What's wrong with racing?
05-13-2011, 09:06 AM
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What's wrong with racing?
That's right - Ain't got enough money and/or time to roll like I want. You too I bet. But that's not what I'm talking about.
As I was reading the little in Race Tech and Racecar Engineering that was relevant to me over the last couple of months, and I repeatedly flipped past articles on "The future of racing" and "F1's Green Revolution" and summaries of syposia and entreaties to innovate, eventually they had a cummulative effect on me: What's wrong with you people?
My case for there being something wrong with these people owes something to my developed disinterest in motorsports at any higher level than my own or that of my friends and acquaintances. It wasn't always so. But I've found that the more hoops and flames, the more gimmicks, the more Big Deal, the more I find other things more compellingly interesting.
Racing is very simple in concept. It's a challenge to the skills and character of the participants. It might even make for interesting watching. People like to watch heros do battle. Fewer I would think want to root for teams of anonymous technologists and their increments.
What is this "relevance" that is purchased with a bow to the color green and solemn prayers to technology. Is it the attraction of those who otherwise have no interest in heros of battle in preference to heros of the workstation?
Racing is purely hedonistic. It's no more relevant than overspec'd homo-specimens throwing ***** thru hoops, getting ***** across goal lines, or even into little holes in the grass. And it doesn't have to be green. It ain't green to drive to the stadium or coloseum or wherever you go to do whatever you like. It ain't green to watch it on TV or the internet. You aren't green. You aren't sustainable. Your days are all gone before you know it, and if the thing you enjoy most is minimizing the footprint you leave while you're here - Great, Knock yourself out. But could you just quit screwing up all the good stuff?
Scott, who cannot believe how ridiculous some of the crap I read is..."the possibility that motor racing will be regarded as a pariah sport by society at large"...in the America I live in approximately half of the population is considered pariahs by the other half already...given a choice...and I do have a choice...I'd prefer to be in the half that knows how to have a good time.
As I was reading the little in Race Tech and Racecar Engineering that was relevant to me over the last couple of months, and I repeatedly flipped past articles on "The future of racing" and "F1's Green Revolution" and summaries of syposia and entreaties to innovate, eventually they had a cummulative effect on me: What's wrong with you people?
My case for there being something wrong with these people owes something to my developed disinterest in motorsports at any higher level than my own or that of my friends and acquaintances. It wasn't always so. But I've found that the more hoops and flames, the more gimmicks, the more Big Deal, the more I find other things more compellingly interesting.
Racing is very simple in concept. It's a challenge to the skills and character of the participants. It might even make for interesting watching. People like to watch heros do battle. Fewer I would think want to root for teams of anonymous technologists and their increments.
What is this "relevance" that is purchased with a bow to the color green and solemn prayers to technology. Is it the attraction of those who otherwise have no interest in heros of battle in preference to heros of the workstation?
Racing is purely hedonistic. It's no more relevant than overspec'd homo-specimens throwing ***** thru hoops, getting ***** across goal lines, or even into little holes in the grass. And it doesn't have to be green. It ain't green to drive to the stadium or coloseum or wherever you go to do whatever you like. It ain't green to watch it on TV or the internet. You aren't green. You aren't sustainable. Your days are all gone before you know it, and if the thing you enjoy most is minimizing the footprint you leave while you're here - Great, Knock yourself out. But could you just quit screwing up all the good stuff?
Scott, who cannot believe how ridiculous some of the crap I read is..."the possibility that motor racing will be regarded as a pariah sport by society at large"...in the America I live in approximately half of the population is considered pariahs by the other half already...given a choice...and I do have a choice...I'd prefer to be in the half that knows how to have a good time.
05-13-2011, 10:01 AM
#2
Re: What's wrong with racing?
It's purely a matter of scapegoating.
It is easier for a body of individuals to assume that the most obvious form of pollution / waste (cars, racing) is the worst and should be filtered, or reduced in to something that is, as a whole, less appealing.
What about industry? Trucking? They pollute a little I guess. But, we need those to live, right?
What about racing? Oh, right, we need that (in higher levels) for road car technology / safety development. Variable "geometry" turbos were used in F1 in the 80's. Now it's relatively common place amongst diesels and such. (This was the only example I could think of off hand whilst letting an Evo cool down on the dyno).
