this knocking noise coming from the front of my car. (knock, knock, knock) Its not rubbing, and the axle is not broken, (I've replaced three driver side cv shafts/axles and one passenger side). It happens only when on the throttle. If I press the clutch down and turn or I'm not on the gas, I don't hear it. It just seems axle related...but like I said...I've recently replaced both front axles/half-shafts. All of my ball joints, wheel bearings and other front suspension components check out fine. What could it be?

Thanks in advance. Help is appreciated.
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Old 11-13-2009, 12:55 PM   #2
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Default Re: Hearing knocking noise when turning left...HELP PLEASE. It's not the axle.

usdm 99' si transmissions don't have lsd so that's not it... where did you get the axles? vatozone? are you sure you put the axle all the way in... and it could be a wheel bearing...
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Old 11-13-2009, 01:02 PM   #3
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Default Re: Hearing knocking noise when turning left...HELP PLEASE. It's not the axle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by burningrex View Post
usdm 99' si transmissions don't have lsd so that's not it... where did you get the axles? vatozone? are you sure you put the axle all the way in... and it could be a wheel bearing...
Oops...my bad...I don't know why I put differential in there...I meant to say my tranny.

Driverside Axle = AutoZone - But sound isn't coming from that side.
Passengerside Axle = Nap - but it made the same noise before I replaced the axle a couple weeks ago.

As for the wheel bearing...Isn't that noise more like a hum or more constant sound?

Thanks for your reply burningrex.
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Old 02-22-2010, 08:18 AM   #4
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Default UPDATE

Ok...it was fairly warm out Saturday so I took advantage of the weather in the afternoon while my boys were napping to swap out my fuel pump. That went smooth and seemed to fix my code 43 so I figured while I'm at it...check out the driver-side axle because this knocking noise is really startin' to bug me. Both boots were totally fine, had no cracks or even any visible signs of fatigue on the axle. What the heck...I've still got the receipt...let's run over to AutoZone and just get a new one with the warranty and all. So I get home, throw the shiny new axle on the car, and take her for a spin around the block.

Whadda-ya-know...it's still knockin' when I turn left.

Come Monday morning on the drive to work I figure that the old driver side axle must have had some kind of issue...because with the fresh axle installed.. when I'm on the gas...the faint dadadadadadadadada noise is gone.

However...the knock, knock, knock sound is still there when I turn left under acceleration.
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Old 02-22-2010, 08:38 AM   #5
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Default Re: Hearing knocking noise when turning left...HELP PLEASE. It's not the axle.

That totally sounds like it should be the axle, but I guess if you've changed it then it's not.

It could be the bearing. Jack the car up put the brake on and see if there is any play in the wheel, (see if you can move it) then you'll know if it's the bearing or not. I had the same thing on my accord, it was a rear bearing, only made noise when I was turning, so check that.
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Old 02-22-2010, 09:19 AM   #6
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Default Re: Hearing knocking noise when turning left...HELP PLEASE. It's not the axle.

Your not lowered are you?
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Old 02-22-2010, 09:52 AM   #7
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Default Re: Hearing knocking noise when turning left...HELP PLEASE. It's not the axle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhdins View Post
That totally sounds like it should be the axle, but I guess if you've changed it then it's not.

It could be the bearing. Jack the car up put the brake on and see if there is any play in the wheel, (see if you can move it) then you'll know if it's the bearing or not. I had the same thing on my accord, it was a rear bearing, only made noise when I was turning, so check that.
Yeah...I know huh. It's driving me crazy.

There is no play in the wheel and there is no sign of the wheel bearing going bad.

Yes...My car is lowered.
Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 02-22-2010, 10:36 AM   #8
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Default Re: Hearing knocking noise when turning left...HELP PLEASE. It's not the axle.

Fella on a local forum posted this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by hflshane View Post
hey gabe dont rule out that differential. the brakes, suspension, input bearing, etc (which you say checks out fine) is really mundane stuff that really wouldnt effect the symptom it sounds like you're having. don't forget that while your turning, whether you have a open diff or lsd, that the differential pinion gears have to walk around those side gears. depending on which way you're turning theyre walking around either clockwise or counter clockwise and if you're on the throttle you're putting a load on the teeth. if there's some kind of a problem, a chip in the teeth maybe, with your diff pinion gears, side gears or pinion shaft it could be causing that symptom. just a guess but deffinitely something to think about.
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Old 03-18-2010, 12:37 PM   #9
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Default Re: Hearing knocking noise when turning left...HELP PLEASE. It's not the axle.



