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Old 04-12-2009, 07:18 PM   #1
ashb82
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Default Turbo F22 build H22 rods 4g63 pistons low compression

ENGINE MADE 365hp 300tq reving to 8k

I have been getting all my parts and math together for about a month now. I have been wanting to build a low compression f22a/b stock sleeve and not have to bore them out. It was not that many companies that make f22a/b pistons and even fewer companies that make Forged rods. The cost of the parts was way to much for me. Then the next factor you have to look at is a f22a/b has a very bad rod to stroke ratio. It was just not economic to build a turbo f22 engine. i have been reading about d16 guys using vitara pistons so thought if they pulled pistons from a Suzuki maybe i could find a piston from another engine.so i found that 4g63 is 85mm just like a f22. I then Noticed the wrist pin was the same diameter on a 7 bolt engine .866 nothing added up. Then i noticed that there was a 9:1 4g63 stroker engine that used a 4g64 crank. so i started adding up all the deck heights, compression heights, stroke and rod lengths , I got my pistons for extrempsi.com for 398$ shipped. I bid on ebay and got a set of h22 h beam 4340 rods for 100$
So this is what i found is

F22 stock parts
Rod LENGTH 5.572
Comp Height 1.203
Stroke 3.740/2
all that = 8.645
Block Deck Height is 8.643

F22 H22 Rods 4g63 stroker pistons
Rod LENGTH 5.633 (h22 rod)
Comp Height 1.130 (Wiseco part# K596M85)
Stroke 3.740/2 (f22 crank)
All that = 8.633



So with block height of 8.643 that means the piston will set in the block .010 that is near perfect and going to keep the compression below 9:1 and use a longer h22 rod. I called wiseco and talk to them about it they told me it would work with no problems. the engineer at wiseco though it was great that i had figures all this out . It should have no problems working what so ever the only thing that will be odd is i will have to turn the piston 180* be cause the 4g63 crank turns clockwise and a f22 turns counter clockwise. I have all my parts in and ready to get that bottom end together. I am going to call Bisimoto monday about my getting a f22 cam ground. I am going to use a holset turbo and make my own manifold.

here is a Compression Calculator

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here are some pics of the parts

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I have filled the block with devcon liquid aluminum to help keep the sleeves from shifting under high boost and higher than stock revs

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here are the forged piston longer rod combo weight vs stock.

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I polished the crank to get a better finish and also to get looser bearing clearance i wanted .002 clearance to alway across the crank i just think it helps with higher revs

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I use a ball anvil micrometer to check my bearing size it is a lot more precision than a dial caliper i feel if you do your math by taken the rod or main bore size add the bearing thickness then subtract the crank size it will give you a much easier out come than plasti gauge. also the acl bearing where +/- .0001 for those guys that always hate on acl

][Click the image to open in full size.
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I always use a microfiber rag and paint thinner to clean my parts they do not leave lent on my parts like paper towels or shop rags
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checking my piston to wall clearances i had to go with .0045 a little loose but should be just fine
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block after cleaning
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with the slugs installed
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Make sure you install your piston with the dot towards the transmission side of the block

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you can see in the red the piston from deck which i had resurfaced and still have about .005
Click the image to open in full size.

ENGINE MADE 365whp/300tq on 16psi

Last edited by ashb82; 09-21-2011 at 02:39 AM.
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Old 04-12-2009, 07:46 PM   #2
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Default Re: Turbo F22 build H22 rods 4g63 pistons low compression

:thumbs up: I am also using the H22 rod with a set of 29mm compression height pistons. I went the other route though - 11.7:1cr

The valve reliefs on those 4g63's look a bit off from the F22 Piston. Have you compared them/tried them out to see what the piston to valve clearance is? It may not matter with a piston dish that deep.
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Old 04-12-2009, 07:50 PM   #3
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Default Re: Turbo F22 build H22 rods 4g63 pistons low compression

no but the guys at wiseco said it would be easy to cut the valve relief out it i have to. Because they dont think there is anyway to the valves could be farther apart. I am hoping i dont have to do that but if i do i have a milling machine
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Old 04-13-2009, 04:58 AM   #4
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Default Re: Turbo F22 build H22 rods 4g63 pistons low compression

yeah i think you can get them all the way to 87mm. THis is a very popular piston for dsm guys so every piston manufacuter makes them je cp etc. also the engineer at wiseco told me the valve relief is machined the same size on intake and exhaust side of the pistons. so running them backwards does not change anything.

