To VTEC or To TORQUE?? (d16z6 vs. d16a8)
11-07-2005, 02:24 PM
#26
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Re: (trooper0641)
Not if you spend wisely.
Of course at a certain point, modding a D becomes a money-pit project. But you could say that about any NA build - many pay MUCH more do to <240whp NA on a b-series and are still slower overall than medium/high-budget boosted D setups.
The fact remains that to do a b-series in an EF you need: mounts, a hard to find b16 cable tranny or a worn-out LS tranny, axles, and the motor itself. On average thats $1500-2000. You could buy an entire STD shitbox AND build a d16 that'd keep up with the swap for less. For $1k you can get a mild port job, zc pistons, a zex cam/springs kit, and cheap header to give you enough to eclipse a stock B16.
Of course at a certain point, modding a D becomes a money-pit project. But you could say that about any NA build - many pay MUCH more do to <240whp NA on a b-series and are still slower overall than medium/high-budget boosted D setups.
The fact remains that to do a b-series in an EF you need: mounts, a hard to find b16 cable tranny or a worn-out LS tranny, axles, and the motor itself. On average thats $1500-2000. You could buy an entire STD shitbox AND build a d16 that'd keep up with the swap for less. For $1k you can get a mild port job, zc pistons, a zex cam/springs kit, and cheap header to give you enough to eclipse a stock B16.
11-07-2005, 03:01 PM
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Re: (HiProfile)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HiProfile »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Not if you spend wisely.
...You could buy an entire STD shitbox AND build a d16 that'd keep up with the swap for less...</TD></TR></TABLE>
Thats funny because thats exactly what it seems like i'm doing
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HiProfile »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Not if you spend wisely.
The fact remains that to do a b-series in an EF you need: mounts, a hard to find b16 cable tranny or a worn-out LS tranny, axles, and the motor itself. On average thats $1500-2000. You could buy an entire STD shitbox AND build a d16 that'd keep up with the swap for less. For $1k you can get a mild port job, zc pistons, a zex cam/springs kit, and cheap header to give you enough to eclipse a stock B16.</TD></TR></TABLE>
So my best bet it not to waste $590 on HonData and starting pricing cams, port and polish and so forth
Now starts my new quest for a superior build
...You could buy an entire STD shitbox AND build a d16 that'd keep up with the swap for less...</TD></TR></TABLE>
Thats funny because thats exactly what it seems like i'm doing<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HiProfile »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Not if you spend wisely.
The fact remains that to do a b-series in an EF you need: mounts, a hard to find b16 cable tranny or a worn-out LS tranny, axles, and the motor itself. On average thats $1500-2000. You could buy an entire STD shitbox AND build a d16 that'd keep up with the swap for less. For $1k you can get a mild port job, zc pistons, a zex cam/springs kit, and cheap header to give you enough to eclipse a stock B16.</TD></TR></TABLE>
So my best bet it not to waste $590 on HonData and starting pricing cams, port and polish and so forth
Now starts my new quest for a superior build
11-07-2005, 03:15 PM
#28
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Re: (HiProfile)
DANG this is just turning into another D Vs B debate....i wish i would have listened 6 engines ago (5 D's including a mini-me).....working on D series engines...give GOOOD torque off the line..but is lacking in the top end...sometimes i feel kinda sorry for the joe that puts a crap load into a D. I remember one guy i met at the gas station he has a EG coupe with a Z6...he told me he put close to 3K into the Z6 complete bottom end built, bored .25 over, new rods, new crank, hi comp pistons, then the head work, the P&P the valve springs, the cam, bigger throttle body, larger injectors and chipped ECU..his setup actually scared me a little i thought i would get taken by a D for once....(the only d that has taken me was a boosted Z6 on 14 PSI and it blew the next day), when i opened my hood he stood there and gauked and got kinda mad at me because he thought i was making fun of his build.....so went to play and i smoked him by a lot in just 1st gear....my long Y1 up to 42 in 1st gear tranny.....that is when i kinda understood why he was mad at me...my entire car with the engine and mods cost less than his build did...poor guy...i have not seen him since..i hope he did not give up and sell his car......
