ge_itr

planning to get the fluidamper for my h22 from pocketrocket for $324.80, but they said it doesn't include the power steering pulley.

http://pocketrocketsracing.com/flvihadahoh2.html

anyone know a good place to get one? or should i consider the ati damper?

117

Double check the ATI damper. I don't believe they make one for the H22.

EDIT: I just checked and ATI's web site says that H22 dampers are available on request. Very interesting!

As for the Fluidampr, their web site just shows the comp damper with just the alternator pulley.

ge_itr

so when you buy one the dampers, it's suppose include a crank, alternator, and power steering pulley?

Missing Gears

go w/ the ati. fluidampr was having a problem due to using an aluminum hub. it was wearing and twisting the keyway in the crank. i didnt find out about this until after having this problem w/ mine. ati does offer a pulley for h series, you just have to give them a call and order it.

Rosko

iTrader: (1)

I got the fluidamper, its a tight fit for sure.

Missing Gears, do you have a pic of the ATI?

Missing Gears

sorry, i dont have any pics.

next time you remove the fluidampr check the inside of the hub where the keyway goes. make sure neither the keyway or the hub is distorted.

Rosko

iTrader: (1)

hmmn, will do. I know I have to use a puller to get it off, and pretty much have to let the bolt pull it the rest of the way on when installing. Maybe the keyway is too tight? I'll have to measure it next time its off.

ge_itr

does both fuidampr and ati include a crank, alternator, and power steering pulley?

117

Doesn't the ATI also use an aluminum body, though?

What exactly causes the keyway to get distorted? That's very interesting because I just removed a UR pulley from an engine that was sent off to be built. The pulley looked perfect, and it's aluminum as well, although not as heavy as a damper.

bb_one

I can't speak for the ATI damper but on the fluidampr, it only has provisions for the Alternator/AC belt, no PS belt.

TO respond to ge_itr, the harmonic dampener is installed as the crank pulley, no other pullies are provided. This is not a pulley set. The purpose of a harmonic dampener is to dampen crank harmonics.
With the fluidampr converting crank harmonics into heat and the ATI via tuned bands.

On the fluidampr, you WILL need a gear puller to pull the damper off. It was made to have press fit with the crank snout.

I have installed/removed my fluidampr about 3 times without noticing any distortions in the keyway or hub. I did however use a new keyway the first time I installed the damper.

ge_itr

i forgot if the power steering belt connects to the crank pulley but will i still get power steering if i put on the fluidampr? the fluidampr is kind of like a replacement for the crank pulley w/ performance effectiveness and does not eliminate any of the stock features correct?

Rosko

iTrader: (1)

whatever is ran by the alternator belt you will keep. thats it.

bb_one

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ge_itr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i forgot if the power steering belt connects to the crank pulley but will i still get power steering if i put on the fluidampr? the fluidampr is kind of like a replacement for the crank pulley w/ performance effectiveness and does not eliminate any of the stock features correct?</TD></TR></TABLE>

You WILL lose power steering. The fluidampr DOES NOT have a provision to drive the PS belt.

Missing Gears

the fluidampr is a press fit and goes on realatively easy using a small amount of antisieze on the snout of the crank. it also removes very easy using a puller.

all the ati pullies i have seen use a steel hub. i had the opportunity to speak w/ an ati engineer in person at a local autoshow as i live within 25 miles of ati. i wouldnt use anything but ati from now on.

i was informed of the problem w/ the fluidampr by a proffesional engine builder who specializes in honda race motors. i didnt find out about the problem w/ the hubs until after i had already purchased the fluidampr. i was told that the hub is made of a "soft" aluminum and has not been holding up very well in some applications. the fit of the keyway in the groove wasnt as tight as it needed to be and allowed movement in some cases and because of the way the pulley was made the keyway only went about halfway into the groove along w/ it being made of aluminum would allow it to twist the keyway and distort the groove in the hub.

my experience went as follows:
i was running the pully on my motor and liked it so far. at the track i had a misshift from 3rd to 2nd w/ a video cam in the car the tach went to 12k. motor didnt shut itself off, i coasted to the return road, the car seemed to idle fine. i looked at my oil press. it read 0. to make a long story short, i blew the oil pump gear apart. keep in mind i was making 276whp/206wtq dynojet #s. when i started the teardown and removed the pulley i noticed sure enough that half the groove in the hub was badly distorted and the keyway was severly twisted. i honestly didnt believe it at first. i called the engine builder back and discussed it w/ him. we were in agreement that the design of the pulley was its fault. the keyway only being able to sit halfway through the hub didnt offer enough strenght for circumstances like this. the engine builder had told me he had already spoke w/ fluidampr several times about this and they were supposedly trying to correct the problem. he also told me to give them a call and let them know what had happen and he would also call on my behalf to set things right. so i called them and the person i spoke w/ said that he wasnt aware of any problem.after the engine builder called them, they called me back and refunded my $$. i will never purchase one again.

117

It really sounds like the over-rev is what distorted the key way in the pulley. Perhaps the design of the pulley had a bit to do with it, but I'd think it would be the over-rev, mostly.