Unfortunately, the last paragraph is omitted from the regular individuals copy of the "guide to opinions, volume 2"
EDIT: It should be noted for the record, though, that I am REALLY REALLY excited to see DI in F1. 500 Bar GDI = Sander's love affair.
http://www.formula1.com/news/headlin.../12/11597.html
It is easier for a body of individuals to assume that the most obvious form of pollution / waste (cars, racing) is the worst and should be filtered, or reduced in to something that is, as a whole, less appealing.
What about industry? Trucking? They pollute a little I guess. But, we need those to live, right?
What about racing? Oh, right, we need that (in higher levels) for road car technology / safety development. Variable "geometry" turbos were used in F1 in the 80's. Now it's relatively common place amongst diesels and such. (This was the only example I could think of off hand whilst letting an Evo cool down on the dyno).
Unfortunately, the last paragraph is omitted from the regular individuals copy of the "guide to opinions, volume 2"
EDIT: It should be noted for the record, though, that I am REALLY REALLY excited to see DI in F1. 500 Bar GDI = Sander's love affair.
http://www.formula1.com/news/headlin.../12/11597.html
05-13-2011, 01:13 PM
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Re: What's wrong with racing?
Does racing really push technological development in human mobility faster and further than it would otherwise occur? I'm sure that the desire to save the planet can be believed to be at least equally motivating to that to win a race or a championship. And our best and brightest can certainly be "taught" that saving the planet is fun, whereas destroying it with race cars is retrograde. I've met lots of people who were excited to be on the cutting edge of whatever they were on the cutting edge of almost entirely because they were on the cutting edge of something.
Which brings me to what our best and brightest "ought" to be doing. Saving lives as doctors? Saving the planet as engineers? Providing meaning to our lives as pastors, philosophers, poet/rappers, or video game designers? It stands to reason that if we leave our best and brightest to chart their own path thru life based on the happenstance of interest and fun then society at large loses utility in that distortion. Certainly none of our best and brightest would become involved in motorsports.
So it's no wonder racing is struggling to define it's relevance and stay ahead of the curve (I have no idea what I mean by that but that's what these guys all seem to be talking about) - as a planet, we simply don't have our best people on this. And we're not going to.
Scott, who has put his best person on his own racing program...yes, it is a disaster, but at least I'm relevant to myself...I think...
Which brings me to what our best and brightest "ought" to be doing. Saving lives as doctors? Saving the planet as engineers? Providing meaning to our lives as pastors, philosophers, poet/rappers, or video game designers? It stands to reason that if we leave our best and brightest to chart their own path thru life based on the happenstance of interest and fun then society at large loses utility in that distortion. Certainly none of our best and brightest would become involved in motorsports.
So it's no wonder racing is struggling to define it's relevance and stay ahead of the curve (I have no idea what I mean by that but that's what these guys all seem to be talking about) - as a planet, we simply don't have our best people on this. And we're not going to.
Scott, who has put his best person on his own racing program...yes, it is a disaster, but at least I'm relevant to myself...I think...
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05-13-2011, 02:59 PM
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Re: What's wrong with racing?
I find it hard to believe that, statistically speaking, racing has any significantly measurable effect on the planet especially when contrasted to elements that do.
Thus, banning the act of all things motorsports all together would not have any measurable effect on the goal of lessening our collective "carbon footprint".
What percentage of our population actually actively participates in motorsports? I think its safe to assume not many when most of the people I have met in my life (outside of motorsports) have little to no knowledge of racing outside of mainstream events such as Nascar, etc.
To me its a bunch of closed minded new age hippies grasping at straws, or scapegoating as Sander already stated. We can't engineer any innovative solutions so lets focus the attention over there on the gearhead racer guys that are hellbent on destroying the planet!
Thus, banning the act of all things motorsports all together would not have any measurable effect on the goal of lessening our collective "carbon footprint".
What percentage of our population actually actively participates in motorsports? I think its safe to assume not many when most of the people I have met in my life (outside of motorsports) have little to no knowledge of racing outside of mainstream events such as Nascar, etc.
To me its a bunch of closed minded new age hippies grasping at straws, or scapegoating as Sander already stated. We can't engineer any innovative solutions so lets focus the attention over there on the gearhead racer guys that are hellbent on destroying the planet!
05-13-2011, 03:19 PM
#9
Re: What's wrong with racing?
I find it hard to believe that, statistically speaking, racing has any significantly measurable effect on the planet especially when contrasted to elements that do.