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11-07-2005, 03:57 PM
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Re: (HiProfile)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HiProfile »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">For $1k you can get a mild port job, zc pistons, a zex cam/springs kit, and cheap header to give you enough to eclipse a stock B16.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Like I said, there is no point on spending 1k on a n/a d when you can boost your d for the same price.
Like I said, there is no point on spending 1k on a n/a d when you can boost your d for the same price.
11-07-2005, 04:01 PM
#30
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d vs B has always been a debate
actually it should be
Budget vs Baller
Not saying that you cant be a baller and have a d series, like myself
but the reason i ask all this i because when i first got the motor it was because i was on a budget number one and number two my belts snapped on my 4speed STD...so it was either pay the same amount to fix the the belts plus risk having bent vlaves because i tryed starting before i found out it was the belts or just swap. So i did the lesser.
And now since I spent like 3 months doing the swap myself since I was a beginer and had neverd one it before I wanna see what else I can get out of the motor before I go bigger. And plus its my beater so i might as well drive it 'til it burns.
actually it should be
Budget vs Baller
Not saying that you cant be a baller and have a d series, like myself
but the reason i ask all this i because when i first got the motor it was because i was on a budget number one and number two my belts snapped on my 4speed STD...so it was either pay the same amount to fix the the belts plus risk having bent vlaves because i tryed starting before i found out it was the belts or just swap. So i did the lesser.
And now since I spent like 3 months doing the swap myself since I was a beginer and had neverd one it before I wanna see what else I can get out of the motor before I go bigger. And plus its my beater so i might as well drive it 'til it burns.
11-07-2005, 04:06 PM
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Re: (trooper0641)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by trooper0641 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Like I said, there is no point on spending 1k on a n/a d when you can boost your d for the same price.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Only reason I'm scared of boosting my D is because I dont know chit about Turbo and scared that it will require more maintenance to upkeep the engine
plus i live in Cali
Old people choke because kids like us shoot turbo fumes through the air vents
and smoggin means i have to take out the Turbo every 2 years unless i'm wrong??
I dont have any friends boosting besides our Evo VII
Like I said, there is no point on spending 1k on a n/a d when you can boost your d for the same price.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Only reason I'm scared of boosting my D is because I dont know chit about Turbo and scared that it will require more maintenance to upkeep the engine
plus i live in Cali
Old people choke because kids like us shoot turbo fumes through the air vents
and smoggin means i have to take out the Turbo every 2 years unless i'm wrong??
I dont have any friends boosting besides our Evo VII
11-08-2005, 03:38 AM
#32
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Re: (vega_box)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vega_box »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I guess I should have read the HonData Info sheet too.
It was saying something about a guy with a stock b16A with HonData setup and it only got 5hp and 3.5t
So why does this system cost so much if it only increases by 5hp.?? I can get a intkae and headers and get better results</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yes, you can get an intake and headers and get better results than a Hondata ECU on a stock motor. But people who buy Hondata ECUs generally don't have stock motors. Once you start modding, you will gain MUCH more power with a Hondata ECU. Also, the power to be gained is greater if you are using the wrong ECU for the motor. For instance, if you are using a P75 to run a B20Z vs an LS, you will net a bigger increase on the B20Z.
It was saying something about a guy with a stock b16A with HonData setup and it only got 5hp and 3.5t
So why does this system cost so much if it only increases by 5hp.?? I can get a intkae and headers and get better results</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yes, you can get an intake and headers and get better results than a Hondata ECU on a stock motor. But people who buy Hondata ECUs generally don't have stock motors. Once you start modding, you will gain MUCH more power with a Hondata ECU. Also, the power to be gained is greater if you are using the wrong ECU for the motor. For instance, if you are using a P75 to run a B20Z vs an LS, you will net a bigger increase on the B20Z.
11-08-2005, 09:42 AM
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Re: (StorminMatt)
what is your current d16z6 setup? are you obd1+running a p28 ecu? or do you just have an rpm/window switch to "activate" vtec? i wouldn't swap in a ZC for a gain of just 10hp if that. for the money you would spend you could do a semi decent turbo setup. 