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Old 04-13-2009, 05:30 PM   #5
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Default Re: Turbo F22 build H22 rods 4g63 pistons low compression

the valve relief look like the same location but a lot deeper

Click the image to open in full size.

Last edited by ashb82; 04-13-2009 at 05:47 PM.
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Old 04-14-2009, 05:05 PM   #6
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Default Re: Turbo F22 build H22 rods 4g63 pistons low compression

you rule man.

i'm gonna rock this path i think... EXCITED
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Old 04-14-2009, 07:59 PM   #7
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Default Re: Turbo F22 build H22 rods 4g63 pistons low compression

looks like its going to be a bad *** build... im glad to see someone building an accord rather then seeing someone building a b series/d series on a civic
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Old 04-15-2009, 02:36 AM   #8
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Default Re: Turbo F22 build H22 rods 4g63 pistons low compression

actually this is in a civic i just thought the accord guys would find it more helpful than the civic guys. Its funny most guys at the track think my car is a d series
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Old 04-15-2009, 02:50 AM   #9
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Default Re: Turbo F22 build H22 rods 4g63 pistons low compression

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Originally Posted by ashb82 View Post
actually this is in a civic i just thought the accord guys would find it more helpful than the civic guys. Its funny most guys at the track think my car is a d series
In for more info... I would have went this troute on ther way to the H. Like to see some 500+ WHP stock sleweve F22s come about


Well played
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Old 04-15-2009, 03:23 AM   #10
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Default Re: Turbo F22 build H22 rods 4g63 pistons low compression

500hp me to i found a guy with a wheel dyno in his garage that never uses it. he got it from a nascar team that moved to a new shop.
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Old 04-15-2009, 03:33 AM   #11
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Default Re: Turbo F22 build H22 rods 4g63 pistons low compression

really? interesting
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Old 04-15-2009, 07:57 AM   #12
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Default Re: Turbo F22 build H22 rods 4g63 pistons low compression

in for this build as well... i just got my turbo f22 running last night...

once i blow this one up i will build one for real power.


BUMP!!
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Old 04-15-2009, 08:27 AM   #13
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Default Re: Turbo F22 build H22 rods 4g63 pistons low compression

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in for this build as well... i just got my turbo f22 running last night...

once i blow this one up i will build one for real power.
I am fascinated that people still think this way. Good old shade tree mechanics mentality good luck.

Be sure to at least document the failures. That way you can at least learn something from blowing it up.
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Old 04-15-2009, 08:47 AM   #14
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Default Re: Turbo F22 build H22 rods 4g63 pistons low compression

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in for this build as well... i just got my turbo f22 running last night...

once i blow this one up i will build one for real power.


BUMP!!
man look into using crome you will not blow it up using crome i cant blow mine up. I love crome best thing that ever happen to me

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Old 04-15-2009, 09:42 AM   #15
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Default Re: Turbo F22 build H22 rods 4g63 pistons low compression

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man look into using crome you want blow it up i cant blow mine up
If you blew anything up on Crome, its whoever tuned its fault... I made well over 600whp for over 2 years on it and I beat the **** out of my car. I think that belongs in another thread... This one has alot of potential for the F guys... Lets keep it that way and flame EMSs in another
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Old 04-17-2009, 01:13 PM   #16
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Default Re: Turbo F22 build H22 rods 4g63 pistons low compression

i talked to a wiseco vendor a while ago and he said he could have an f22 piston made with the wrist pins moved up to accommodate the longer h22 rod for about 150 more then what you paid for your slugs.
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Old 04-17-2009, 06:06 PM   #17
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Default Re: Turbo F22 build H22 rods 4g63 pistons low compression

well if this works why pay more
should have the bottom end apart tomorrow cleaned and decked. i talked to bisi about my cam, he recommended the turbo 1.2 cam. so i am getting the 1.2 turbo grind and pro valve springs. I am looking at making a intake manifold adaptor to put a h22 manifold on
f22a head.
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Old 04-18-2009, 04:30 AM   #18
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Default Re: Turbo F22 build H22 rods 4g63 pistons low compression

you need one of my intake manifolds....too bad i'm not set up to make them yet, sorry...