Thus, banning the act of all things motorsports all together would not have any measurable effect on the goal of lessening our collective "carbon footprint".
What percentage of our population actually actively participates in motorsports? I think its safe to assume not many when most of the people I have met in my life (outside of motorsports) have little to no knowledge of racing outside of mainstream events such as Nascar, etc.
To me its a bunch of closed minded new age hippies grasping at straws, or scapegoating as Sander already stated. We can't engineer any innovative solutions so lets focus the attention over there on the gearhead racer guys that are hellbent on destroying the planet!
Thus, banning the act of all things motorsports all together would not have any measurable effect on the goal of lessening our collective "carbon footprint".
What percentage of our population actually actively participates in motorsports? I think its safe to assume not many when most of the people I have met in my life (outside of motorsports) have little to no knowledge of racing outside of mainstream events such as Nascar, etc.
To me its a bunch of closed minded new age hippies grasping at straws, or scapegoating as Sander already stated. We can't engineer any innovative solutions so lets focus the attention over there on the gearhead racer guys that are hellbent on destroying the planet!
05-13-2011, 05:09 PM
#11
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Re: What's wrong with racing?
it seriously makes me angry and sad to think about racing with out internal combustion engines. i'll go back to a d15. i'll race a diesel. but electric cars i can't get involved in. i don't even like electric karts!
05-14-2011, 05:33 AM
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Re: What's wrong with racing?
Nissan Leaf spec racing. I can see it now. Kind of like playing an old slow video game with the sound turned off. A few years back they tried to revive Honda Civic spec racing in Canada, with Michelin Sport Cup tires and Dynamic suspensions dampers and a few other part, including stock mufflers. The lack of sound just made it the most boring races to spectate at the track among a weekend full of noisy fuel gulpers. Series ran two years and was dropped for lack of support. Racing's got to make you vibrate.
I read those mags too, and have seen them trying hard to make themselves relevant in a green world. Driven first by Bernie's F1. There's just nothing like F1 racing live to make you vibrate. I've seen every kind of racing live except NASCAR I think, and there is nothing that compares to the trackside sound and fury of a half-dozen F1 cars rushing at insane speed into a 90 degree corner and through at over 4 g's and powering out the other side. Really, nothing remotely comes close. 2010 F1 audience is over 500 million viewers in 187 countries. And for NASCAR at Daytona in 2011 "Nielsen measured the television audience for Bayne's victory at 30.1 million – the highest-rated NASCAR race since 2008.", so not even remotely close. So Bernie leads the way in the push for racing green, and if green means more green, Bernie is in the game. He really cares what those 500 million viewers want, both in terms of the show and the technology. Whether it is relevant or not doesn't matter, it's all about marketing the global brands. So they added the drag reduction system, DRS, which is working this year for passing, and they revived KERS. Porsche made a big leap and put the F1 Williams rotating flywheel based kinetic energy recovery system into their GT3 Cup car and it is doing very well. Now they are making the 918 hybrid, their fastest most expensive car ever, in both street and racing versions. Bosch/Audi developed direct injection and clean racing diesels and cleaned everybody's clock at LeMans, and Peugeot followed suit. Technological marvels both, awesome viewed close up in the flesh. Race cars developed the monocoque chassis way back with the Lotus 23, and virtually every car on the planet is now a monocoque. Racing Green series from BBC showed the saga of those engineering boys from England who transformed a Radical SR8 into a full electric car and ran from Alaska to the tip of South America. Very nice package, and it looked good on track too. Oil is in high demand, and price keeps up with demand. More and more cars on the planet as Asian and other countries increase their wealth, adding to oil demand. China is buying a lot of Buicks, and Tata motors makes some incredibly affordable cars. Those millions all need gas. So green in terms of reducing fuel consumption is an un-stoppable freight train. F1 showed the way in terms of weight reduction with carbon fiber, and now virtually every high end race car is made of carbon, unless banned by the rules. And if they can't make the chassis out of CF, they will add as many bits of it as they can. I like my CF hood. Carbon is slowly finding itself into high end road cars, and new technologies may move that into the more mainstream stuff. Gordon Murray has a few ideas on that, as have others. Racing driving the trend toward light weight in road cars. You have to go to Rome to see what they are driving there, no SUV's or pick-up trucks, with about 25% of the cars being Smart cars, and tones even smaller, and then there's the scooters! One needs a world view on these things, not just a NA centric view.
