WHAT TEH

PGM-Fi light turns on frequently, but engine still runs strong and smooth, but rich as well. Surprising for an engine with well over 300K miles on it.

Well, I had to take it to a TEST ONLY Center and it failed. I got the history on the car and it had failed 3 times before. I guess that was the reason for the owner trying to get rid of it.

What do you guys think I should do? Not bother trying to pay to get the car smogged for what the car is worth? Or what are the most common areas of the car's engine/emissions system should I check first in regards to getting it to pass SMOG? The guy at the TEST ONLY Center checked the o2 sensor and it was fine. He said it may be the computer. And another thing I mentioned is it could be something as simple as the cat', but then again, I don't know much about these old-school accords.

I appreciate all help. I need to know if it's worth my time and money to get this car smogged or if I should just sell/junk it.

-taF

213374U

Your best bet is to check out http://www.3geez.com Should have some luck there.

ericw

Look at this link and find out what code the computer is giving you and then tell us so we will have a place to start. http://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?t=26342

WHAT TEH

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ericw &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Look at this link and find out what code the computer is giving you and then tell us so we will have a place to start. http://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?t=26342</TD></TR></TABLE>

I checked the ECU under the driver's seat and it blinked 12 times. I know it has something to do with the EGR. Now, what should I do from here? Thanks.

-taF

WHAT TEH

BUMP

P_Adams

I'd suggest an EGR function test. I suspect that ol' 300k is dealing with some clogged arteries (EGR passages), or the EGR itself is non-functionable (or crudded up as well).

P

WHAT TEH

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by P_Adams &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'd suggest an EGR function test. I suspect that ol' 300k is dealing with some clogged arteries (EGR passages), or the EGR itself is non-functionable (or crudded up as well).

P</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm currently going through the Troubleshooting FLow Chart -- EGR System.

"Disconnect #16/#17 hose from EGR valve."

"Connect vacuum pump to EGR valve and apply vacuum."

"Does EGR valve hold vacuum? Did engine stall"

If "YES", Disconnect the #24 hose from the intake manifold and connect to vacuum gauge to intake manifold.

If "NO", Replace EGR valve.

(This is where I'm confused by these couple of questions. I don't think it held vacuum, so "NO", but engine did stall, or actually die, so, "YES". Which route do I take? The "YES" route or the "NO" route when the answer was "NO" & "YES". Or maybe I'm just not understanding these couple of questions correctly.)

(I did the "YES" route anyway just to see through the rest of the steps.)

"Restart engine and check for vacuum."

"Is there vacuum?"

If "YES", Reconnect the #24 hose. If "NO", Repair blockage at port or pinch in the #24 hose.

(My answer was "YES".)

"Disconnect the lower EGR control solenoid valve hose and connect vacuum gauge to the hose. Check for vacuum."

(I have no clue where the lower EGR control solenoid valve hose is. Either I can't find it, I don't have one, or I just am not looking in the right spot.)



TIA,
-taF

P_Adams

First off,
If it didn't hold vacume, ****-can it. The diaphram's ruptured, and just like your GF, you don't want to hear that either

If the EGR held vacume, and the Engine Did Stall - then the EGR (and it's appropriate passages) would function properly if everything else is correct.

If the EGR held vacume, and the engine didn't stall - then either the EGR valve (and/or it's associated passages) are clogged from carbon build-up and require cleaning.

The reference to the #24 hose starts the proceedure by which is determined if the EGR valve is being sent a vacume signal which operates it.

If effect, they split the test into two parts:
1) Test that the EGR system functions as designed
2) Test that the EGR system controls are functioning.

P

WHAT TEH

Where is the lower EGR control solenoid valve hose. That's in the next step of the Troubleshooting Flow Chart -- EGR System.

Also, I accidentally broke this piece. What is it and where could I find a shop that carries it?



Thanks,
-taF


Modified by tallazzFilipino at 1:35 PM 11/10/2005

WHAT TEH

BUMP

-taF

P_Adams

What's that on the plate? Remnants of Shake & Bake Chicken?

You're going to find there will be very few Emissions related parts that don't come from the dealer. It may be quicker to blast over to the local Honda Emporium and let the Parts Guru play "Name That Part!"
Wild guess, but #1 in the illustration looks familiar
http://www.hondaautomotivepart...87%29
Let me see if I can scare up a pic for the lower hose location.
If #16 is the EGR Solenoid Filter, does that make #15 the EGR Solenoid?

P


Modified by P_Adams at 4:46 AM 11/11/2005

WHAT TEH

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by P_Adams &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What's that on the plate? Remnants of Shake & Bake Chicken?

You're going to find there will be very few Emissions related parts that don't come from the dealer. It may be quicker to blast over to the local Honda Emporium and let the Parts Guru play "Name That Part!"
Wild guess, but #1 in the illustration looks familiar
http://www.hondaautomotivepart...87%29
Let me see if I can scare up a pic for the lower hose location.
If #16 is the EGR Solenoid Filter, does that make #15 the EGR Solenoid?

P


Modified by P_Adams at 4:46 AM 11/11/2005</TD></TR></TABLE>

That has been a huge azz help. I appreciate that so much. That part I accidentally broke is pretty expensive. I had ended up already supergluing it back together, lol. I tested it with my vacuum pump/gauge and no leaks.

If I chose not to go through all this troubleshooting process, is/are there any part(s) that I can replace to get the EGR working trouble-free and just be done with it? Or do you recommend doing this process. I hate the steps in this Troubleshooting Flow Chart thingie that I downloaded from 3geez. It's confusing me and I'm more a hands-on person. (One of many examples is, when there's a step that tells me I can now turn the engine off when it never said, before, to turn and leave the engine running, lol.)

