jt-sport

Help, 311 WHP B20vtec NA only running high 11 !!!


We’re currently running our B20vtec golden eagle sleved block,

Engine specs was :
*PR3 Head
ORD Engineering Square Port
Skunk2 Pro 3 with Pro Series Springs n Ret

*Golden Eagle Sleeved B20
95mm custom crank
86mm custom arias gas ported piston 15.5:1
RPM custom lenght rod
Total Seal Gapless Rings

*Twin Weber 4 Barel 50mm
*ORD Engineering Side Exit Header
*VP Q16 race fuel

We’re happy with it horsepower :

the blue line is not the final tune, still moving up by changing carb jetting and ignition timing

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Chassis, suspension, drivetrain and tyre setup :
About the chassis and suspension setup, we’re about 700kg without driver.

I’ve using cusco zero 1 suspension

Front :
16kg front springs,
Using limited strap, so the front end didnt lift up during launch

Rear : 24kg rear springs

The gearing was 3.0 ATS 1st gear with 4.0 Final Gear
The differential was none ! since we’re using Spool diff.
The Tyre was MT 24.5x9x13 with 6 psi (I think this tyre was good ennough)



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Problems :
But we’re sad about this car ET
It clock 11.7 sec with 120mph (total time was 12.4 sec, ET 11.7sec + RT 0.6sec)
And that was the best ET ever for us, our average was only 12.0 sec
The 1st gear launch was very sucks
suck traction, maybe i think it because we're running carbs... we canot launch at lower rpm ( is it ?? )
this car spinning everywhere..

this how crappy our launch..
You could hear how long (around 2.2second) we hold the throttle pedal before we could slam it to the floor…
and when we shift to 2nd gear, it still spinning like mad

I know our track was sucks, It doesn’t have burnout box, and didn’t use some kinda LC6 VP on their first 10 meter.

But when I see malaysian guy that also running on the almost same track with us (no burnout box, no special treatment for its asphalt, etc).
Those singaporean and malaysian guy could clock 11.1 sec with only 290 BHP (250-260whp ish) on same dyno with us (dastek dyno).
And also H3 KUPS racing in philipines running 10.2 sec with their b20vtec on same crappy racing track just like us (you could search H3 KUPS on youtube).
So im feel really stupid by making this tons of horsepower but only running high 11 and avereaging 12.0 sec.



Please help me to improve my ET
--------------------------------------------
My next plan (i dont know if it good plan or not, please advice)
1. we plan to change with Fuel Injection (Victor X 75mm TB with Apexi FC Comander or Motec M4), because we want to launch in lower RPM, we hope we could gain more traction by launching at lower RPM. I saw H3 KUPS racing from philipines launch @ 2000rpm and they clock 10.2 second on the same crappy track just like us (indonesian drag racing track)
2. we plan to run MT 26x10.5x15 with L4 special compound to gain more traction, I know its sounds crazy. But I don’t have any idea left to improve my traction.


Please give any comment or guideline for me.



Thanks,


Merry Christmast and Happy New Year

all motor junkie

let me drive it.... ; )

4g hatch

if your trapping 120mph then your power is there. what are you lauchning at now.that 2.2 60'footer is killing you. also is that 4.0 final drive a little low

mx621

wow, that looks like a street with a tree. with no type of track prep, or rubber laid down, u will have traction prolems. with that mph, that is def a very low 11 sec car. cool setup

jt-sport

yep, it was a totally STREET with Xmast Tree,

that the race track we have down here..


sir, what do you mean with "RUBBER LAID DOWN"...???

if it posible, i'll try it on the track

jt-sport

hehehe..

come here to Indonesia, i'll let you drive it if you guarantee you could bring this thing low 11

jt-sport

im launching @5500rpm
60ft was crappy 2.0 sec..

i wouldn go higher that 4.0 (excep i use bigger tyre i.e 26), because @ 4th gear it slice the finish line @ 9000-9100rpm

kyden

i've never seen anyone run slicks without doing a burnout first. that is your first problem.

secondly, what are your gear ratios? it doesn't seem right that you're hitting redline in fourth with a 4.4 final and 24.5" slicks.

mx621

dragstrips have a layer of rubber that has accumulated overtime. this layer offers much better traction than the bare street. and for events the track will spray traction compound to even further enhance grip.

you should bring a pump sprayer with water in it. spray the asfault down with water so u can do a burout and hot those tires hotter and stickier. just doing
a burnout will help.

i have herd that grape soda can be used as a traction compound with good results. of corse it would have to dry first, lol.. if you had a empty street you could try it.

k20coupe

Nice numbers

DonF

What is a good 0-60 time for FWD at YOUR track.

d15Beta

i agree with donF's question... start off by figuring out the "best" or atleast the ideal "good" 60ft on that track.. then see how far off u guys are..