Likely this whole forum exists due to Honda racing in F1 with their engines back in the 80's. VTEC yo! And the moves racing made with fuel injection and ECU use that replaced the carburettor in everything except oval racing, and even NASCAR could resist no more. And how about the racing development in terms of aero, with all the wind tunnel work and development. That has certainly trickled down to regular cars in terms of lowered drag for cars like the Honda Insight and others. Tire technology has improved tremendously as has lubricant technology, with F1 leading the way in terms of friction reduction as the most important aspect of modern oil design for guys like Mobil and Shell.
Now making green racing exceiting to watch is the challenge, which is going to need some good ideas.
I read those mags too, and have seen them trying hard to make themselves relevant in a green world. Driven first by Bernie's F1. There's just nothing like F1 racing live to make you vibrate. I've seen every kind of racing live except NASCAR I think, and there is nothing that compares to the trackside sound and fury of a half-dozen F1 cars rushing at insane speed into a 90 degree corner and through at over 4 g's and powering out the other side. Really, nothing remotely comes close. 2010 F1 audience is over 500 million viewers in 187 countries. And for NASCAR at Daytona in 2011 "Nielsen measured the television audience for Bayne's victory at 30.1 million – the highest-rated NASCAR race since 2008.", so not even remotely close. So Bernie leads the way in the push for racing green, and if green means more green, Bernie is in the game. He really cares what those 500 million viewers want, both in terms of the show and the technology. Whether it is relevant or not doesn't matter, it's all about marketing the global brands. So they added the drag reduction system, DRS, which is working this year for passing, and they revived KERS. Porsche made a big leap and put the F1 Williams rotating flywheel based kinetic energy recovery system into their GT3 Cup car and it is doing very well. Now they are making the 918 hybrid, their fastest most expensive car ever, in both street and racing versions. Bosch/Audi developed direct injection and clean racing diesels and cleaned everybody's clock at LeMans, and Peugeot followed suit. Technological marvels both, awesome viewed close up in the flesh. Race cars developed the monocoque chassis way back with the Lotus 23, and virtually every car on the planet is now a monocoque. Racing Green series from BBC showed the saga of those engineering boys from England who transformed a Radical SR8 into a full electric car and ran from Alaska to the tip of South America. Very nice package, and it looked good on track too. Oil is in high demand, and price keeps up with demand. More and more cars on the planet as Asian and other countries increase their wealth, adding to oil demand. China is buying a lot of Buicks, and Tata motors makes some incredibly affordable cars. Those millions all need gas. So green in terms of reducing fuel consumption is an un-stoppable freight train. F1 showed the way in terms of weight reduction with carbon fiber, and now virtually every high end race car is made of carbon, unless banned by the rules. And if they can't make the chassis out of CF, they will add as many bits of it as they can. I like my CF hood. Carbon is slowly finding itself into high end road cars, and new technologies may move that into the more mainstream stuff. Gordon Murray has a few ideas on that, as have others. Racing driving the trend toward light weight in road cars. You have to go to Rome to see what they are driving there, no SUV's or pick-up trucks, with about 25% of the cars being Smart cars, and tones even smaller, and then there's the scooters! One needs a world view on these things, not just a NA centric view.
Likely this whole forum exists due to Honda racing in F1 with their engines back in the 80's. VTEC yo! And the moves racing made with fuel injection and ECU use that replaced the carburettor in everything except oval racing, and even NASCAR could resist no more. And how about the racing development in terms of aero, with all the wind tunnel work and development. That has certainly trickled down to regular cars in terms of lowered drag for cars like the Honda Insight and others. Tire technology has improved tremendously as has lubricant technology, with F1 leading the way in terms of friction reduction as the most important aspect of modern oil design for guys like Mobil and Shell.
Now making green racing exceiting to watch is the challenge, which is going to need some good ideas.
05-14-2011, 07:03 AM
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Re: What's wrong with racing?
It's called "tall poppy" syndrome.
F1 is the tallest poppy, so the pollitically correct start hacking away with enviroterrorist mantra at that height first.
F1 is the tallest poppy, so the pollitically correct start hacking away with enviroterrorist mantra at that height first.
05-14-2011, 08:52 AM
#16
Re: What's wrong with racing?
I find it hard to believe that, statistically speaking, racing has any significantly measurable effect on the planet especially when contrasted to elements that do.
Thus, banning the act of all things motorsports all together would not have any measurable effect on the goal of lessening our collective "carbon footprint".
