BolivianDc2

I recently installed a Sparco Speed in my g3 Integra and have a couple comments/questions.
I'm not the biggest guy inthe world, so the seat still give me a little play, does sparco make any inserts to really make the seat hold you in?
I bought the seat with sparco slidable rails, the rails give a little play also, is that normal?

Also, I have yet to install the harness, but for a street car, would you suggest a 4 point or 3 point harness? and where would you mount the lower lap belt anchors?

BTW, the seat is very nicely constructed, but the rails look like somebody spent 5 mins making them, fitment was very shitty.

.RJ

Do you have a rollbar/cage?

If not, use stock belts. If you do, then use a SFI approved 5 or 6 point belt. Since you are in NoVa, make a trip down to og racing in manassas.

BolivianDc2

Yea, i was thinkig of useing the stock bel onthe street, and then maybe getting a harness for autocross or any times i need it on the street.

Would you suggest a 4 point or 3 point harness?

thirdvector

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bolivianstrtwpn &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I bought the seat with sparco slidable rails, the rails give a little play also, is that normal?

BTW, the seat is very nicely constructed, but the rails look like somebody spent 5 mins making them, fitment was very shitty.</TD></TR></TABLE>

My freinds Corbeau seat rails actually broke during an accident! Thank god he and his girlfreind were OK. What does a guy have to pay to get well built and SAFE seat rails! Has anybody had similar quality issues with Sparco, Corbeau, or any other manufacturer's rails? I'd like to get a decent seat and a 5 point harness even for street driving. I've bent a steering wheel sideways with my face (resulting in reconstructive surgery) because I slipped out of the open right side of a normal belt. I want to be strapped in to say the least.


Modified by thirdvector at 2:17 AM 9/29/2003

Reza.dc

Third Vector:
Well maybe that particular seat rail was a defect in itself. Maybe poor welds etc..
I made some rails for my sprint seat a while back,
got into head-on collision at 50 mph with no bumper supports.
The seat and harness held up fine ( sparco sprint.Sparco belt 4 point).
Only injuries I had were some cuts above the eye due to having slack on the belt and folding the steering wheel with my dome.. Lucky I didnt leave to much slack Ill try to get some pictures of the crash up.
5 point belts are the way to go, if you have a cage and do more then auto-x.

thirdvector

Well, I mainly just AutoX, but I plan on some HPDE events down the road. I don't see myself investing in, and making the compromises for a cage unless I seriously get bitten by the road racing bug. Is a 5 point really necessary? Should I just go with a more convenient 4 point? My main concerns are increased safety on the street and a nice snug feeling of being really strapped-in while autocrossing. I'm tired of having to hold on due to my nice slippery gsr leather seats. Absolutely no shoulder support in those stock things. However, I'm not going to sacrifice safety due to crappy brackets just because I want a better feeling seat in the twisties.

Reza.dc

If you dont get a cage, dont get a harness.. stick with the oem belts..
if you get a cage or a roll bar a harness is a must, if you flip over ,
the 5 point will come in handy ( anti submarine ) croch belt. So you dont slide under the harness under strong g's.

Geezer

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Do you have a rollbar/cage?

If not, use stock belts. If you do, then use a SFI approved 5 or 6 point belt. Since you are in NoVa, make a trip down to og racing in manassas.</TD></TR></TABLE>

OG also has pads. http://www.ogracing.com/eshop/home.asp?categ=105 and most likely a Speed seat set up so you can sit in it. You should be able to get exactly the fit you want.

thirdvector

To tell you the truth, I'm not sure I understand correctly. What makes having a harness/seat combo make rolling over so much more likely that I need a rollbar/cage? I would think that a having a harness would make the car safer, with or without a cage. I'm only going to run 400f/500r rates in a 2700lb+ street integra, without slicks (if I could afford an extra set of slicks I would probably want a cage). I would be more wary of the guy in a CRX with 600f/900r+ rates w/ slicks and no harness. Where is the fault in my reasoning? Does a harness increase driver confidence so much that a rollover is that much more likely?

Again, thanks for the replies and the education. I'm just trying to understand.

