SCCA ITS question....
03-22-2006, 05:24 PM
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SCCA ITS question....
I'm looking to build an ITS GSR soon. Problem is I want to build it slowly by buying a shell first, building that, and then getting the drivetrain further down the road. LS shells are alot easier to find so I'm wondering how the rules would be interpretted for putting a gsr drivetrain in the ls and racing as a gsr in ITS. AS long as I get a shell that has a sunroof I don't see any reason why anyone would protest it but I want to hear what you guys think.
03-22-2006, 05:40 PM
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Re: SCCA ITS question.... (hybrid_KJ)
I think the car has a better chance in ITA than ITS, why not go that route?
However, if you do want to run ITS, you could swap the engines in as the shells are identical - this is technically illegal, but I do know of a few that have done this. Proceed at your own risk
There is a really nice looking ITS GSR f/s in GRM, and it would be a lot cheaper than building your own.
However, if you do want to run ITS, you could swap the engines in as the shells are identical - this is technically illegal, but I do know of a few that have done this. Proceed at your own risk
There is a really nice looking ITS GSR f/s in GRM, and it would be a lot cheaper than building your own.
03-22-2006, 05:41 PM
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Re: SCCA ITS question.... (hybrid_KJ)
No joy for you I am afraid. SCCA has no sense of humor about the chassis in IT. It does not allow changes, even chassis that really are the same. Is this where I am supposed to put in the sly reference to the GSR I have for sale? Hint hint.
03-22-2006, 05:53 PM
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Re: SCCA ITS question.... (.RJ)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think the car has a better chance in ITA than ITS, why not go that route?
However, if you do want to run ITS, you could swap the engines in as the shells are identical - this is technically illegal, but I do know of a few that have done this. Proceed at your own risk There is a really nice looking ITS GSR f/s in GRM, and it would be a lot cheaper than building your own.</TD></TR></TABLE>
the white one that's been in there for like 6months?
However, if you do want to run ITS, you could swap the engines in as the shells are identical - this is technically illegal, but I do know of a few that have done this. Proceed at your own risk
There is a really nice looking ITS GSR f/s in GRM, and it would be a lot cheaper than building your own.</TD></TR></TABLE>the white one that's been in there for like 6months?
03-22-2006, 06:49 PM
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Re: SCCA ITS question.... (tnord)
Don't do that.
Build an LS/RS for ITA.
The GSR is and will continue to be a dogmeat braking component eater in ITS. Its too heavy and has no torque. People that have built them are practically giving them away, so if you want one, buy, don't build. You can get a full car for the price of a clean running chassis and a good cage.
Build an LS/RS for ITA.
The GSR is and will continue to be a dogmeat braking component eater in ITS. Its too heavy and has no torque. People that have built them are practically giving them away, so if you want one, buy, don't build. You can get a full car for the price of a clean running chassis and a good cage.
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03-23-2006, 03:31 AM
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Re: (Cobra Tim)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Cobra Tim »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Do yourself a favor and stray from ITS right now... The BMWs are kicking *** and taking names. </TD></TR></TABLE>
huh?
as of may 1 the e36s have to use a 29mm SIR. The only dyno chart I've seen so far with the SIR made 161WHP at 5500RPM. There's a kick *** ITS car. Not.
For the OP, There's a GSR running at the front in MARRS last couple years. It can be done. The shell swap idea is a no-no though.
huh?
as of may 1 the e36s have to use a 29mm SIR. The only dyno chart I've seen so far with the SIR made 161WHP at 5500RPM. There's a kick *** ITS car. Not.
For the OP, There's a GSR running at the front in MARRS last couple years. It can be done. The shell swap idea is a no-no though.
03-23-2006, 04:12 AM
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Re: (JoelG)
"Creating a model" is blatantly illegal, end of discussion.
