descartesfool

One also needs to consider heat cycles for R- compounds if you drive them a signifiacnt distance on the street to get to the track. Each drive to the track will be one heat cycle more or less, and then add another for the way back. R compounds get significantly slower with too many heat cycles. I always drive to the track on tires I don't care much about and then switch to R compounds. Yoko 032's were my tire of choice to drive to the track, as they were quite good in the rain if I had to use them. Then Sport Cups for the track.

o-man

The tires didn't drop off mch if any, until you could barely see the grooves in them. Flip them on rims every 2-3 events. If memory serves me correctly, I got 8ish weekends out of them. This is only running them on the front. The rears, which were USED V700's have just about given up the goat after 2 years

blinx9900

for what its worth i got 2000 miles on my NT01's with about 340whp in a 2270lb civic hatchback. the fronts are pretty much at the wear indicator, i did a lot of burnouts at LACR when it was open and a lot of canyon runs, about 60+... I'm sure they would wear out exponentially faster on an actual road course...

EDIT: just wanted to add this was my second set of R comps, first being the now discontinued Bridgestone Potenza RE540s's, loved those things, i believe i got closer to 5000miles out of those street driving but back then i had a stock motor and it was just normal driving.


Modified by blinx9900 at 6:08 PM 9/29/2008

George Knighton

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by o-man &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">...just about given up the goat after 2 years</TD></TR></TABLE>
Given up the goat?

Given up the <u>goat</u>??

What the devil kind of Carolina speak is that?

Two year old crappy V700. Fine. Just fine.

Please do not hesitate to continue to point out to us that you are continuing to repeatedly lap us while spending 10% of the money the rest of us are spending.

Dammit.

o-man

Gramps, you know the rear tires are there to keep the gas tank from scraping.

mrlegoman

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by o-man &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I usually drive back and forth to VIR on RA-1's. 60miles one way. So over the course of a weekend, I put 240 street miles on them. I see no wear on them from the street. Maybe because its a relatively light CRX</TD></TR></TABLE>During the driving back and forth, is their concern of 'adding another heat cycle' to the tires? Or the fact that they really don't get heated up during the commute means it's not an issue.

The G-Man

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jeff_B &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Thanks for the great responses. I live in So Cal, so wet traction isn't a big concern for me. Also, I hardly ever drive the car on the street (besides to and from track) because I have a daily. The value factor is what I care most about - how fast I will be wearing them driving to and from the track (all highway miles). </TD></TR></TABLE>
With an Integra I am sure you can find either a set of steelies, or some OEM alloys in 4x100 dirt cheap with tires.

Jeff_B

I ordered the NT-01s, so if anyone has a set of cheap 15" 4x100 wheels with tires, let me know!

Jeff_B

Hey guys, what camber settings do you recommend for these tires on a DC2 Integra? I remember reading that the R888 require less negative camber than the RA1s, but don't know if that's true of it the same applies to the NT-01. Currently I'm running -2.5F/-1.5R.

L8APX

^ I'm running -3f and -1.8r, and I am very happy with performance and tire wear.

it's not a daily driver though.

nsxtasy

In case anyone's wondering what I decided to do... I was able to last the season on the tires I have, but I'll need new ones before my first event in the spring (first week of April). My plan is to buy a set of four in late winter. The R888 is a bit more expensive than the NT-01 or RA-1, so I'll probably go with the NT-01. Here are the lowest prices I've found, all for 205/50-15:

Toyo RA-1 $121 plus shipping from onlinetires.com
Toyo R888 $131.63 plus shipping from td4l.com
Nitto NT-01 $119 plus shipping from onlinetires.com (or $136 with free shipping from Discount Tire Direct)

irev210

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nsxtasy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">In case anyone's wondering what I decided to do... I was able to last the season on the tires I have, but I'll need new ones before my first event in the spring (first week of April). My plan is to buy a set of four in late winter. The R888 is a bit more expensive than the NT-01 or RA-1, so I'll probably go with the NT-01. Here are the lowest prices I've found, all for 205/50-15:

Toyo RA-1 $121 plus shipping from onlinetires.com
Toyo R888 $131.63 plus shipping from td4l.com
Nitto NT-01 $119 plus shipping from onlinetires.com (or $136 with free shipping from Discount Tire Direct)
</TD></TR></TABLE>


Thanks for the help nsxtasy, definitely a killer deal at 119 for the nitto nt-01's from online tires. Online tires also seems to have reasonable shipping charges compared to td4l.com, making the toyo R888's a good amount more expensive.

checking out onlinetires.com reviews though, sounds like the customer service SUCKS so watch out.