11-08-2005, 11:10 AM
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Re: (nuckingfuts)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nuckingfuts »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what is your current d16z6 setup? are you obd1+running a p28 ecu? or do you just have an rpm/window switch to "activate" vtec? i wouldn't swap in a ZC for a gain of just 10hp if that. for the money you would spend you could do a semi decent turbo setup. </TD></TR></TABLE>
d16z6 running obd-1 with converion harness on p28 ecu
investing in intake and header, possibly some cams, port and polish, and ECU chip
I'm not a nOOb although it may sound like it with my lack of aftermarket parts, I just havent really thought of doing all this until now
</TD></TR></TABLE>d16z6 running obd-1 with converion harness on p28 ecu
investing in intake and header, possibly some cams, port and polish, and ECU chip
I'm not a nOOb although it may sound like it with my lack of aftermarket parts, I just havent really thought of doing all this until now
11-08-2005, 02:15 PM
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Re: (vega_box)
I have 91 CRX Si with a d16z6 motor, stock, with 4 wire O2 sensor, and OBD1 wiring harness. I have a ported and polished stock intake manifold, AEM cold air intake, DC sports 4-1 header, and Greddy SP2 exhaust. I have the AEM cam gears and pulleys, and a lightened flywheel.
I also have the new Hondata s300 running on a p28 ecu. I get 143.9 Wheel HP @ 7750 & 100 ft\lbs @ 7250. That's at least 35 more horsepower than stock to the wheels, right? I think the Hondata has claim to at least 20-25 of that, don't you think?
I also have the new Hondata s300 running on a p28 ecu. I get 143.9 Wheel HP @ 7750 & 100 ft\lbs @ 7250. That's at least 35 more horsepower than stock to the wheels, right? I think the Hondata has claim to at least 20-25 of that, don't you think?
11-08-2005, 03:52 PM
#36
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Re: (Shao Lin Wu Su)
My turn. Here's the car that ALL of these setups have been in and my impressions of each:
91 CRX Si
1st engine:
Original D16A6 with original L3 Si tranny
DC Intake, DC header, DC catback, full cat, 16" wheels w/ 205/40/16 tires
Thoughts:
Fun to drive, peppy, but lacking top end power. Stock driveability =
Good fuel economy
2nd setup:
Same as above, but the header and intake replaced with the EG Greddy Turbo kit.
450cc injectors and chipped PM6 tuned with TurboEdit by me.
Thoughts:
REAL fun to drive, tire spinning goodness, came on strong but seemed to run out of breath up top.
3rd setup:
Replaced the A6 with a Z6, converted to OBD1 and tuned with Crome by me, 205/50/15s, nothing else changed (still same turbo setup).
Thoughts:
Didn't seem to change much. The mad VTAK wasn't really noticeable with the turbo. It just pulled all the way up the RPM range. Fun to drive, but the top end took a while to build up. Wasn't as impressed as I had hoped to be. I thought the Z6 and OBD1 conversion would net me a little more performance than I gained.
4th setup:
Z6 with the original NA stuff back on (all the DC parts) and the 240cc injectors back in. Sold the turbo setup to a guy in Illinois.
Thoughts:
The stock Z6 with bolt ons felt like the A6 did with the m4d VTAK sound at 4500 RPM (notice I said sound and not power). Still not impressed. Now that the turbo was gone, the Z6 really felt underpowered - as it should have. I've since swapped this engine into my $100 beater '89 4 door for daily driven use.
5th setup:
B18A with LONG S1 LS tranny. Stock everything (intake and header) from the donor car. Converted back to OBD0 with a chipped PM6 running tuned PR4 maps. Tire size reduced to 195/50/15s.
Thoughts:
Finally. I finally got my torque I was looking for. It won't throw you out the back of the car, but it was a BIG difference in power. No more waiting for the pull. When you hit the gas, you feel the torque set you back. I don't mess the m4d VTAK sound at all. Car is much faster than with the Z6 with bolt ons.
6th and current setup:
B18A with freshly rebuilt YS1 (93 GSR, shortest geared Honda cable tranny made). DC intake, DC 4-1 header. Same tune as above.
Thoughts:
WOOOOOHOOOOO!!!! There's something great about rolling along in 2nd gear, mashing the throttle, and breaking the tires loose at 20 MPH. The torque of the B18 with the short gears of the YS1 = a lot of fun. I won't ever go back to a D16 anything. The money I spent on a turbo didn't seem to ever justify the tuning, loss of MPG, etc.