If you really want to race a DC, I say "+1" for building an LS/RS for ITA. The chassis are much more available and cheaper, so are the engines. On top of that, personally, I believe that you'll have a much better chance of going to the ARRC in a DC ITA car and competing versus going to it in a DC ITS car and competing. Yes, I know that there's a small handfull of guys out there who are having some success with them in ITS, but I have yet to see one anywhere near the front of the ARRC field.
Oh yea, and definately buy your first car pre-built. It will save you a crap-ton of time and money and get you into the seat and driving earlier.
If you really want to race a DC, I say "+1" for building an LS/RS for ITA. The chassis are much more available and cheaper, so are the engines. On top of that, personally, I believe that you'll have a much better chance of going to the ARRC in a DC ITA car and competing versus going to it in a DC ITS car and competing. Yes, I know that there's a small handfull of guys out there who are having some success with them in ITS, but I have yet to see one anywhere near the front of the ARRC field.
Oh yea, and definately buy your first car pre-built. It will save you a crap-ton of time and money and get you into the seat and driving earlier.
03-23-2006, 04:16 AM
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Re: (JoelG)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JoelG »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
huh?
as of may 1 the e36s have to use a 29mm SIR. The only dyno chart I've seen so far with the SIR made 161WHP at 5500RPM. There's a kick *** ITS car. Not.
For the OP, There's a GSR running at the front in MARRS last couple years. It can be done. The shell swap idea is a no-no though.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Good... I thought I herd about some restrictions being slapped down on them.
huh?
as of may 1 the e36s have to use a 29mm SIR. The only dyno chart I've seen so far with the SIR made 161WHP at 5500RPM. There's a kick *** ITS car. Not.
For the OP, There's a GSR running at the front in MARRS last couple years. It can be done. The shell swap idea is a no-no though.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Good... I thought I herd about some restrictions being slapped down on them.
03-23-2006, 04:36 AM
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Re: (JoelG)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JoelG »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
huh?
as of may 1 the e36s have to use a 29mm SIR. The only dyno chart I've seen so far with the SIR made 161WHP at 5500RPM. There's a kick *** ITS car. Not.
For the OP, There's a GSR running at the front in MARRS last couple years. It can be done. The shell swap idea is a no-no though.</TD></TR></TABLE>
That is a bit misrepresentative of the real picture. The car that dyno chart was taken from was not up to par from what other BMWs saw before the SIR. It only had 180whp before, whereas the good ones are in the 195+whp range.
The BMW will be just fine, just hopefully not the overdog they were before.
All that said, I still wouldn't build an Integra for ITS.
huh?
as of may 1 the e36s have to use a 29mm SIR. The only dyno chart I've seen so far with the SIR made 161WHP at 5500RPM. There's a kick *** ITS car. Not.
For the OP, There's a GSR running at the front in MARRS last couple years. It can be done. The shell swap idea is a no-no though.</TD></TR></TABLE>
That is a bit misrepresentative of the real picture. The car that dyno chart was taken from was not up to par from what other BMWs saw before the SIR. It only had 180whp before, whereas the good ones are in the 195+whp range.
The BMW will be just fine, just hopefully not the overdog they were before.
All that said, I still wouldn't build an Integra for ITS.
03-23-2006, 04:56 AM
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Re: (Honda318dx)
I own a ITS GSR and I shoudl have listened 3 years ago when I started the build. I fell into the trap that everyone else does. I already owned the car.
Listen to what others are saying. Take your money and buy an already built car that is not a GSR. ITA is the better place to play and the cars are selling now for like a half cent on the dollar.
Listen to what others are saying. Take your money and buy an already built car that is not a GSR. ITA is the better place to play and the cars are selling now for like a half cent on the dollar.
03-23-2006, 05:01 AM
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Re: SCCA ITS question.... (hybrid_KJ)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hybrid_KJ »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm looking to build an ITS GSR soon. Problem is I want to build it slowly by buying a shell first, building that, and then getting the drivetrain further down the road. LS shells are alot easier to find so I'm wondering how the rules would be interpretted for putting a gsr drivetrain in the ls and racing as a gsr in ITS. AS long as I get a shell that has a sunroof I don't see any reason why anyone would protest it but I want to hear what you guys think.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I've got to ask: Why build slowly if at all? If you are working around budget concerns and need to take your time, please take the advice on this board and stay away from ITS. Building will cost you 2.5 times what buying prebuilt will. And then there is the consumables on an S car to factor in. Which will outpace the cost of the build by the end of the first season.