Modified by irev210 at 8:34 PM 10/16/2008

Weston

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nscirocco &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">we used ra1 and now r888 as spec tire in canadian touring ..
most of us found that the r888 is stiffer, wider but wears faster

from Toyo:
- Generally, the R-888 has a higher spring rate than RA-1, meaning it is stiffer
- More cornering force per camber angle vs. R-A1
- More cornering force at smaller slip angles
- Overall wider tire
- These will affect car/tire setup
- Testing shows RA1's tendency to produce fast lap times at the end of it's life.
- If racers are testing worn out RA-1s (corded) to new R-888 (shaved), they may see that the RA-1 is faster in some instances.</TD></TR></TABLE>

This matches my experience in 944-Spec. We had RA-1's last year, and R888's this year. Our first event this season was rather cold and a lot of cars were on brand new R888's... most everyone was several seconds faster than ever before on RA-1's, and a new track record was set. I ran old RA-1's and had the same lap times as I did the previous season... I had decent finishes, but I felt compelled to get R888's after what I saw at this event. As the season continued and the temperatures warmed up, we found R888's to be slower and wearing fast. Many of us are unhappy with the R888's due to the wear, cost, and apparent reduction in performance.

I think our performance issues, and possibly some of the wear, is due to car setup and driving style. It seems that the R888's want less camber and less slip angle than the RA-1's, and it's easier to overheat them. Maybe they have a colder operating temperature range, or we're just pushing them too hard and colder outside temps prolonged performance by preventing overheating. I think we're also experiencing contact patch issues with these being wider tires without having wider rims... In 225/50-15, the RA-1's fit a 15x7 rim well, but my theory is that the R888's in that size are getting squeezed. At the optimal tire pressure, most everyone is wearing their R888's right down the middle, as if the tire was overinflated. When we start with lower pressure in order to compensate, we see less performance.

We have been told (and some have also learned from experience) to not shave the R888's. With the RA-1's, you were only supposed to run full tread in the rain, otherwise you wanted them shaved. With the R888's, you want to start them with full tread either way... this is what Toyo told us, and I remember other people coming to this conclusion from their own results as well.

Rain performance is good, even when pretty worn. If conditions are dry, you can, and probably should, rotate them and run them backwards in order to even out the wear. They seem to create a little bit of a howling noise at higher speeds when you do this.

Jeff_B

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Weston &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I think our performance issues, and possibly some of the wear, is due to car setup and driving style. It seems that the R888's want less camber and less slip angle than the RA-1's, and it's easier to overheat them. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I've also read on other sites that they want less camber... does anyone know if this is true for the NT-01s as well?

NTCustoms

treadepot.com has some pretty good prices shipped

Ti3d in

I'm running -3F/-2R camber with NT01's. This is working well for me.

nsxtasy

Getting back to the original choice, Toyo R888 vs Nitto NT-01...

I have my first track event of the season coming up, and had to buy some tires. I won a gift certificate in a raffle that ended up helping me get a good deal from a dealer that sells Nitto. The tires came in today and I picked them up. I haven't even used them yet, but based on my experience, I would almost certainly get the Toyos next time.

Here's the problem. I got four Nitto NT-01 tires of what I assume is a reasonably common size, 205/50-15. When I picked them up and looked at them, I discovered that they were manufactured 46 months ago. WTF??? Four year old tires? I asked the sales guy, and he called Nitto customer service to find out what the deal was. (The tires were shipped to that local dealer from a Nitto warehouse, so I know they weren't sitting around the retailer's warehouse.) Nitto told him that they fill orders on a FIFO (first in first out) basis from inventory, which means you get the oldest tires they have there; however, since they still had four-year-old tires in inventory, it's possible (even likely) they might not have made any tires in that size since then. Nitto also said that you can request a later production date, but they would probably still ship you whatever their oldest tires are, despite the request.

Okay, I know a little bit about tires. Would I use a tire that's been sitting in a temperature (and maybe humidity) controlled warehouse for four years? Yes; the tire is probably still fine. And in the unlikely event there is any slight impact on the tire's performance, it's not that big a deal to me, since I'm only doing HPDE events, I'm not in competition looking for every last hundredth of a second in lap time. (And if I were, I'd be getting Hoosiers anyway.) And I'll probably use them up in a year or two, anyway. But tire manufacturers shouldn't be selling four year old tires! At least, not unless it's as a special closeout. (The Tire Rack occasionally does this, and when they do, they have the production date clearly marked on their website, and give an awesome closeout price to them.) I've never had this happen with any other set of tires I've bought, including lots of sets of Toyo RA-1 and Yokohama A032R. One year old, even two, I could see, but four??? Anyway, I accepted them - with my event coming up, and with the deal I got, I really didn't have much choice unless I wanted to pay a whole lot more money. But next time, I think I'll get the R888.

BTW, I'm guessing most people don't know how to, and/or don't bother to, check the production date when buying tires. It tells how on the Tire Rack website.