I have a friend that I'm building an engine for now. It's a 98 Prelude that he runs in HC and SCCA ITS. He over-reved the engine so bad that it warped the Fidanza flywheel, shattered the oil pump gear, and warped the pressure plate. He was running a UR pulley to top it off (I can't talk him out of it). The UR pulley had absolutely no damage on it, but the keyway in the crank snout was slightly distorted. Enough that I couldn't get the balancer belt pulley or the timing belt pulley off the snout without removing some material on the crank snout around the edges of the key way.

We know it warped both the flywheel and the pressure plate because the pressure plate would bolt to the flywheel no problem, but it wouldn't bolt to a new Fidanza flywheel. Likewise, the new CC pressure plate wouldn't bolt to the old Fidanza flywheel!! I really couldn't believe it, and I wouldn't believe it if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes.

Now would this necessarily mean that Fidanza flywheels and Competition Clutch pressure plates are crap? I wouldn't think so.

My point is that I wouldn't be so quick to blame the entire problem on the pulley, but that's me. No offense to you at all. You appear to be very knowledgeable to me. :thumbsup:

Doesn't Jim Justice use Fluidampr? I know Endyn does.

Are you running an ATI H22 pulley now? After doing some research, I think I'd prefer to do an ATI on my current build, but I haven't received a price quote yet.

Speedra500

Why was your motor able to spin to 12k? If you have that much power I would assume you have a standalone, and many other parts or at least something to limit your rpm, like ign cut?

Missing Gears

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Speedra500 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Why was your motor able to spin to 12k? If you have that much power I would assume you have a standalone, and many other parts or at least something to limit your rpm, like ign cut?</TD></TR></TABLE>

its called a mechanical overrev. rev limiters dont help when you downshift to the wrong gear

Missing Gears

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 117 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It really sounds like the over-rev is what distorted the key way in the pulley. Perhaps the design of the pulley had a bit to do with it, but I'd think it would be the over-rev, mostly.

I have a friend that I'm building an engine for now. It's a 98 Prelude that he runs in HC and SCCA ITS. He over-reved the engine so bad that it warped the Fidanza flywheel, shattered the oil pump gear, and warped the pressure plate. He was running a UR pulley to top it off (I can't talk him out of it). The UR pulley had absolutely no damage on it, but the keyway in the crank snout was slightly distorted. Enough that I couldn't get the balancer belt pulley or the timing belt pulley off the snout without removing some material on the crank snout around the edges of the key way.

We know it warped both the flywheel and the pressure plate because the pressure plate would bolt to the flywheel no problem, but it wouldn't bolt to a new Fidanza flywheel. Likewise, the new CC pressure plate wouldn't bolt to the old Fidanza flywheel!! I really couldn't believe it, and I wouldn't believe it if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes.

Now would this necessarily mean that Fidanza flywheels and Competition Clutch pressure plates are crap? I wouldn't think so.

My point is that I wouldn't be so quick to blame the entire problem on the pulley, but that's me. No offense to you at all. You appear to be very knowledgeable to me. :thumbsup:

Doesn't Jim Justice use Fluidampr? I know Endyn does.

Are you running an ATI H22 pulley now? After doing some research, I think I'd prefer to do an ATI on my current build, but I haven't received a price quote yet.</TD></TR></TABLE>

pm sent.

alterdcreations

good god thats a hard mishift

alterdcreations

also are you sure that his flywheel wasn't warped from repeated track abuse?
i dont really see a misshift warping a flywheel. more like repeated abuse on the track, taking the aluminum thru repeated heat cycling
just a thought

117

I don't think so because he had gone through 2 or 3 clutches on the same flywheel with no problems until the over-rev. The trans had been taken out of the car a few times, IIRC.

alterdcreations

damn
how about the condition of the bearings.

mgags7

not that i probably need to tell you guys, but if you use the right hand motions to shift it is nearly impossible to go 3rd to 2nd....

ill see if i can find the page with the pics of it, but you basically face your palm away from you, wrap your fingers around the **** in 3rd, and pull down to 4th, that way there isn't any way to go to the left, as your hand opposes that motion.....

when you fist grip it and pull down for 4th you most likely pull some towards yourself every time.....I did that misshift twice in the past and was very lucky I didn't mess anything up, now I won't ever grip a shifter like that again.

randy, what the ati guy have to say about the fluidampr, my understanding was that the ati just used rubber disks that were tuned for a certain rpm range, while the fluidampr used viscous fluid that can adapt to different rpms.....I don't know enough about the inner workings though.....post up what he said if you remember

mgags7

http://www.shortshifter.com/techniques2.htm

117

I e-mailed ATI. Here is the reply regarding H22 dampers:

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">P/N 918467 (race only no drives, up to 600HP) $449.99
P/N 918469 (race only no drives, over 600HP) $439.99

Damper has 3 bolt Chevy bolt pattern so you have to run Chevy pulleys. Thank you.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I haven't done enough research, but are there any 3 bolt Chevy crank pulleys that have 6 ribs like the Honda pulley, also would they be the right diameter? I wonder if the offset on the ATI damper is such that a Chevy pulley would line up with the stock alt pulley. Has no one on HT tried the H22 ATI crank pulley?

I e-mailed back asking him to clarify, so I'll post the response when I get it.