Don't get me wrong, they were all fast with the turbo, but at what expense? The daily driver status seemed to be gone with the turbo setup. No AC and a hacked up front end didn't sit well with me. I like my cars clean, simple, and functional. I just didn't feel like I had that running turbo D16s.
Next stop: B20Z.
Hope this helps in your decision. One thing I can tell you, I had MORE in the turbo setup than I did in the entire original B18 swap. I had around $2000 when it was all said and done for the turbo, FMIC, piping, gauges, turbo timer, oil lines, injectors, etc., etc., etc. I got the ENTIRE '91 Integra I sourced the first B18 setup from for $600. Hasport billet mounts and shift linkage for $500. Axles, half shaft, and the ever popular rear bracket FREE with purchase of car
DC header and intake $500. That's it. $1600 for the original setup complete. I got the YS1 for $350, bought carbon coated syncros, bearings, and seals from Gearspeed for $300. Did the tranny rebuild myself. Total with a practically brand new YS1 = $2250. I've also got my AC back.
91 CRX Si
1st engine:
Original D16A6 with original L3 Si tranny
DC Intake, DC header, DC catback, full cat, 16" wheels w/ 205/40/16 tires
Thoughts:
Fun to drive, peppy, but lacking top end power. Stock driveability =
Good fuel economy
2nd setup:
Same as above, but the header and intake replaced with the EG Greddy Turbo kit.
450cc injectors and chipped PM6 tuned with TurboEdit by me.
Thoughts:
REAL fun to drive, tire spinning goodness, came on strong but seemed to run out of breath up top.
3rd setup:
Replaced the A6 with a Z6, converted to OBD1 and tuned with Crome by me, 205/50/15s, nothing else changed (still same turbo setup).
Thoughts:
Didn't seem to change much. The mad VTAK wasn't really noticeable with the turbo. It just pulled all the way up the RPM range. Fun to drive, but the top end took a while to build up. Wasn't as impressed as I had hoped to be. I thought the Z6 and OBD1 conversion would net me a little more performance than I gained.
4th setup:
Z6 with the original NA stuff back on (all the DC parts) and the 240cc injectors back in. Sold the turbo setup to a guy in Illinois.
Thoughts:
The stock Z6 with bolt ons felt like the A6 did with the m4d VTAK sound at 4500 RPM (notice I said sound and not power). Still not impressed. Now that the turbo was gone, the Z6 really felt underpowered - as it should have. I've since swapped this engine into my $100 beater '89 4 door for daily driven use.
5th setup:
B18A with LONG S1 LS tranny. Stock everything (intake and header) from the donor car. Converted back to OBD0 with a chipped PM6 running tuned PR4 maps. Tire size reduced to 195/50/15s.
Thoughts:
Finally. I finally got my torque I was looking for. It won't throw you out the back of the car, but it was a BIG difference in power. No more waiting for the pull. When you hit the gas, you feel the torque set you back. I don't mess the m4d VTAK sound at all. Car is much faster than with the Z6 with bolt ons.
6th and current setup:
B18A with freshly rebuilt YS1 (93 GSR, shortest geared Honda cable tranny made). DC intake, DC 4-1 header. Same tune as above.
Thoughts:
WOOOOOHOOOOO!!!! There's something great about rolling along in 2nd gear, mashing the throttle, and breaking the tires loose at 20 MPH. The torque of the B18 with the short gears of the YS1 = a lot of fun. I won't ever go back to a D16 anything. The money I spent on a turbo didn't seem to ever justify the tuning, loss of MPG, etc.
Don't get me wrong, they were all fast with the turbo, but at what expense? The daily driver status seemed to be gone with the turbo setup. No AC and a hacked up front end didn't sit well with me. I like my cars clean, simple, and functional. I just didn't feel like I had that running turbo D16s.
Next stop: B20Z.
