PseudoRealityX

why do we think this is new?

Heck, Dale and Dale Jr. ran in '00 in the Vettes...did "pretty well" too.

Oh, and PS, about the wheels falling off...

http://plaza.ufl.edu/protege/118_1885.JPG

Posted this in the other rolex thread, but figured some might not have seen it.

sjasmund

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by phat-S &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Man, if you were in the paddock during the rush, this is one very small world Scott</TD></TR></TABLE>

No, while all the thrashing was going on I was still in the pits watching our hole get a little deeper very 2 minutes.

We probably walked past each other a hundred times over the weekend though. I walked through the GAC paddock a bunch of times on my way to/from the Porsche truck.

Track rat

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by phat-S &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yes, I too was very bummed for them on the end result. They (the #2 and #9 cars) were a ton of fun to watch (had a kick *** spot to watch from thanks to the IsaacDirect boys) coming out of Intl. Horseshoe. I thought the Nascar guys did a tremendous job and I can't wait to see more of them running these races and the spectators they bring with them.

BTW, I think after this weekend, GM definately has a real good eye on the prize as far as motorsports goes. A Speed GT Caddy, a GAC Caddy (due out later), the Pontiac and Chevy Daytona Prototypes, the introduction of RWD sports coupes for the street market, streamlining their entry in Nascar and so on ... this is a US car manufacturer IMO worth rooting for on all levels of motorsport. And that #10 Pontiac looked like it could just walk the bleep away from the field before they had problems - that seemed to me to be the car to beat. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Hey "S", are you still wringing wet!!

solo-x

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Catch 22 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Scott, who wonders how much Joe Bob would like it if Dale Jr. and I hung out at his job site and cheered like idiots when the lift broke and dropped a car on his ***.</TD></TR></TABLE>

*points*
[nelson voice]haha![/nelson voice]

the nascar ads i still see on tv show wrecks, crashes, more wrecks, and a few flips and fireballs. seems like nascar is still marketing the wrecks over the racing. is perception changing? every monday at the water cooler, "did you see the wreck at (name a track) between (name some drivers)??!!?" i have yet to hear, "did you see (name your driver) set up the pass on (name another driver)??!!?"

nate

urbanlegend21

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Catch 22 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

NASCAR fans may not like being called ignorant rednecks and such by fans of other motorsports, but they damned sure seem to have the market cornered for acting like ******** when their drivers smash into something. Want to stop being called ignorant? OK, stop acting ignorant.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Ahhh, I see, the group that enjoys other forms of motorsports are such a higher class of people they can look down on those who enjoy NASCAR?

I think there are a bigger group of ******** in amatuer racing because everyone seems to complain and point fingers when things do not go their way? Whats the difference.

I think there is a bigger reason why a certain group of people, mainly amatuer racers or import enthusiasts hate NASCAR. Can't seem to explain it clearly but there is one.

urbanlegend21

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by solo-x &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

the nascar ads i still see on tv show wrecks, crashes, more wrecks, and a few flips and fireballs. seems like nascar is still marketing the wrecks over the racing. is perception changing? every monday at the water cooler, "did you see the wreck at (name a track) between (name some drivers)??!!?" i have yet to hear, "did you see (name your driver) set up the pass on (name another driver)??!!?"

nate</TD></TR></TABLE>

How many of the millions watching know how to explain passing to a co-worker? How many times in a race does a person get passed? What kind of conversation starts with "Hey did you see Dale Jr setup Kevin Harvick for that pass halfway through the race?"


I think all of you assume that these people have the knowledge of a lot of the aspects of racing that we do. Or that they care to. Then you judge them and call them stupid because they do not get it. Maybe they do not want to. Maybe they do not want to feel left out at Cart race, or a Honda-Challenge race, because they do nto get what is going on?

phat-S

Scott, we probably did. I wish I had thought to shoot you an email before I left. Will do so next time as I am going to try go to at least some relatively nearby GAC races if I can - not sure if you have any customers in that series but if so ...

Actually Allan I fortunately got to stay rather dry. The IsaacDirect guys set it up for their head restraint users (sent out a mailer if we wanted to go) to go and I got an International Pavillion ticket so we'd go out and watch from the grandstand outside the (heated ) tent, duck back in for coffee/hot meal/big screen tvs/lap stats, back out, back in for a beer - it was a really cool way to go. I am probably a bit spoiled now but it really made for an excellent experience and real damned cool on their part.