Thus, banning the act of all things motorsports all together would not have any measurable effect on the goal of lessening our collective "carbon footprint".
05-15-2011, 01:30 AM
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Re: What's wrong with racing?
How about this green racing car: Nissan Leaf Nismo RC
"NISSAN LEAF™ NISMO RC (RACING COMPETITION) TAKES ZERO EMISSION STRATEGY TO A NEW DIMENSION – THE RACE TRACK
– Purpose-Built Prototype Wraps Production Nissan LEAF Components and Technology in a Dramatic Ready-To-Go-Racing Carbon Fiber Body –
The name on the back panel, just under the massive adjustable rear wing, says Nissan LEAF™. The powertrain is an 100% zero emission advanced Lithium-ion battery design, just like that found on the world’s first affordable mass market electric vehicle. And despite its lack of rear doors, rear seat, trunk, audio system, navigation, carpeting and other amenities, there is a discernable family resemblance. But that is where the similarities between the production Nissan LEAF and the Nissan LEAF NISMO RC end. As indicted by the “RC” – for Racing Competition – this new electric vehicle, which makes its world debut at the 2011 New York International Auto Show on April 20th, is purpose-built to bring new meaning to the term “Racing Green.”
Already a world leader in zero emission production vehicles with the late 2010 launch of the Nissan LEAF passenger vehicle in the United States, Europe and Japan, Nissan is now looking at the racing world as a way to draw attention to the seemingly untapped potential of electric vehicles.
“Combining the talents of NISMO, Nissan’s world renowned motorsports group, and engineers behind some of the company’s Super GT and FIA GT1 race teams, the Nissan LEAF NISMO RC will serve as a rolling laboratory for the accelerated development of EV and aerodynamic systems, as well as a platform for the development of new green motorsports series,” said Carlos Tavares, chairman, Nissan Americas, speaking at the New York International Auto Show."
and the performance: blow your socks right off!
"In preliminary testing the NISMO RC produces 0 to 62 mph acceleration in 6.85 seconds and a top speed of 93 miles per hour. It is projected to have a running time of around 20 minutes under racing conditions."
"NISSAN LEAF™ NISMO RC (RACING COMPETITION) TAKES ZERO EMISSION STRATEGY TO A NEW DIMENSION – THE RACE TRACK
– Purpose-Built Prototype Wraps Production Nissan LEAF Components and Technology in a Dramatic Ready-To-Go-Racing Carbon Fiber Body –
The name on the back panel, just under the massive adjustable rear wing, says Nissan LEAF™. The powertrain is an 100% zero emission advanced Lithium-ion battery design, just like that found on the world’s first affordable mass market electric vehicle. And despite its lack of rear doors, rear seat, trunk, audio system, navigation, carpeting and other amenities, there is a discernable family resemblance. But that is where the similarities between the production Nissan LEAF and the Nissan LEAF NISMO RC end. As indicted by the “RC” – for Racing Competition – this new electric vehicle, which makes its world debut at the 2011 New York International Auto Show on April 20th, is purpose-built to bring new meaning to the term “Racing Green.”
Already a world leader in zero emission production vehicles with the late 2010 launch of the Nissan LEAF passenger vehicle in the United States, Europe and Japan, Nissan is now looking at the racing world as a way to draw attention to the seemingly untapped potential of electric vehicles.
“Combining the talents of NISMO, Nissan’s world renowned motorsports group, and engineers behind some of the company’s Super GT and FIA GT1 race teams, the Nissan LEAF NISMO RC will serve as a rolling laboratory for the accelerated development of EV and aerodynamic systems, as well as a platform for the development of new green motorsports series,” said Carlos Tavares, chairman, Nissan Americas, speaking at the New York International Auto Show."
and the performance: blow your socks right off!
"In preliminary testing the NISMO RC produces 0 to 62 mph acceleration in 6.85 seconds and a top speed of 93 miles per hour. It is projected to have a running time of around 20 minutes under racing conditions."
05-15-2011, 05:43 PM
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Re: What's wrong with racing?
I recently moved to Michigan to pursue a new motorsports job after being to a few races and tests I had a pretty good handle on the fuel consumption. During an "off" weekend I found myself in ann arbor grabbing some good with a lady friend when I got out of my economical car ( 99 Integra GSR ) I was immediately greeted by some new age hippie douche.