I'll try to take more pix and ask what you recommend I do with each part shown in my images.

I just want this car to pass SMOG. NOx is so high. Are you going by the book in troubleshooting this EGR system? Or do you know it well enough that you're doing it your own way? If you can just give me a step-by-step process, that would be better. You know in that diagram in that link you sent me from Majestic Honda... do you clean/replace all that stuff?

Thanks,
-taF

WHAT TEH

i ordered my vacuum chamber. in comparison to the old one, one of the openings/ports of the old one was really clogged. after replacing that piece and starting the car a few times. lots of smogged exited the exhaust system. i'm not sure if that will help me pass SMOG.

what do you suggest i do next?

TIA,
-taF

WHAT TEH

things are looking good as i'm heading on tha right track. says tha guy at tha TEST ONLY Center.
tha first time i brought tha car to tha TEST ONLY Center, tha guy did a dry run (i didn't have to pay). tha car failed at both 15mph and 25mph and tha PGM-Fi light was on. he checked tha o2 sensor and said it was good. he and tha guy at tha Mazda shop next door, didn't know what to tell me.

anyway, coming on here and finding out tha ECU code givin' me a problem with tha EGR system, i was told to first check tha PCV piping and tha vacuum chamber. tha vacuum chamber ended up bein' quite clogged and so i ordered another one. after replacing tha vacuum chamber, tha car smogged up pretty bad, but eventually went away. i poored in some of that fuel injection cleaner stuff into tha gas tank and filled it up. i drove around so tha treatment would cycle through and so my cat' would heat up. i then took it to tha TEST ONLY Center and had tha car tested again (which i had to pay for this time).

surprisingly, tha car passed at 25mph but failed at 15mph. he told me it was runnin' rich and that i may have to check my grounding system, wires to tha map sensor, etc. i asked if tha cat' could have been a factor as well and he told me no, because tha cat' would not have let me pass at 25mph and fail at 15mph.

my question is to any of you experienced technicians or experienced individuals (non-tech') what you suggest i do from here accordin' to my results.

These are tha ASM Emission Test Results @ 15mph

RPM: 1778
%CO2: 12.2
%O2: 0.0

HC (PPM) Gross Polluter Limits: 301
HC (PPM) i measured at: 100

CO (%) Gross Polluter Limits: 2.29
CO (%) i measured at: 4.34

NO (PPM) Gross Polluter Limits: 2039
NO (PPM) i measured at: 183

Result: Gross Polluter

These are tha ASM Emission Test Results @ 25mph

RPM: 1907
%CO2: 14.4
%O2: 0.2

HC (PPM) Gross Polluter Limits: 251
HC (PPM) i measured at: 57

CO (%) Gross Polluter Limites: 2.18
CO (%) i measured at: 0.66

NO (PPM) Gross Polluter Limits: 1839
NO (PPM) i measured at: 238

Result: Pass

i greatly appreciate any feedback and help towards solving this issue,
-taF

cchhrriiiss

Ive passed smog with the egr completely removed with just a block off plate. You just unbolt the hardline off the exhaust manifold and thread in a 12mm bolt. An egr is only around 28 dollars. That seem to be the problem. There are plugs you can remove to clean the egr passages. You should ask this over at http://www.3geez.com

WHAT TEH

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ChrisBrown &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ive passed smog with the egr completely removed with just a block off plate. You just unbolt the hardline off the exhaust manifold and thread in a 12mm bolt. An egr is only around 28 dollars. That seem to be the problem. There are plugs you can remove to clean the egr passages. You should ask this over at http://www.3geez.com</TD></TR></TABLE>

was this CA SMOG? it's a bit more stricter here. also, they have a CA version Accord LXi and a non-CA version. tha first thing tha guy at tha TEST ONLY Center asked me, when i pulled up, was if i had tha black box in my car or not. so, i think that crosses that idea out. as soon as he saw tha engine bein' a PGM-Fi engine, he looked right away for tha EGR system.

which part of tha EGR system are you referrin' to that's only $28? tha actual EGR valve assembly is $191.15 from majestichonda.com.

since tha guy said i was runnin' rich at 15mph, and i saw a receipt in tha car for a timin' belt replaced 9.29.05, and since i noticed my idle is always above 1k rpm, i figure i should retard my timin' some to see if that helps on my re-test.

i appreciate your suggestions and i appreciate any further help i receive towards tha remainin' bit of my problems with this Accord,
-taF

WHAT TEH

BUMP

-taF

Sean Sollars

I have a 1987 Honda Accord LXI that I have spent many hours fixing. The front wheel bearings are a monster to change, but my real question is the same as stated above...PGM FI light comes on, 12 flashes of the red dot is EGR system, try 14 different EGR Valve assemblies and they all do the exact same thing. idles up and down embarrassingly so until it warms up then it just idles fast. Sometimes shutting the car off and on again after it warms up will bring the idle to normal until I get down the road at a steady pace then the PGM FI light comes on again and won't idle properly at all until I restart the car. Sigh. Now I have no 5th gear again, can't put it in reverse, pops out of first...the car is not looking to good right now.

NZXTInerTia

You're obviously new for bumping a 7 year old thread lol. Welcome to HT, have you actually cleaned the passage ways? The valves (14? Really) could be functioning properly but the passages that the gas travels through could be clogged with carbon and debris.

poorman212

The "egr passage ways" are a bit different on a 3rd gen. Have you done any testing on the egr solenoid and vac lines?

For the idle, clean the fitv, wouldn't hurt to do the iacv as well. Also be sure the coolant is full and that there is no air in the system.