the H3/Kups racecar didnt run 10.2 (that's blancheRacing's crx) my friend who owns and built the H3/Kups car ran high 10s, but its only making 260ish whp

on the new sanctioning body here (Philippines) the record is not 10.2 but 10.58sec by another team.. my friend's racecar (260ish whp) is doing 10.8s
the usual good 60ft's here is 1.5s even 1.4s , we're at 1.6-1.7s only..

hope that helps...

d15Beta

id like to add what i know (and no im not a seasoned drag racer )

the 126ish mph was good for 10.9s for us..

ur using a 4.0 FD ? wow that must be slowing u down (not sure about how others view this)

the Kups car (it no longer exists hehe) used to run 26x9.5s and a 4.4fd
^^ should that help u JT ? up the Final drive and use a bigger slick.. maybe the bigger tires help the 60ft or sumthin?

if it was my car (kups) id opt for a 4.7 and try the current 26s, even open the doors to possibly running 28s

i think u guys can run faster.. just a little more chassis tweaking,driving, and possibly tire choices and driveline changes (fd)
we have a 720kg car weight limit.. so i dont think they weight should be that far off from u JT..

hope that helps..

ps. nice seeing u post the target build, get info, come back with data.. and etc

2point6

Get rid of that spool. anytime you have to make a steering adjustment, it is like hitting the brakes slightly. Swith to a LSD and your times will drop.

Also, I agree the 4.0 final is very long. In my opinion a 4.7 final would be a lot better. Your tire size sounds right.

jt-sport

At first I want to say thanks a lot to you guys for the response and input.

I don’t know who’s the best for FWD here, but I think it was still us that have best 60ft in indonesia, since we alwasy eat 11 sec evo 4 wheel (street DOT tyre Evo) easily for 201m.
We got average 2.0ish 60ft. sometimes we could hit 1.9sec.
Because here in indonesia, people only talk about power-power and power. And they never think of their stupidity by making lot of 260-300whp B series that only running 13 sec !

Our goal is, let say… at least we could break malaysian or even philipines ET with the same WHP. Because I know they also using the same crappy track with crappy asphalt and track prep.


And you don, you also the one who cause a lot of trouble to us.

This man is teaching me a lot of way to tweaking brutal horsepower for N/A motors.

And then…. this the problem that we got :p
j/k Don


Anyway Don, Thanks a lot for everything.

ok, I got it.
What is Grape Soda?
Is that some kinda track penetrant just like LC6.?

ok, I’ll try the most burnout that I could do.
But as long as my experience, the smoke from the tyre even doesn’t came up, even tough we rev it to 10K in 1st gear burnout, I’ve use a lot of water on it.
If we’re using 2nd gear, im afraid the gear or driveshaft would be cracked.

For the gear ratio
im running ats :
1st 3.0
2nd 2.105
3rd 1.65ish (im forgot)
4th 1.3ish (also forgot)
5th 1.0ish (idem)

On finish line this car traped @ 9000rpm in 4th gear, if I go higher FD, I think it would be to high rev in 4th gear finish rpm

We plan to run 4.43:1 FD if we run 26” tyre.

Is it a wise chooice?

4.0FD with 4th gear finished RPM in 9000rpm I think wasn’t slowing me down, and im not going to change it for 5 speed game in 402, since kups, blanche racing, and other malaysian low 11 sec was only running 4 speed. It would loose time by that much useless time for shifting. Is that right?

Yep, I would think to run 4.4 by running 26inch bigger slicks

Thanks a lot d15beta, my sohc was lil bit neglected since we’re now focussing at dohc vtec, but don’t worry, my spirit to breaking philipines quickest NA SOHC (12.9) sec was still there, the car was also still here in my garage, the latest et was still 13.1sec with no other touch up, with better traction setup im sure it would broke their (philipines) record.

Thank you sir,
But I’ve try a different type of LSD, but the ET was best when we’re using SPOOL.

About the FD, I’ve explain it above. If I use 4.7 FD on 24.5, im sure it would be finished on 5th gear.
Since we’ve finishd 9000rpm on gear 4th.

jt-sport

At first I want to say thanks a lot to you guys for the response and input.

I don’t know who’s the best for FWD here, but I think it was still us that have best 60ft in indonesia, since we alwasy eat 11 sec evo 4 wheel (street DOT tyre Evo) easily for 201m.
We got average 2.0ish 60ft. sometimes we could hit 1.9sec.
Because here in indonesia, people only talk about power-power and power. And they never think of their stupidity by making lot of 260-300whp B series that only running 13 sec !

Our goal is, let say… at least we could break malaysian or even philipines ET with the same WHP. Because I know they also using the same crappy track with crappy asphalt and track prep.


And you don, you also the one who cause a lot of trouble to us.

This man is teaching me a lot of way to tweaking brutal horsepower for N/A motors.