Stinkycheezmonky

In the event of a rollover, a harness will keep your body upright. Without a rollbar, the roof will be crushed, and the first thing it'll hit will be your head. Because your body won't be able to move forward or to the side, your spine will be compressed and/or broken. The OEM 3-point allows your body to move to the side (towards the passenger seat) in that situation, thus preventing said spinal funkage.

BolivianDc2

I am not going to be doing any road courses with my car, maybe just an occaisional autocross where I will need something keep me planted, would a 3 or 4 point be better for that? They are both around the same price +/- $10 for the snap in harnesses.

jung4g

OK, for auto-x a 4pt would do you good. The seat helps right, since you don't have to support yourself with the steering while turning hard -&gt; well the proper harness will do the same thing, making a great combo.

The other reason, besides being crushed in a rollover accident, for not using a harness without a cage is that you'll have to either mount the harness to the rear of the car (BAD), the factory rear spots (WORSE), or the floor right behind the seat (WORST). In order to properly use a harness, you need a harness bar (preferably on the roll cage). If you have too much excess belt between you and the mounting point, the belt is worthless (yes nylon stretches that much, that it's Dangerous). If you mount it too low, two things can happen: With a 4pt, it will end up pulling the lap belts up enough so you can submarine, or slide under the belt. With a 5pt, if the belt is mounted below you, when you strap in tight, you're actually compressing your spine, due the downward angle (assuming your shoulders are above the holes for the harness) or you're stressing the seat much more than need.

You don't want the shoulder straps mounted at more than 15 degrees below the harness holes.

Also, to help you fit the seat better, get some kidney pads, sparco has them for like $20 and they just velcro on where you need them, they are great, also check out the lumbar supports.

Final word, to be planted in, get a 5pt harness and a cage, at least a 4pt (they look cool, and the safety factor and chassis stiffening is well worth it).

Be safe

Jung

BolivianDc2

Thanks alot Jung, do you know of any Harness mounts that could be easily installed/removed, so I could set up a 4 point belt?
I take it it is not safe to mount the harnesses on a c-pillar bar

thirdvector

I see said the blind man...
Thank you Jung, sscguy, George and everyone else whose suggestions intended to keep me alive and well.

So maybe a nice snug seat and the factory three-point would suffice for now until I'm ready to get a cage.

I just don't trust the factory belt anymore though after the facial reconstruction I went through. Is there any harness setup that doesn't render the rear seats useless (forever)? Perhaps a bolt-in bar between the factory belt mounting points on the B pillar? This would be for autocross only obviously, I don't want a crushed spine/skull. Although I'm starting to think that this setup to too much compromise. Bolts can break during an accident.

Yet another (compromising) idea. What about a rear-only cage? (Rear seats be damned) Convertibles seem to get away with it. I'd like to aviod cutting into the dash with the A-pillar bars if possible. Yet again, the though crosses my mind-"if you've gone this far, why not purchase the whole enchilada?"

Although it seems that I've ansewered my own questions, I'd still like your input on these two setups.

SJR

"rear-only cage" is called a roll bar. They have 4 points of attachment and are perfect for autocross. Also very good for driving event.
Autopower and Kirk racing both make very decent bolt-in 4pt bars, and they both have the option of ordering them with a removable cross-bar (harness bar, if you will) - rendering the rear seat accessible when not competing. They cost around $500. A custom-made welded in bar will probably cost around $1500 from a good builder.
Keep in mind that removing the crossbar (and re-installing it) can be a pain, and that it would be dangerous for passengers to be riding in the back with the bars near their heads. You will compromise safety somewhat with a roll bar in the car for daily driving duties (you will also have a piece of metal close to your head, and you won't be wearing a helmet, or a harness on the street)

But hey, it's all about compromises and choices. Your call. I personally drove around for a year in an integra with a roll bar. It was a reasonable compromise for ***me***.

You can also do a search for roll bars and find MANY threads discussing these issues in great detail.

hth

Stinkycheezmonky

As for the "ruining the rear seat" issue, just take it out to bolt your harnesses in. You may also want to look into some of the Schroth harnesses, I believe they have one that's about as close as one will ever get to being street legal, something with a retractor...I don't know, I could be wrong, but it may be worth looking into. Something else to possibly look into is a car with an airbag, if it's that much of a worry for you.