RacinmySi

I continue to be surprised by the number of bling videos I watch online of races and even track days where drivers do not heel/toe. It is fairly amazing. All the expense on parts etc. and fundamentally not working on seat time and driving as much as I would think people should. I say this from first person videos as well as sounds from cars around etc.. I dunno maybe me....

Practice on your street cars, you are leaving an awful lot of time in your foot (the stop one not the go one)

nonsense

I just HPDE, but I heel toe. I learned how at Bondurant racing school, and I'll tell you that I would have never gotten it right by trying it on the track. We ran up and down a straight portion, upshifting to 3rd, then braking and down to 2nd. We did this over and over for at least an hour before we got it right. If you have to think about actually driving on track and learn how to heel-toe properly there's just too much distraction.

I did have a NASA instructor ask me if I was even letting out the clutch when downshifting, so I guess I'm doing it good enough for the passenger not to feel it

BrianZ

I have not seen any difernce in my lap times when I heal-toe(or any other real ill effects).. now if i races a RWD I would be for sure!

Honda318dx

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BrianZ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have not seen any difernce in my lap times when I heal-toe(or any other real ill effects).. now if i races a RWD I would be for sure! </TD></TR></TABLE>

I agree, heel-toe can be next to worthless as far as lap times in FWD cars, as far as saving your tranny/clutch, nothing is better

Evan55

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Honda318dx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I agree, heel-toe can be next to worthless as far as lap times in FWD cars,</TD></TR></TABLE>
conceptually at least, you are giving up some braking performance since you have to leave some room in the friction circle to prevent the front wheels from locking up.
In the real world maybe revmatched downshifts dont translate to quicker laps, but IMO at some point not revmatching may hold you back a tenth or 2

Ive been watching some CMP video to prepare for the race there next month, and the driver of the ITA car (who is on this board and done very well at the arrc i believe) doesnt revmatch....so who knows

Vracer111

I can heal and toe in my Tacoma (perfectly setup for heal/toe from factory) ... but forget about heal/toe in the camaro.

BrianZ

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Honda318dx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I agree, heel-toe can be next to worthless as far as lap times in FWD cars, as far as saving your tranny/clutch, nothing is better</TD></TR></TABLE>

as I said.. no ill effects... I have had the same clutch in my race car (it is a OEM clutch too) for 2.5 seasons.

now for an enduro (lets say, 25 hours) I can see rev matching helping... (prevent from overheating the clutch)..

gotocrx

Heel-toe : H4
Atmospheric re-entry : Cessna 152

Maybe that is a bad analogy, but I don't think you are leaving alot on the table not learning how to downshift in a momentum car.

That being said, if you don't know how to downshift, are there any other subtle techniques you might be ignoring that COULD make you faster? Someone who isn't bothering to learn about the subtlties of a proper downshift probably also doesn't recognize the difference between a tire working at 95, 100, and 105%, which really will impact an H4 lap time.

Just learn it. (oh and yes, I heel-toe and double clutch every downshift. It helps keep my legs shaply)

thawley

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by gotocrx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">(oh and yes, I heel-toe and double clutch every downshift. It helps keep my legs shaply) </TD></TR></TABLE>

Really? Is there any point in doing a true "double clutch" with a synchromesh gearbox? I though double clutching was for vintage racers... What's the advantage?

gotocrx

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by thawley &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Really? Is there any point in doing a true "double clutch" with a synchromesh gearbox? I though double clutching was for vintage racers... What's the advantage?</TD></TR></TABLE>

there is no advantage. Except that if I ever blow a syncro in a race, I don't have to stop. I already am not using them. I have had both syncros and clutches go during 25 hour races. Knowing how to drive without them is an advantage and makes you a more versitile driver. "Can you/do you heel-toe and double clutch?" is an important question when we interview 25 hour drivers.

thawley

I wounder if you are just taking about matching revs for a downshift: as in, press the clutch, blip the throttle (to match revs between input shaft and the flywheel), change gears and then release the clutch....

ludaboy93

what is double clutching? when i downshift i simontaniously press the clutch and give a small shot of gas and at the same time drop the gear. is that what double clutching is?

thawley

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ludaboy93 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what is double clutching? when i downshift i simontaniously press the clutch and give a small shot of gas and at the same time drop the gear. is that what double clutching is? </TD></TR></TABLE>
No, it isn't, but that is often referred to as double clutching.

Double clutching, as I understand it, involves releasing the clutch and taking the gearbox out of its current gear, then engaging the clutch to get the input shaft and its gears rotating at the exact same speed as the engine/flywheel, then releasing the clutch again (thus "double" clutching) selecting the new gear, and engaging the clutch again. That's the technique the name came from, but I have never met anyone who actually did it that way...

gotocrx

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by thawley &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Double clutching, as I understand it, involves releasing the clutch and taking the gearbox out of its current gear, then engaging the clutch to get the input shaft and its gears rotating at the exact same speed as the engine/flywheel, then releasing the clutch again (thus "double" clutching) selecting the new gear, and engaging the clutch again. That's the technique the name came from, but I have never met anyone who actually did it that way...</TD></TR></TABLE>

yes, this is what I do. Meet Chris, the one guy you know who does this, I guess ...

But you should know plenty more. Alot of racers I know at least know HOW to double clutch, even if they only rev match in their syncro cars. I just choose to practice it all the time.

thawley

I'm impressed...

gotocrx

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by thawley &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm impressed...</TD></TR></TABLE>

Chris' ego++

Chris F

SSNHTS #1

Evan55

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by thawley &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Double clutching, as I understand it, involves releasing the clutch and taking the gearbox out of its current gear, then engaging the clutch to get the input shaft and its gears rotating at the exact same speed as the engine/flywheel, then releasing the clutch again (thus "double" clutching) selecting the new gear, and engaging the clutch again.</TD></TR></TABLE>
you forgot to mention the throttle blip while in neutral, but I assume that was implied.
I do it on the street but not while racing since its uneccessary. Its buddah smooth...when you get the hang of it its actually easier to nail than a regular revmatch.

the coolest thing about double clutching is that when you get good at it, you can turn it into zero clutching

mikeski38

I heel toe because it sounds cool, and to impress H-T users when my vids go up online

gotocrx

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Evan55 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
the coolest thing about double clutching is that when you get good at it, you can turn it into zero clutching</TD></TR></TABLE>

'zactly!

gotocrx

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mikeski38 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I heel toe because it sounds cool, and to impress H-T users when my vids go up online</TD></TR></TABLE>

I do it for the chicks...

slammed_93_hatch

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by gotocrx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I do it for the chicks...</TD></TR></TABLE>

what does your better half say about that?

mikeski38

The BEST is when chicks heel toe...you guys know what I'm talking about

slammed_93_hatch

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mikeski38 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The BEST is when chicks heel toe...you guys know what I'm talking about </TD></TR></TABLE>
bwhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

BrianZ

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mikeski38 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> and to impress H-T users when my vids go up online</TD></TR></TABLE>

you need a camera before that can happen..