And then…. this the problem that we got :p
j/k Don


Anyway Don, Thanks a lot for everything.

ok, I got it.
What is Grape Soda?
Is that some kinda track penetrant just like LC6.?

ok, I’ll try the most burnout that I could do.
But as long as my experience, the smoke from the tyre even doesn’t came up, even tough we rev it to 10K in 1st gear burnout, I’ve use a lot of water on it.
If we’re using 2nd gear, im afraid the gear or driveshaft would be cracked.

For the gear ratio
im running ats :
1st 3.0
2nd 2.105
3rd 1.65ish (im forgot)
4th 1.3ish (also forgot)
5th 1.0ish (idem)

On finish line this car traped @ 9000rpm in 4th gear, if I go higher FD, I think it would be to high rev in 4th gear finish rpm

We plan to run 4.43:1 FD if we run 26” tyre.

Is it a wise chooice?

4.0FD with 4th gear finished RPM in 9000rpm I think wasn’t slowing me down, and im not going to change it for 5 speed game in 402, since kups, blanche racing, and other malaysian low 11 sec was only running 4 speed. It would loose time by that much useless time for shifting. Is that right?

Yep, I would think to run 4.4 by running 26inch bigger slicks

Thanks a lot d15beta, my sohc was lil bit neglected since we’re now focussing at dohc vtec, but don’t worry, my spirit to breaking philipines quickest NA SOHC (12.9) sec was still there, the car was also still here in my garage, the latest et was still 13.1sec with no other touch up, with better traction setup im sure it would broke their (philipines) record.

Thank you sir,
But I’ve try a different type of LSD, but the ET was best when we’re using SPOOL.

About the FD, I’ve explain it above. if i change to 4.7, im sure i would be running 5 speed on this car.
since with with that low 4.0 FD i've finished 9000rpm on fourth gear

jt-sport

eehh...
mm...

or maybe i should use stock ITR gearing for this big horsepower...

i never try stock ITR gearing..

d15Beta

the R gearing is nice.. on the 2-3-4 i think.. not sure..

my point when going 4.4fd was only if u change to 26in.

- we myt... and i really mean.. might.. (because no ones sure LOL) try 26s with 4.7 or even 28s with 4.7 ,


ur sohc can do more than 12.9s for sure...

maybe wen i finish my "other" sohc we can share data and info.. as my goal is to also go mid12s... I HOPE hahaha

ABK

buy 3 gallons of VHT and donate it to that track, tell them to scrape all the rubber off and spray it down with vht (60 foot and past as much as it goes). Then burn it with a torch. Learn how to slip the clutch, out of high rpms (if you clutch doesn't slip get a lighter clutch). You should be cutting 1.4-1.5 60 foots with that car easily. 60 foot is what gives you good times.
You also need a waterbox to do a decent burn out of it (2nd or 3rd gear), you cannot run cold slicks it's pretty much useless. Prep is a key to a good launch.

crx=si

with 200whp in a car that weight about the same as your car, mine went 11.8 @ 116mph
like 8yrs ago, granted the trap is lower than your, but 120mph is kinda slow for 310whp, you should be trapping close to 128-130mph, and wheel spin will give you a higher trap too, that suggest something is not right with the hp figure, can you post your entire timeslip? like 60', 330, 1/8, 1/8mph, etc.?

jt-sport

thats what im trying to approach with the race event organizer, because the track that we wanted to go now is also a circuit touring track that have a 800m straight line..

thank you for your guidline about making a laid rubber

so you mean i should launch at high rpm (arround 6-7k) wilth sliping the clutch?
i use ogura complete set system, i'll try it with it...
and tomorow i would do the best burnout that we could..

thank sir !

jt-sport

but im affraid the powerband would lost between shift..
because this car peak torque was on 7.6k and i shift it on 9.3k.. it does well everytime we shift gear the rpm goes down almost right on the peak torque...

what do you think if i use a stock 1st itr gearing? but 3-4-5 is the ats gear..
so i could launch with a very minimum rpm could take..

for the 26 inch tyre im sure i would use it the next event, since we've already ordered it..
and MT have the last stock of their 26x15x10.5 wiht L4 (softest of MT) compound..

thanks God

anyway thanks for the SOHC, i still keep the spirit of it.. and many improvement we would do on our d17 :

jt-sport

oh ya, talking about this 'kinda low mph'
im using ultralight crankshaft, would it be to light for us for the rotating mass of the crankshaft to bear this 700kg car (without driver) ? even tough we've using close ratio gear from 1st-5th

some guy told me to use a bit heavier crankshaft.. is that relevant sir.?

tomorow sir, next event i would reach the et print out.

d15Beta

hmmm now knowing that u have an ATS close geared trans...


the 26in kinda makes sense.. amd possible a 4.2fd or even a 4.4

goin biger tires automatically would emulat an even lower FD equivalent right?
so go 26. and then try a 4.2 or 4.4

if u end up in the same rpm ranges in shift, and thru the traps..
atleast now u have a bigger slick running (bigger contact patch) maybe?

TorganFM.

Probably a stupid question, but what are you using clutch wise?