Catch 22

I'm not following your logic Morgan.

Are you saying that most of the NASCAR fans either don't understand things like setting up passes or don't find it interesting enough to care about, so its OK for them to cheer when a human being smacks a concrete barrier at 180mph?

Sorry man. I can't agree with that being OK.

PS - As far as fireball ad campaigns are concerned, it just validates my point. Giving the people what they want is how you make money. NASCAR is giving the people what they want, which is carnage. If it kills a few drivers here and there... bah. Its a small price to pay (unless of course that driver is a Dale Sr., then they actually cringe a bit before they go right back to the flipping, burning, crashing ad campaigns).

solo-x

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by urbanlegend21 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

How many of the millions watching know how to explain passing to a co-worker? How many times in a race does a person get passed? What kind of conversation starts with "Hey did you see Dale Jr setup Kevin Harvick for that pass halfway through the race?"


I think all of you assume that these people have the knowledge of a lot of the aspects of racing that we do. Or that they care to. Then you judge them and call them stupid because they do not get it. Maybe they do not want to. Maybe they do not want to feel left out at Cart race, or a Honda-Challenge race, because they do nto get what is going on?</TD></TR></TABLE>

hey, i never called anyone stupid. maybe it could be infered, but that was not my intent. there are stupid people everywhere, to categorize them all as nascar fans is unfair for Rhode Island people.

you're right that i assume everyone that is into racing understands it the way i do. it's only human.

nate

urbanlegend21

No, I am saying that unlike Cart, Indy, F1, where to fully understand and enjoy the racing you must get setting up passing and the logistics, NASCAR allows you to enjoy it wether you "get" racing or not.

Essentially what I am saying is that qualifying that NASCAR fans enjoy racing because of the wrecks is some sort of cop-out, bandwagon exscuse for people that do not have a good reason for not liking NASCAR beyond not connecting with the fan base. Saying that people who enjoy it and go to the races are ignorant rednecks is about the most assinine comment I have heard in a while. The fact that comments about NASCAR in this forum always make it seem as an inferior sport and fan base is ridiculous.

It also seems to me Speed Channel, Cart, F1 all show wrecks in their commercials too. Am I wrong?

As far as cheering for wrecks well, I guess you need to qualify any hockey and football fan as ignorant also because they cheer when their team puts a massive hit on another player. Cheering is a part of any sport. You put 150,000 people in a race arena where each and everyone one of them has a driver they love and one they hate you are godamned right they are going to cheer. To think they are cheering at the thought of someone being injured is crazy.

phat-S

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by urbanlegend21 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It also seems to me Speed Channel, Cart, F1 all show wrecks in their commercials too. Am I wrong? </TD></TR></TABLE>

No, you are absolutely correct as far as I am concerned. It is no different and to only point at Nascar and say its catering to the LCD is a crock. Just like saying only Nascar accepts/promotes tobacco and alcohol money - they all do and in my opinion, people talk about wrecks/spins/offs at the water cooler if its F1 or Nascar or Cart or the Runoffs.

Until the marketing wheels of road racing begin to turn with the efficiency and ease of those in Nascar, it will be what is the most watched and enjoyed by the masses. And if at some distant point, road racing takes on this same mass appeal, there will be a large group of people that don't like that either. Hell, I liked REM until they got popular

a2snakes

Amature Racing, it's not how good you are. It's how good you think you are.

Hracer

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by phat-S &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Until the marketing wheels of road racing begin to turn with the efficiency and ease of those in Nascar, it will be what is the most watched and enjoyed by the masses.</TD></TR></TABLE>

IMO, in this case the efficiency of the wheels doesn't have that much to do with how fast they are spinning. It's the fact that the marketing wheels of road racing are forced to tread through mayonnaise, while the Nascar marketing wheels spin as easily as through thin air since there is such a larger audience out there in which to be effective in. But where does it start? Can the right kind of marketing create a larger audience? But then where will the money for the marketing campaign come from if no body is interested in the first place?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">And if at some distant point, road racing takes on this same mass appeal, there will be a large group of people that don't like that either. Hell, I liked REM until they got popular </TD></TR></TABLE>