Just got off the phone with Dan Harrington over at Cottman Transmission. Bad news is that this transmission has apparently been opened up before because there are signs of exploded parts all over the casing, (no remnants remain other than scratches on the walls). Two teeth on the Counter Shaft gear are chipped and one tooth on the Ring Gear is chipped. He is certain this is the root of my hatch's mysterious knocking sound.

My options are basically to have a rebuild done ($1500+) or to find a new/used transmision ($????)
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Old 03-18-2010, 01:20 PM   #10
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Default Re: Hearing knocking noise when turning left...HELP PLEASE. It's not the axle.

Cottman tranny? Find someone else, get at least three estimates and not from Astro or those other quack tranny shops. Find a small, reputable, been in business forever, shop that won't bull **** you, and offers a good price.
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Old 03-18-2010, 01:28 PM   #11
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Default Re: Hearing knocking noise when turning left...HELP PLEASE. It's not the axle.

My car was doing that a while ago, and it turned out that when I put the axles in, I forgot to punch in the axle nut. There is a little spot on the axle nut that is supposed to be beat in when the nut is all the way tightened. I didn't do that, and the nut was backing itself off the threads. Did the EXACT thing you are talking about. That is just my .02.
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Old 03-18-2010, 01:29 PM   #12
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Default Re: Hearing knocking noise when turning left...HELP PLEASE. It's not the axle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pityocamptes View Post
Cottman tranny? Find someone else, get at least three estimates and not from Astro or those other quack tranny shops. Find a small, reputable, been in business forever, shop that won't bull **** you, and offers a good price.
This is a local SCCA member's shop. I trust him.
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Old 03-18-2010, 01:36 PM   #13
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Default Re: Hearing knocking noise when turning left...HELP PLEASE. It's not the axle.

If you say so. I have heard too many bad things from AAMCO, Cottman, etc. I would want to physically see what he is talking about, making sure its MY tranny, before proceeding...
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Old 03-18-2010, 02:07 PM   #14
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Default Re: Hearing knocking noise when turning left...HELP PLEASE. It's not the axle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pityocamptes View Post
If you say so. I have heard too many bad things from AAMCO, Cottman, etc. I would want to physically see what he is talking about, making sure its MY tranny, before proceeding...
I plan on stopping in there on my way to work tomorrow morning just so I can see for myself. Thanks for the advice.
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Old 03-18-2010, 08:35 PM   #15
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Default Re: Hearing knocking noise when turning left...HELP PLEASE. It's not the axle.

i also had this problem on a 95 gsr and a 96 ex civic and both were the input shafts inside the trans
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Old 03-18-2010, 08:58 PM   #16
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Default Re: Hearing knocking noise when turning left...HELP PLEASE. It's not the axle.

i have the same problem. i hear the ticking sound at slow speeds, below 20, turning or not.however sometimes it isn't there. So i jacked the car up and then i tried manually rotating the wheel for like 20 times but I can't hear no ticking. then I saw the engine mount, located in the front passenger side is busted. I am not sure if it is the one causing the issue but i'll be replacing it tomorrow. I have a 99 lx though. if the mounts are in the same place, you may want to check yours too.
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Old 03-18-2010, 10:24 PM   #17
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Default Re: Hearing knocking noise when turning left...HELP PLEASE. It's not the axle.

i also have the same problem but only when i reverse
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Old 03-19-2010, 08:05 AM   #18
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Default Re: Hearing knocking noise when turning left...HELP PLEASE. It's not the axle.

I stopped into the shop this morning to check everything out. He showed me how the counter shaft had two teeth chipped and the diff ring gear had a small chip on one of the teeth.