Hope this helps in your decision. One thing I can tell you, I had MORE in the turbo setup than I did in the entire original B18 swap. I had around $2000 when it was all said and done for the turbo, FMIC, piping, gauges, turbo timer, oil lines, injectors, etc., etc., etc. I got the ENTIRE '91 Integra I sourced the first B18 setup from for $600. Hasport billet mounts and shift linkage for $500. Axles, half shaft, and the ever popular rear bracket FREE with purchase of car
DC header and intake $500. That's it. $1600 for the original setup complete. I got the YS1 for $350, bought carbon coated syncros, bearings, and seals from Gearspeed for $300. Did the tranny rebuild myself. Total with a practically brand new YS1 = $2250. I've also got my AC back.
11-08-2005, 04:16 PM
#37
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Re: (Shao Lin Wu Su)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Shao Lin Wu Su »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have 91 CRX Si with a d16z6 motor, stock, with 4 wire O2 sensor, and OBD1 wiring harness. I have a ported and polished stock intake manifold, AEM cold air intake, DC sports 4-1 header, and Greddy SP2 exhaust. I have the AEM cam gears and pulleys, and a lightened flywheel.
I also have the new Hondata s300 running on a p28 ecu. I get 143.9 Wheel HP @ 7750 & 100 ft\lbs @ 7250. That's at least 35 more horsepower than stock to the wheels, right? I think the Hondata has claim to at least 20-25 of that, don't you think?</TD></TR></TABLE>
NOW we are getting somewhere. I was waiting for someone with the setup to step in and give some facts about it
this actually bring my hope back up
did you ever dyno it before you put the HonData setup in?? Also have you tried running it with a differect computer??
I also have the new Hondata s300 running on a p28 ecu. I get 143.9 Wheel HP @ 7750 & 100 ft\lbs @ 7250. That's at least 35 more horsepower than stock to the wheels, right? I think the Hondata has claim to at least 20-25 of that, don't you think?</TD></TR></TABLE>
NOW we are getting somewhere. I was waiting for someone with the setup to step in and give some facts about it
this actually bring my hope back up
did you ever dyno it before you put the HonData setup in?? Also have you tried running it with a differect computer??
11-08-2005, 04:24 PM
#38
Honda-Tech Member
Re: To VTEC or To TORQUE?? (gutterslide)
lol bullshit i got dyno grah to prove the a8 is 140hp theres a dyno gragh comparing the a8 zc to the b16.check it out.
http://www.d-series.org/forums...30616
its on the post from the dude in spain
http://www.d-series.org/forums...30616
its on the post from the dude in spain
11-08-2005, 04:31 PM
#39
No tears. Only dreams, now.
Re: To VTEC or To TORQUE?? (vteckillenzc)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vteckillenzc »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">lol bullshit i got dyno grah to prove the a8 is 140hp theres a dyno gragh comparing the a8 zc to the b16.check it out.
http://www.d-series.org/forums...30616
its on the post from the dude in spain</TD></TR></TABLE>
That's not really even a dyno. It's a chop that the guy did in a lovely photoshop program.
http://www.d-series.org/forums...30616
its on the post from the dude in spain</TD></TR></TABLE>
That's not really even a dyno. It's a chop that the guy did in a lovely photoshop program.
11-08-2005, 06:09 PM
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Re: (vega_box)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vega_box »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
NOW we are getting somewhere. I was waiting for someone with the setup to step in and give some facts about it
this actually bring my hope back up
did you ever dyno it before you put the HonData setup in?? Also have you tried running it with a differect computer??</TD></TR></TABLE>
I never dynoed the car with the virgin p28, but my base run on the dyno was 115 Wheel HP, can't remember the torque number but it was in the low 90's. I never screwed around with a different ECU because I wanted to do it right the first time. However, with the s300 you can use ANY compatible OBD1 ECU, since it becomes fully programable. I am really happy with this new s300 by the way, it is the Zdyne of the OBD1 world.
The numbers suggest b16 killer territory(stock setup), and it feels good. The torque is still coming from a 1.6 liter d series though, although I have been in a b16 rex, and it didn't feel any better. Remember that if you take a 12% driveline loss into account, my numbers are 161 HP and 112 ft\lbs of torque to the crank, slightly higher rating than the stock b16. But I have to rev a little bit higher to get there...daily driving, it feels like a d-series...push it hard, and it is quite fun
I see you are in SD, if you want to have a look at the setup and the s300 software, let me know, we could set up something.