Another point of view is to note that *road racing* in itself, imo, is not what limits the mass appeal. If it were, it wouldn't be nearly as popular as it is in the rest of the world. It has to be a combination of other factors, one of which I believe that road racing in this country is just too secret. IMO, a large base of the nascar fans out there "choose" nascar simply because they are not aware, or know enough about to understand anything else. Nascar's target is the general public and offers them "racing". By doing this, the general public's view of "racing" has already been established as Nascar-oval racing. On the other hand in this country, road racing's target audience is much smaller, and as I see it, it's already reduced to the motorposrts/car fan in the first place, and then goes to offer them "road racing", as another choice. This is the fundamental problem faced by road racing in the US - Nascar's monopoly of the definition of what the word "racing" means for the general public. But how do you overcome this by anything other than a whole lot of marketing $$$? And if so, then where does this money come from if nobody is paying attention in the first place?

Ah.. if only our Nascar would be something like the Australian V8s. At least I would be all over it! Can we trade with them?

Nate

I think this quote does a fine job of explaining NASCAR fans,

Bottom line...a culture that can't grasp "slower traffic keep right" is not fertile ground for the growth of sophisticated forms of motor racing. If you live here and you "get" it, savor your place among the enlightened few, but don't expect the guys around the water cooler to share your appreciation of the German Touring Car series.

-Dave Despain

Knestis

Let's not neglect the nature of the American consumer, either. They are generally more sedentary, more overweight, and less tolerant of inconvenience. Rallying is enormously popular in other countries but the spectators park and walk miles into the stages, lugging food, drinks, and Petter Solberg banners. It's very difficult for me to imagine many race fans in the US willing to do that. Road racing is arguably better but simply making racing circuit venues more spectator-friendly would be a helpful move, if true popularity is the goal.

That said, how many people on this board don't like NASCAR essentially because it IS popular? Or at least for the REASONS it is popular?

K

phat-S

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hracer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
But then where will the money for the marketing campaign come from if no body is interested in the first place?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

That's my belief. That there isn't sufficient interest to warrant spending the money to campaign it. Its good for showing a Ford GT commercial, tail out twisting through the countrysi ... oh, I mean road course. But that doesn't translate to racing for most, its just a cool car on a test track and in fine print "do not attempt this, professional driver on closed course."

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hracer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
But how do you overcome this by anything other than a whole lot of marketing $$$? And if so, then where does this money come from if nobody is paying attention in the first place?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I think that the WNBA and MLS have somewhat proven that you can have a very competetive sport, very talented competitors, a "game" that works in other markets but still not "sell" it to the American public despite the money you put into it. I don't know the marketing numbers but my understanding is that these were both very heavily invested and have made very little ground in a new viewing audience. I could be wrong but did Hockey ever have as big a Southern audience as it does today? Is that purely money or have there been enough opportunities at enough different venues that people or people they know have gotten a chance to check out a game and get into it? Perhaps the answer is not to throw money into it as much as just open the doors as wide as you can and try to get everyone in to watch. Hell, maybe give away some wheel spacers and key chains (ok, that takes money)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Knestis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">That said, how many people on this board don't like NASCAR essentially because it IS popular? Or at least for the REASONS it is popular?

K</TD></TR></TABLE>

If this is in regard to my REM comment, that's pretty much what I was getting at. If it wasn't, ironic you mention it. Were people that torqued with Nascar when David Hobbs was a comentator and the drivers, however well known within the sport, were only casually recognized - at best - by the average grocery store shopper? Did anyone care? If you know of something - a competing interest if you will - that doesn't get the recognition you feel it so well deserves in lieu of something you view as much more pedestrian then yes, it probably will get on your nerves. Not the drivers, not the series, but all those that continue fueling the machine. Nascar, whether you like the sport or not, has its fans as the machine behind it. No amount of money, ads, McDonalds happy meals can make a series as popular as Nascar without having the fans to push it along. And because no other form of motorsport has this drive behind it in the US, why would anyone view it as a viable trade-off to promote any other form of motorsport with the same push. And you know what? If they did, a ton of people here would freaking hate what it became. I think if we're lucky, the Nascar guys will continue to take part in road racing and bring at least sufficient attention to the point of "You mean like Nascar? ... oh, you mean like Daytona Prototypes?" - hell, that'd be grand