i'm running a slight variant of the 1.2 cam by bisi... its AMAZING.
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Old 04-18-2009, 05:06 PM   #19
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Default Re: Turbo F22 build H22 rods 4g63 pistons low compression

yeah i would like to have one like yours also it looks first class
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Old 04-19-2009, 02:08 PM   #20
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Default Re: Turbo F22 build H22 rods 4g63 pistons low compression

got my engine took apart it looks like the high milage f22 bottom end had some wear on it. i cleaned up the cylinders and should have .0045 piston to wall clearance on 3 cylinders and .005 clearance on 1 of my cylinders. i know its a little wide but i am going to run it. I read alot of post from this site and other sites. some guys are runing as much as .008 clearance. worst thing would be piston slap.
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Old 04-19-2009, 06:06 PM   #21
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Default Re: Turbo F22 build H22 rods 4g63 pistons low compression

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Originally Posted by ashb82 View Post
got my engine took apart it looks like the high milage f22 bottom end had some wear on it. i cleaned up the cylinders and should have .0045 piston to wall clearance on 3 cylinders and .005 clearance on 1 of my cylinders. i know its a little wide but i am going to run it. I read alot of post from this site and other sites. some guys are runing as much as .008 clearance. worst thing would be piston slap.

Piston to wall is PERFECT for a motor thats going to see a bunch of boost. I had my old motor at .0045 to START after My Endyns **** themselves at the reccomended .0032. Its just a TAD noisy when cold, but once warm its not even noticable.

I have since had to pull the motor apart to inspect it after an over rev and broken oil pump gear..... Re used the CPS, new rings, new pump...and had the block straight honed to .0062 piston to wall.... Not 1 issue. Sure its loud when its cold, but im really good about letting it warm up and it just made 675WHP on th rebuild.

Youll be FINE


:O)
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Old 04-19-2009, 06:39 PM   #22
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Default Re: Turbo F22 build H22 rods 4g63 pistons low compression

well i fill better now i have talked to a guy that has done machine work for over 30 years. he has a inhouse dyno at his shop he has done work for Shawn Gann and Darrel Cox racing. he told me to that he has run any thing from .003 to .010 on wiseco pistons. he said that over .008 you have to much oil useage. he also told me that a taper bore the best. but that is a big hp secrete that most people dont talk about. I started asking him more about the taper bore and he would not comment anymore on it. but from what i under stand you would start the very bottom of the bore at like .006 and at top of bore you would have .003. i have no idea how this would give you more hp but he says it does.Also i have took the piston and relocated them to different cylinders so i have about .0045 on all pistons
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Old 04-19-2009, 09:43 PM   #23
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Default Re: Turbo F22 build H22 rods 4g63 pistons low compression

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashb82 View Post
well i fill better now i have talked to a guy that has done machine work for over 30 years. he has a inhouse dyno at his shop he has done work for Shawn Gann and Darrel Cox racing. he told me to that he has run any thing from .003 to .010 on wiseco pistons. he said that over .008 you have to much oil useage. he also told me that a taper bore the best. but that is a big hp secrete that most people dont talk about. I started asking him more about the taper bore and he would not comment anymore on it. but from what i under stand you would start the very bottom of the bore at like .006 and at top of bore you would have .003. i have no idea how this would give you more hp but he says it does.Also i have took the piston and relocated them to different cylinders so i have about .0045 on all pistons

A tapered bore isnt exactly a secret.. Or new... or in your case worth it. Dont **** with it. .0045... Youll be absolutely fine with NO coatings or anything else. Just stud the bitch, go 5-10 lbs tighter on the studs (OEM HG) and that **** weill make GREAT power.


.0045 is a NICE SAFE spec. Youll be able to make ALOT of power on it.
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Old 04-20-2009, 02:32 PM   #24
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Default Re: Turbo F22 build H22 rods 4g63 pistons low compression

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well if this works why pay more
props for figuring it out.

but with slugs spec'd for the f22 you dont have to put the pistons in upside down 180* and/or worry about the valve reliefs/compression heights. 550 was quoted a while ago, ive seen plenty of vendors in the marketplace that have said they can have pistons custom cut at under 500.
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Old 04-21-2009, 05:38 PM   #25
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Default Re: Turbo F22 build H22 rods 4g63 pistons low compression

was hoping to have the bottom end together tonight but the main bearing where the incorrect bearings for a h22a4 55mm mains. About got it all blue printed but then this oh well
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