GOOCH-JDM-ITR

So I successfully intsalled the Legend dual piston calipers into my car. After bleeding the system several times and getting to a point where the pedal is solid, I start the car and the pedal immediately goes soft.
Does anyone have any idea what could be causing this?

Should the car have to be on during the brake bleeding?
The car is a 98 GSR with SS brake lines and 11.1 inch legend rotors and calipers. I completely rebuilt the calipers with new seals and pistons. NO brake fluid appears to be leaking out of any where.




Modified by GOOCH-JDM-ITR at 12:26 PM 12/31/2005

gsr dood

you hve to bleed all the calipers! u def have air in ur lines or one of the nipples isnt tight enough.

numbnuts22715

after you get this all worked out lemme know how much better this works... Also, does anyone know if you can put your front brake's in the back for even more braking power?
i just spent like 200 bucks getting a nice set of rotors and brake pads for the front but I still would like more braking power.
Thanks.. I didnt mean to thread jack or anything.


oh, and where did you get the rotors redrilled to a 4X100 lug pattern?

GOOCH-JDM-ITR

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by gsr dood &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you hve to bleed all the calipers! u def have air in ur lines or one of the nipples isnt tight enough.</TD></TR></TABLE>
SO each caliper is not run on a seperate line? I thought that might isolate the air bubble to just the front.

Any idea why the pedal goes to the floor after starting the engine?


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by numbnuts22715 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">after you get this all worked out lemme know how much better this works... Also, does anyone know if you can put your front brake's in the back for even more braking power?
i just spent like 200 bucks getting a nice set of rotors and brake pads for the front but I still would like more braking power.
Thanks.. I didnt mean to thread jack or anything.


oh, and where did you get the rotors redrilled to a 4X100 lug pattern?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I can tell you right now if I was to do this all over I would spend the extra $300 or so on them mugens (bling factor) I chose to strip all the factory paint to bare metal and then have them machined and then put in all OEM parts and that **** got expensive and the rebuild has consumed most of my vaction time.

The rotors I bought pre-drilled from FAST Brakes (www.fastbrakes.com) which are the thicker sized rotors and are gauranteed for life not to warp. You can also get a kit from them to mount NSX calipers to your rear with larger rotors. But I dont think it would be possible to put the fronts on the rear.

grandmasterflash

theres nothing wrong, the pedal is suppose to go to the floor when you turn on the engine. if the engines off and you keep pressing the brake eventually it will be really stiff almost lock up. i dont really know why but thats how it is.

morepoop4u

iTrader: (1)

You need to have the car running when bleeding because of the abs.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by gsr dood &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you have to bleed all the calipers!</TD></TR></TABLE>

Some motivation for yah

Racermech

Once you bleed everything and the car is running, if the pedal still sinks check out the master cyclinder, it could be going bad and causing your problems.

And does the pedal just sink under constant preasure, or is it just really spongey??? If it sinks I would say the MC, if it is soft and spongey then you have air. Either way bleed all 4 corners and get back to us.

DC2 to AP2

with the legend calipers make sure the bleeders are on the correct side. the right caliper goes on the left and left caliper goes on the right. reason you have to do this is becuase on the legend the caliper are behind the rotors instead forward on your integra.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by numbnuts22715 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">after you get this all worked out lemme know how much better this works... Also, does anyone know if you can put your front brake's in the back for even more braking power?
i just spent like 200 bucks getting a nice set of rotors and brake pads for the front but I still would like more braking power.
Thanks.. I didnt mean to thread jack or anything.


oh, and where did you get the rotors redrilled to a 4X100 lug pattern?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

i ran 96 nsx calipers front and rear.

more motivation for you

1996 nsx calipers in the front.


1996 nsx calipers in the rear.

GOOCH-JDM-ITR

okay Im motivated. How hard was the NSX rear retrofit (compared to the front).

Im sure I will go that route next, but does anyone know if there is a caliper of the same size w/o the NSX markings?

-still bleeding

GOOCH-JDM-ITR

by the way Im at the point where I dont see anymore air coming out of the bleeder screw (clear hose attached). Do I just keep going and assume there is air in the lines?

DC2 to AP2

the retrofit for the rear was straight forward and really easy. do you have the calipers on right?

grandmasterflash

just paint it all one color you wont be able to tell unless you get really really close.

GOOCH-JDM-ITR

yes the right caliper is on the left side and vice versa. Bleeder screw is in the up position.
pedal still takes about 3 pumps to feel solid. This time a little bit of air came out.

gotboostedvr6

for the rear upgrade use 02-03 ep3 calipers and rotors direct bolt on

GOOCH-JDM-ITR

how much bigger are we talking for this EP3 conversion?

kNOwLedGeDA9

You might try uprgrading to an ITR master cylinder. I'm assuming you're using your stock one on bigger brakes.

gotboostedvr6

gsr and itr use 1" 94-01
fixed !


Modified by gotboostedvr6 at 12:02 PM 1/6/2006

gotboostedvr6

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GOOCH-JDM-ITR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">how much bigger are we talking for this EP3 conversion?</TD></TR></TABLE>

10.2

DC2 to AP2

EP3 brake conversion gives you the same rear brakes as a ITR.

kNOwLedGeDA9

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by gotboostedvr6 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">gsr ls and itr use 1" 94-01</TD></TR></TABLE>

AH. I didn't read that his car was a '98. My bad.

GOOCH-JDM-ITR

okay so I have spent all day and some of yesterday bleeding the system. Im pretty damn sure all the air is out of the lines. While the car is off the pedal builds pressure rather fast. Once the engine is started the pedal will go all the way to the floor and then take about 3 pumps to build decent pressure. BUt it feels like it will keep going if I push extra hard. Is it possible my master cylinder has just suddenly pooped out? Damn IT!

GOOCH-JDM-ITR

so does anyone know what the signs of a bad master cylinder are?

Is it possible that since I upgraded to larger calipers the MC needs to much more fluid and thus cant build enough pressure? Where can I get a better/bigger then OEM MC. ITs a 1998 GSR with a 1" NISSIN MC&gt; thanks

morepoop4u

iTrader: (1)

are you bleeding the brakes while the car is running?

GOOCH-JDM-ITR

I have bled the brakes several times with the car off. THen a couple times with the car in the Accesory position. And also with the car ON several times. Probably over 20 full cycles around the car thus far. When I drive around the block the brakes require several pumps to work (if you could call it that) asit barely stops the car at all.

Redline96LX

Clarification of some things:

94-01 Integras do NOT all share master cylinders. In 1998, the bolt pattern of the MC went to that similar to the 96-00 Civic.

Also, on a normal, running civic/teg...when the car is off, the pedal can be pushed to a certain depth. Then after the next few times, get firmer and firmer. Then when you start the car, the engine runs, vacuum from the brake booster kicks in, and the pedal goes down. Engine running doesnt affect bleeding, rather the engine has to be on to offer the power assist.

Legend calipers:

Regardless of all brakes, the bleeder must be pointing up (lateralwise, the bleeder must be above the piston and banjo bolt attachment. With multi-piston calipers, you'll want to use left on left and right on right. rotate the piston till the bleeder is pointing up before bleeding. I have legend calipers on my civic, but they are single piston, so swapping left to right didnt affect braking, just got the bleeder pointing up.