Hracer

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Knestis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">That said, how many people on this board don't like NASCAR essentially because it IS popular? Or at least for the REASONS it is popular?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I have nothing against nascar, its drivers, or its fan base (except for such incidents of ignorance as bad-monkey quoted earlier), but a Nascar race at the Glen is safer for the drivers than at Talladega. I also don't find oval racing interesting for anything more than a few laps - it's just too redundant. I don’t buy “close racing” to mean 3 cars going side by side at wot for a whole lap. I'm also of the opinion that a race taking place on an oval (especially on superspeedways) puts more emphasis on equipment than on the driver, as opposed to a the same race done on a road course. And:

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by phat-S &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you know of something - a competing interest if you will - that doesn't get the recognition you feel it so well deserves in lieu of something you view as much more pedestrian then yes, it probably will get on your nerves. Not the drivers, not the series, but all those that continue fueling the machine. Nascar, whether you like the sport or not, has its fans as the machine behind it. No amount of money, ads, McDonalds happy meals can make a series as popular as Nascar without having the fans to push it along. And because no other form of motorsport has this drive behind it in the US, why would anyone view it as a viable trade-off to promote any other form of motorsport with the same push. And you know what? If they did, a ton of people here would freaking hate what it became. I think if we're lucky, the Nascar guys will continue to take part in road racing and bring at least sufficient attention to the point of "You mean like Nascar? ... oh, you mean like Daytona Prototypes?" - hell, that'd be grand </TD></TR></TABLE>

Very well said!

Catch 22

My only point is that mass cheering for a wreck is really, really ignorant and shitty. Speed may show it on their commercials and WRC, Aussie V8, and others may show it in their promos, but their fans aren't KNOWN for rowdy cheering when a driver crashes. NASCAR pretty much has that market cornered.

BTW - You guys do realize that the stands just plain erupted in cheers when Dale Sr. hit that wall at Daytona a couple of years back. Right? Ya'll remember that?
Dead man in the car and 100,000 people cheering their asses off. That sucks *** in my opinion and I was damned impressed that Tony Stewart has publicly spoken out about this type of behavior in the NASCAR stands as well.

And you can't compare this to Football or Hockey.
Why?
Because in Football or Hockey the players are SUPPOSED to hit each other.
Last time I checked, wrecking isn't SUPPOSED to be the way you race. Its part of it, sure, but nowhere in the rulebook does it state that one player is supposed to stop anothers progress by physical contact. Or does the NASCAR rulebook say something I'm not aware of???

Catch 22

"You mean like Nascar? ... oh, you mean like Daytona Prototypes?"

That'd be awesome.
I've just started telling people "Yes, I race at Lowes."

Outrun

Some NASCAR drivers have their roots in other forms of motorsport...karting, road racing, etc. If they want to do it, more power to them. I think it shows how good they are. Contemporary motorsport doesn't have enough of the "drive anything" race car driver like the old days where the good drives could win in anything. (Mario Andretti, Dan Gurney, AJ Foyt, etc).

urbanlegend21

100,00 people stood up and cheered because Dale Sr. wrecked trying to keep his 2 teamates in the lead. People were cheering before he hit the wall. Notice the crowd became very silent when the car came to rest?

And to quote Tony Stewart is ******* ridiculous anyway. I think he is a hell of a driver but opens his mouth to blame others when ever he has a problem.


If you do not like NASCAR that is fine. But do not vent on its fan base making them sound ignorant and below yourself. People cheer at intensity and violence. It is a practice that has happened through the evolution of man. Wether it is a linbacker creaming a quaterback, hockey player checking someone through the glass on the boards, or 2 competitive cars getting tangled up and spinning into the wall makes litttle difference to the average American. It is a high intensity entertainment device.

You think if Tigger Woods could knock the **** out of Phil Mickleson in the middle of the fairway and not be penalized mroe people would watch golf? You are godamned right they would.

maxQ

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by urbanlegend21 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You think if Tigger Woods could knock the **** out of Phil Mickleson in the middle of the fairway and not be penalized mroe people would watch golf? You are godamned right they would.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Nah, Phil needs no help in that arena.

Catch 22

We'll have to agree to disagree then.

allenp

NASCAR Fan:



Disclaimer: This is a joke. No offense intended. Hopefully everyone finds this as hilarious as I do.

Catch 22

For a guy to be bald and have that much hair on his back just proves my belief that sometimes God (whoever yours is) is just plain mean.