He asked me this " Would you like to learn how to save the environment "
I immediately snapped back with " The racecars I run for a living get 2.5 MPG do you think i give a **** "
The look on his face made me smile.
He asked me this " Would you like to learn how to save the environment "
I immediately snapped back with " The racecars I run for a living get 2.5 MPG do you think i give a **** "
The look on his face made me smile.
05-15-2011, 06:51 PM
#19
Re: What's wrong with racing?
I recently moved to Michigan to pursue a new motorsports job after being to a few races and tests I had a pretty good handle on the fuel consumption. During an "off" weekend I found myself in ann arbor grabbing some good with a lady friend when I got out of my economical car ( 99 Integra GSR ) I was immediately greeted by some new age hippie douche.
He asked me this " Would you like to learn how to save the environment "
I immediately snapped back with " The racecars I run for a living get 2.5 MPG do you think i give a **** "
The look on his face made me smile.
He asked me this " Would you like to learn how to save the environment "
I immediately snapped back with " The racecars I run for a living get 2.5 MPG do you think i give a **** "
The look on his face made me smile.
05-15-2011, 09:09 PM
#21
Re: What's wrong with racing?
I hear ya, then you have the vegans who want to tell you how to live a better life eating nothing but veggies and tofu. Have you ever had tofu?
The closest thing i can say it tastes like is.. well i cant say it tastes like but it has the consistency of a sponge with no flavor.
My arguement is im saving the earth from green house gases that the cows are giving off when they ****.
Save the planet eat a cow.
Nothing wrong with eating veggies.
Just dont tell me im cold and cruel for eating an animal.
Being carnivorus has been going on since the dawn of man, and who am I to start a new trend when I clearly enjoy a good steak.
All this tree huggery makes me sick.
The closest thing i can say it tastes like is.. well i cant say it tastes like but it has the consistency of a sponge with no flavor.
My arguement is im saving the earth from green house gases that the cows are giving off when they ****.
Save the planet eat a cow.
Nothing wrong with eating veggies.
Just dont tell me im cold and cruel for eating an animal.
Being carnivorus has been going on since the dawn of man, and who am I to start a new trend when I clearly enjoy a good steak.
All this tree huggery makes me sick.
05-15-2011, 11:54 PM
#22
Re: What's wrong with racing?
I hear ya, then you have the vegans who want to tell you how to live a better life eating nothing but veggies and tofu. Have you ever had tofu?
The closest thing i can say it tastes like is.. well i cant say it tastes like but it has the consistency of a sponge with no flavor.
My arguement is im saving the earth from green house gases that the cows are giving off when they ****.
Save the planet eat a cow.
Nothing wrong with eating veggies.
Just dont tell me im cold and cruel for eating an animal.
Being carnivorus has been going on since the dawn of man, and who am I to start a new trend when I clearly enjoy a good steak.
All this tree huggery makes me sick.
The closest thing i can say it tastes like is.. well i cant say it tastes like but it has the consistency of a sponge with no flavor.
My arguement is im saving the earth from green house gases that the cows are giving off when they ****.
Save the planet eat a cow.
Nothing wrong with eating veggies.
Just dont tell me im cold and cruel for eating an animal.
Being carnivorus has been going on since the dawn of man, and who am I to start a new trend when I clearly enjoy a good steak.
All this tree huggery makes me sick.
It's not just about eating the animal that is cruel....it's what happens before they are sent to slaughter and how they are raised.
If you think being Vegan is all about eating Veggies and tofu this is a good movie to watch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ce4DJh-L7Ys
You don't have to eat tofu to know this isn't right
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTKBTkzpCqw
Canada and USA are the cesspool of using farm animals as entertainment
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5GyS75aGmY
Honda guys complaining about going green huh.
Last edited by 89civicdx; 05-16-2011 at 12:36 AM.
05-16-2011, 12:10 AM
#23
05-16-2011, 12:17 AM
#24
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Re: What's wrong with racing?
Or removing the ********* with a pocket knife.
You should see what happens to these cows when they're free on a day to day basis.
05-16-2011, 12:23 AM
#25
Re: What's wrong with racing?
C'mon there is no real ranch where they will purposely try to injure their stock. You have tons of calves running around with broken legs?There are no ranches where there are high speed jerk downs.
But you are from Texas so we know they don't like to use guns there, make an excuse for this because there is no possible reasonable explanation why this has to be done this way.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ki57eFs7XFo