I've got to ask: Why build slowly if at all? If you are working around budget concerns and need to take your time, please take the advice on this board and stay away from ITS. Building will cost you 2.5 times what buying prebuilt will. And then there is the consumables on an S car to factor in. Which will outpace the cost of the build by the end of the first season.
03-23-2006, 05:17 AM
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Re: (JoelG)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JoelG »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
huh?
as of may 1 the e36s have to use a 29mm SIR. The only dyno chart I've seen so far with the SIR made 161WHP at 5500RPM. There's a kick *** ITS car. Not.
For the OP, There's a GSR running at the front in MARRS last couple years. It can be done. The shell swap idea is a no-no though.</TD></TR></TABLE>
That may be true, but I'm betting that wasn't a true front runner in the first place.
The big gun BMWs were around the 200+ whp mark before. They'll still see 180+ with the SIR and still have plenty of TQ. Don't cry for the BMW, its still a very good ITS car.
The GSR never was and still isn't. Fully built cars are selling for well under $10K, and people aren't buying them. Uhhhh.... Yeah. Go figure.
Again, Too fast for ITA + Doesn't have the ***** or the brakes for ITS = Stay the hell away.
huh?
as of may 1 the e36s have to use a 29mm SIR. The only dyno chart I've seen so far with the SIR made 161WHP at 5500RPM. There's a kick *** ITS car. Not.
For the OP, There's a GSR running at the front in MARRS last couple years. It can be done. The shell swap idea is a no-no though.</TD></TR></TABLE>
That may be true, but I'm betting that wasn't a true front runner in the first place.
The big gun BMWs were around the 200+ whp mark before. They'll still see 180+ with the SIR and still have plenty of TQ. Don't cry for the BMW, its still a very good ITS car.
The GSR never was and still isn't. Fully built cars are selling for well under $10K, and people aren't buying them. Uhhhh.... Yeah. Go figure.
Again, Too fast for ITA + Doesn't have the ***** or the brakes for ITS = Stay the hell away.
03-23-2006, 05:52 AM
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Re: (Catch 22)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Catch 22 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
That may be true, but I'm betting that wasn't a true front runner in the first place.
The big gun BMWs were around the 200+ whp mark before. They'll still see 180+ with the SIR and still have plenty of TQ. Don't cry for the BMW, its still a very good ITS car.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
nissan 240sx should make about 170whp with what i think is awfully close to the same suspension design as the BMW, but with a 250lb or so less weight than the BMW. sounds intriguing to me.
That may be true, but I'm betting that wasn't a true front runner in the first place.
The big gun BMWs were around the 200+ whp mark before. They'll still see 180+ with the SIR and still have plenty of TQ. Don't cry for the BMW, its still a very good ITS car.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
nissan 240sx should make about 170whp with what i think is awfully close to the same suspension design as the BMW, but with a 250lb or so less weight than the BMW. sounds intriguing to me.
03-23-2006, 06:34 AM
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Re: (tnord)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tnord »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
nissan 240sx should make about 170whp with what i think is awfully close to the same suspension design as the BMW, but with a 250lb or so less weight than the BMW. sounds intriguing to me.</TD></TR></TABLE>
1. Can you GET the 240 to that minimum weight legally and financially reasonably?
2. Does the 240 breathe at the top end to run with the BMWs and RX7s at the end of the straights?
3. What do the brakes look like on a 240?
4. Has the 240 already been looked at by the re-adjusters on the ITAC or is it potentially due to get some weight added (like the del sol just did).