Modified by Shao Lin Wu Su at 7:51 PM 11/8/2005
NOW we are getting somewhere. I was waiting for someone with the setup to step in and give some facts about it
this actually bring my hope back up
did you ever dyno it before you put the HonData setup in?? Also have you tried running it with a differect computer??</TD></TR></TABLE>
I never dynoed the car with the virgin p28, but my base run on the dyno was 115 Wheel HP, can't remember the torque number but it was in the low 90's. I never screwed around with a different ECU because I wanted to do it right the first time. However, with the s300 you can use ANY compatible OBD1 ECU, since it becomes fully programable. I am really happy with this new s300 by the way, it is the Zdyne of the OBD1 world.
The numbers suggest b16 killer territory(stock setup), and it feels good. The torque is still coming from a 1.6 liter d series though, although I have been in a b16 rex, and it didn't feel any better. Remember that if you take a 12% driveline loss into account, my numbers are 161 HP and 112 ft\lbs of torque to the crank, slightly higher rating than the stock b16. But I have to rev a little bit higher to get there...daily driving, it feels like a d-series...push it hard, and it is quite fun
I see you are in SD, if you want to have a look at the setup and the s300 software, let me know, we could set up something.
Modified by Shao Lin Wu Su at 7:51 PM 11/8/2005
11-08-2005, 07:00 PM
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Re: (Shao Lin Wu Su)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Shao Lin Wu Su »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I see you are in SD, if you want to have a look at the setup and the s300 software, let me know, we could set up something.
Modified by Shao Lin Wu Su at 7:51 PM 11/8/2005</TD></TR></TABLE>
Dude hell yeah
You wouldnt happen to be a a black primered CRX that got ur car done at Greenlight by Jerry??
If you free tomorrow or something PM, we can take both our cars down to GreenLight on Ronson RD. (where Panns garage use to be) and I'll see if we can hook up the dyno and do my car and ur car. Mine being basically stock and your with the mods i plan on doing
I see you are in SD, if you want to have a look at the setup and the s300 software, let me know, we could set up something.
Modified by Shao Lin Wu Su at 7:51 PM 11/8/2005</TD></TR></TABLE>
Dude hell yeah
You wouldnt happen to be a a black primered CRX that got ur car done at Greenlight by Jerry??
If you free tomorrow or something PM, we can take both our cars down to GreenLight on Ronson RD. (where Panns garage use to be) and I'll see if we can hook up the dyno and do my car and ur car. Mine being basically stock and your with the mods i plan on doing
11-08-2005, 07:43 PM
#44
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Re: (Shao Lin Wu Su)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Shao Lin Wu Su »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ha! Damn right that's me. PM'd</TD></TR></TABLE>
Wow the infamous CR-X I have been talking so much about
now this post gets interesting
Not calling anyone out who previously posted and said that these numbers couldn't be true...but the proof is here
Lets us debate!!!
Wow the infamous CR-X I have been talking so much about
now this post gets interesting
Not calling anyone out who previously posted and said that these numbers couldn't be true...but the proof is here
Lets us debate!!!
11-08-2005, 08:47 PM
#45
Honda-Tech Member
Re: (Shao Lin Wu Su)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Shao Lin Wu Su »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I never dynoed the car with the virgin p28, but my base run on the dyno was 115 Wheel HP, can't remember the torque number but it was in the low 90's. I never screwed around with a different ECU because I wanted to do it right the first time. However, with the s300 you can use ANY compatible OBD1 ECU, since it becomes fully programable. I am really happy with this new s300 by the way, it is the Zdyne of the OBD1 world.
The numbers suggest b16 killer territory(stock setup), and it feels good. The torque is still coming from a 1.6 liter d series though, although I have been in a b16 rex, and it didn't feel any better. Remember that if you take a 12% driveline loss into account, my numbers are 161 HP and 112 ft\lbs of torque to the crank, slightly higher rating than the stock b16. But I have to rev a little bit higher to get there...daily driving, it feels like a d-series...push it hard, and it is quite fun
I see you are in SD, if you want to have a look at the setup and the s300 software, let me know, we could set up something.