Question. I purchased an OEM B16/S4C LSD differential that came with a 66 tooth ring gear already attached to it, (teeth are all fine on it). If I just find a B16 counter shaft with 15 teeth in good condition...is that all I need or do I need to get the exact matching pair, (15 teeth counter shaft and 66 teeth ring gear) from the same transmission?
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Old 03-19-2010, 12:07 PM   #19
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Default Re: Hearing knocking noise when turning left...HELP PLEASE. It's not the axle.

Just picked up a near complete set of B16 trans internals for $120 thanks to a local fella. Gonna drop the parts off at the shop in a couple ours.
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Old 03-24-2010, 05:49 PM   #20
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Default Re: Hearing knocking noise when turning left...HELP PLEASE. It's not the axle.

I may be onto something. Found out today thru some research and chatting with a brake expert online that the 1998 Civic front knuckles I swapped over from my old Civic to my 1993 Civic are 1/2in shorter in overall height.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gabebauman
Are there any problems using the 96-00 Civic Ex/Si front knuckles on the 92-95 Civic Cx/Dx?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrakeExpert
Depends. The 96-00 Civic knuckles are 1/2" shorter than 92-95 Civic ones, so if your car is at stock height, you'll have camber change. With a camber kit, you're fine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gabebauman

Interesting. Because last summer I swapped over the entire front brake setup, (knuckles, rotors, calipers, etc) from my wrecked 98 Civic Ex to my 93 Civic Cx. I simply figured they were the same in every aspect. However...a little while after I did this I happened to notice a knocking noise coming from my front end when I am turning while pushing on the gas. It's hard to describe but here is a thread I started a while back trying to diagnose the situation.

http://www.jdmcity.com/showthread.php?t=9507

Do you think that because the 96-00 Civic knuckles are only a half inch shorter than the 92-95 Civic knuckles that this could possibly cause my axles to bind and make this obnoxious knocking sound while turning and accelerating?

Thanks for your help BrakeExpert!
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrakeExpert
Yes it can. When you use a different height knuckle and the same control arms, its as if the knuckle is now tilting. This means the outer axle end is changing distance from where it would normally be, so if it were farther out or closer in, that could add friction and cause em to wear because they are designed to move up and down with regards to the UCA and LCA and knuckle lengths that the chassis had it designed for.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gabebauman

Well then. That certainly sheds some light on some things. Thanks so much man.
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Old 03-27-2010, 05:59 PM   #21
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Default Re: Hearing knocking noise when turning left...HELP PLEASE. It's not the axle.

Ok...this sucks. I just swapped the old Cx knuckles/rotors/calipers back over to the hatch today and the noise is still there. Not to mention these calipers must be junk because now my brake pressure is just like it was before I swapped over to the larger Ex front brakes.

Could it be that AutoZone axles are just that bad?

Could it be my intermediate shaft c-clip has gone bad? Whenever I change the driverside axle...I have to remove the entire intermediate shaft and axle at the same time then beat it off with a hammer...so obviously the c-clip is doing it's job right?
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Old 03-27-2010, 06:41 PM   #22
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Default Re: Hearing knocking noise when turning left...HELP PLEASE. It's not the axle.

So wait a second...you got the tranny fixed and it's still knocking?

And BrakeExpert is back on here? Or did you talk to him over at the "other" H-T?


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Old 03-27-2010, 06:55 PM   #23
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Default Re: Hearing knocking noise when turning left...HELP PLEASE. It's not the axle.

Quote:
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So wait a second...you got the tranny fixed and it's still knocking?

And BrakeExpert is back on here? Or did you talk to him over at the "other" H-T?


.

Yup, it's gotta have something to do with the axle or intermediate shaft. The intermediate shaft is the only part that hasn't been replaced yet.

Yes, I talked to Brake Expert on the other site.
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Old 03-27-2010, 07:05 PM   #24
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Default Re: Hearing knocking noise when turning left...HELP PLEASE. It's not the axle.

I guess there could be play if the intermediate shaft bearing was worn out...but that's a real long shot.


Quote:
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Yes, I talked to Brake Expert on the other site.
Thought so when I saw the ZeroForum style quotes.
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Old 03-27-2010, 07:07 PM   #25
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Default Re: Hearing knocking noise when turning left...HELP PLEASE. It's not the axle.

So there's absolutely no chance it could be a suspension part?
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