Johnny Mac

I attended the Nitto NT-01 tire launch at California Speedway back in 2005, so your tires were probably one of the first batches of that size made.

racebum

i have driven on the nitto 555r2 which comes in the 275 40 17 size. it's the same 100 treadwear but not quite as fast as the nt01 from what i understand. the tires are amazing cold, this by itself could be a benefit in autocross where you are doing 50 second laps and do not ever get the tire up past 200 degrees like you would on a full blown lap session. like all R compounds they do work better warm. a friend of mine has the nt01 on his zr1 and is at 5k street/strip miles and they aren't worn out yet. it may come down to what you enjoy after trying the both of them. it would be nice to find a guy who's driven both on a similar platform before you buy. personally, i'd go with the nitto nt01. can i really explain why? no, just a good experience with other R tires they have made.

btw, i feel your pain on production dates. my street tires are BFG KD's in 205 40 17. they were made late in 2005. however, i only paid 75 each because of this. i would be irked paying full price for a 4 year old tire.

WSC-Hydro

Hey all,

Just reading through the posts, and didn't see any1 that confirmed you could flip the NT-01's on the rim.

Anyone have any experience with this?

Reyes

iTrader: (1)

bringing this back from the dead!

i would also like to know if these can flipped? Also, can anyone provide anymore real world experience with either of these tires?

I'm in the market for new tires and these are the two I'm trying to decide between. I only use the car for HPDE events and it's not driven to or from the track.


so whats the best "bang for my buck"

descartesfool

I ran a set of 225/45/15 Nitto NT-01 last year on my ITR and bigger sizes of the same model on another car, and they worked out well. Some of my buddies ran them also. Grip and wear was good, and price as well. About $140 each from Discount Tire. Not the fastest tire you can buy, but recommended in my book. No need to shave them, unlike RA-1's. I've not run R888's.

RED_90TEG

buy both sets and try them out!

Reyes

iTrader: (1)

hahaha notice when i said "bang for my buck" i dont have to buy tires that often so when i do i want to make sure i'm really getting my moneys worth.

descartesfool,
thanks for the info.

nsxtasy

Yes, I've done it. No problem.

Since creating this topic, I've started using the NT-01 rather than my previous RA-1, so I can give you some feedback now.

The performance of both tires on dry pavement seems pretty similar. They're both R compounds and they grip.

I haven't used them in rain, so I can't speak to that, but I can only guess that it's related to tread pattern and tread depth. IOW, a new RA-1 with 8/32" of tread depth and the diagonal tread grooves is going to give better rain grip than a new NT-01 with 6/32" of tread depth and those big tread blocks. However, once both tires get down to 3/32" or less of tread depth and all you have are those two circumferential tread grooves, they're both going to suck equally on wet pavement.

I'll tell you about treadlife comparisons in a moment, but first, let me describe how I use them, because it affects treadlife. I use 205/50-15 tires on stock 15x6 wheels on my ITR; the two tires are pretty close in price in that size. I don't drive them to and from the track except locally (i.e. between the track and the hotel where I'm staying), so almost all the miles I put on them are track miles. I don't shave either one, so I start using the RA-1 with 8/32" of tread, the NT-01 with 6/32" of tread. When new, I heat cycle them myself by taking them for a drive on public roads to warm them up, then taking them off the car for a couple of days. I rotate the tires to get the most wear out of them; the one with the most outside shoulder starts off on the left front, then as the outside shoulder wears I move it to the right (our tracks run clockwise so the left front gets the most shoulder wear) and also flip it on the rim to even out the treadwear. If everything works out right, they wear evenly across the width of the tread; however, sometimes the belts start showing on the outside shoulder of the tire. When they are just starting to show, I move it to the right rear (which gets the least outside shoulder wear) and get a few hundred more miles out of it until the belts are showing a lot (say 1/2" or more), at which point I trash them. I usually bring extras to the track with me so I don't have to worry about a choice between using trashed tires or going home. I also keep track of all my track miles and which tires were used.

Using the above procedures, I have been averaging 2000 actual track miles for each RA-1 tire - a little more if it works out to get more miles on the rear than the front, a little less if it gets more miles on the front of the car, but 2000 track miles has been pretty consistent. (I'm averaging another 400 street miles along with that, i.e. between the track and the hotel and dinner.) I haven't used up any of the NT-01 I bought new yet, but one is starting to get close, after 800 actual track miles, so I'm guessing I will end up getting somewhere around 1100-1200 actual track miles when I'm all done. The NT-01 also seems like it gets the belts showing along the outer shoulder a bit quicker than the RA-1 does, probably because the shoulder itself is a bit more rounded on the NT-01, a bit squarer on the RA-1.

Bottom line, as you can see, is this: It looks like the NT-01 isn't lasting anywhere near as long as the RA-1, so the RA-1 is the better "bang for the buck".

HTH