Modified by Shao Lin Wu Su at 7:51 PM 11/8/2005</TD></TR></TABLE>
Here's how I see it. What could you POSSIBLY change in the fuel/timing maps to get 20+HP on such a stock setup? Unless something is REALLY wrong with the stock maps (and this I HIGHLY doubt), you are not going to gain more than a few HP. Now if you did some serious headwork, cams, etc, then 20+HP would not be too inappropriate. But when the engine is so close to stock, I just don't see this happening on anything other than maybe a K-series. And trust me, the Z6 is NO K-series.
I never dynoed the car with the virgin p28, but my base run on the dyno was 115 Wheel HP, can't remember the torque number but it was in the low 90's. I never screwed around with a different ECU because I wanted to do it right the first time. However, with the s300 you can use ANY compatible OBD1 ECU, since it becomes fully programable. I am really happy with this new s300 by the way, it is the Zdyne of the OBD1 world.
The numbers suggest b16 killer territory(stock setup), and it feels good. The torque is still coming from a 1.6 liter d series though, although I have been in a b16 rex, and it didn't feel any better. Remember that if you take a 12% driveline loss into account, my numbers are 161 HP and 112 ft\lbs of torque to the crank, slightly higher rating than the stock b16. But I have to rev a little bit higher to get there...daily driving, it feels like a d-series...push it hard, and it is quite fun
I see you are in SD, if you want to have a look at the setup and the s300 software, let me know, we could set up something.
Modified by Shao Lin Wu Su at 7:51 PM 11/8/2005</TD></TR></TABLE>
Here's how I see it. What could you POSSIBLY change in the fuel/timing maps to get 20+HP on such a stock setup? Unless something is REALLY wrong with the stock maps (and this I HIGHLY doubt), you are not going to gain more than a few HP. Now if you did some serious headwork, cams, etc, then 20+HP would not be too inappropriate. But when the engine is so close to stock, I just don't see this happening on anything other than maybe a K-series. And trust me, the Z6 is NO K-series.
11-08-2005, 11:21 PM
#46
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Re: (vteckillenzc)
I really wouldn't be suprised if those where real numbers though. The D16 has a 90mm stroke, which is definately going to give you more torque than a 77.4mm storke (given that both are ~1600cc). The ZC doesn't have the head to flow past 6.5k like the b16 - that's why its 'less aggressive/smoother' and has the extra hump from 6.5k-8k.
BTW b18apwr - ever thought of what a t25 or small IHI would have done for your previous d16? It'd have instant spoolup, and drop off torque at 5k just like the non-vtec b-series heads do.
BTW b18apwr - ever thought of what a t25 or small IHI would have done for your previous d16? It'd have instant spoolup, and drop off torque at 5k just like the non-vtec b-series heads do.
11-09-2005, 07:19 AM
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Re: (StorminMatt)
Ok, hmmmm....well I know that I also have VTEC engaged at 5400 rpm, I don't know what is was stock, but it was at least 1000 RPM lower, which decreased output dramatically...the smooth VTEC cruve is what really gave me my power on the top. Here is my Dyno:
Hope it works, never tried posting a picture on here before.
- Edit - Crap, anyone know a good free image host?
2nd Edit - Ok found photobucket.com Here's the Dyno:
Hope it works, never tried posting a picture on here before.
- Edit - Crap, anyone know a good free image host?
2nd Edit - Ok found photobucket.com Here's the Dyno:
11-09-2005, 12:42 PM
#50
Honda-Tech Member
What the hell is all this talk about Hondata? Hondata is a waste on near-stock motors, and even if they aren't near stock, you still wouldn't catch me spending that kind of money for something that can be done for free by progs like Uberdata, Crome, TurboEdit, etc. You will not see a gain of more than 5 hp EVER by switching to Hondata on a D-series with boltons.
You can build a turbo d-series for under a thousand dollars, that is your best bet, always is, always will be, if you argue that, you're wrong. If you're looking the most power (under 225 hp or so) for the money, there literally is no alternative.
You can build a turbo d-series for under a thousand dollars, that is your best bet, always is, always will be, if you argue that, you're wrong. If you're looking the most power (under 225 hp or so) for the money, there literally is no alternative.