I have no idea what the answers are because I don't care. But they are the first 4 questions I would ask before starting to build one.
nissan 240sx should make about 170whp with what i think is awfully close to the same suspension design as the BMW, but with a 250lb or so less weight than the BMW. sounds intriguing to me.</TD></TR></TABLE>
1. Can you GET the 240 to that minimum weight legally and financially reasonably?
2. Does the 240 breathe at the top end to run with the BMWs and RX7s at the end of the straights?
3. What do the brakes look like on a 240?
4. Has the 240 already been looked at by the re-adjusters on the ITAC or is it potentially due to get some weight added (like the del sol just did).
I have no idea what the answers are because I don't care. But they are the first 4 questions I would ask before starting to build one.
03-23-2006, 06:23 PM
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Re: (Catch 22)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Catch 22 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
1. Can you GET the 240 to that minimum weight legally and financially reasonably?
2. Does the 240 breathe at the top end to run with the BMWs and RX7s at the end of the straights?
3. What do the brakes look like on a 240?
4. Has the 240 already been looked at by the re-adjusters on the ITAC or is it potentially due to get some weight added (like the del sol just did).
I have no idea what the answers are because I don't care. But they are the first 4 questions I would ask before starting to build one.</TD></TR></TABLE>
i know you don't care, but if anyone else does....
1) hard to tell as there are only about a half dozen running in the whole country that i know of. i know of one of them that is down to min weight, and he's down in your area. Chris Newberry, it's the black and Neon green one.
2) that's the one IF. the 93 one has better cams, the 95-98 has the bigger AFM/MAF/Throttle body (one of these, i'm not sure which). if you could somehow get the cams of the 93 in the 95 you'd have 200+ crank hp and plenty up top. as it is with the new SIR you might be able to keep up with the BMW at the top (i'm not too sure how the SIR will affect it), but the RX7 might be tough to keep up with. but you're probably lookin an 40-50+ more ft/lbs of torque than the RX7.
3) 257mm Front, 258mm rear. so the fronts are pretty much the same size as the GSR, but it obviously uses the rear brakes more since it's RWD. they weigh pretty much the same at 26xx lbs, so i think you might be able to get by. i'm guessing you would have shorter stopping distances than the GSR because you'll be able to use the rear tires more, which means less time on the brakes, and less stress/heat on them.
4) it's already been looked at to take weight OFF, but it didn't happen. i'd bet a beer it's not going up.
i think it's an interesting possibility of a car. pretty light for ITS, super reliable motor, stump-pulling torque, and good balance at 50/50 distribution from the factory. should at least be competitive on the regional level, the ARRC might be a bit of a stretch though.
1. Can you GET the 240 to that minimum weight legally and financially reasonably?
2. Does the 240 breathe at the top end to run with the BMWs and RX7s at the end of the straights?
3. What do the brakes look like on a 240?
4. Has the 240 already been looked at by the re-adjusters on the ITAC or is it potentially due to get some weight added (like the del sol just did).
I have no idea what the answers are because I don't care. But they are the first 4 questions I would ask before starting to build one.</TD></TR></TABLE>
i know you don't care, but if anyone else does....
1) hard to tell as there are only about a half dozen running in the whole country that i know of. i know of one of them that is down to min weight, and he's down in your area. Chris Newberry, it's the black and Neon green one.
2) that's the one IF. the 93 one has better cams, the 95-98 has the bigger AFM/MAF/Throttle body (one of these, i'm not sure which). if you could somehow get the cams of the 93 in the 95 you'd have 200+ crank hp and plenty up top. as it is with the new SIR you might be able to keep up with the BMW at the top (i'm not too sure how the SIR will affect it), but the RX7 might be tough to keep up with. but you're probably lookin an 40-50+ more ft/lbs of torque than the RX7.
3) 257mm Front, 258mm rear. so the fronts are pretty much the same size as the GSR, but it obviously uses the rear brakes more since it's RWD. they weigh pretty much the same at 26xx lbs, so i think you might be able to get by. i'm guessing you would have shorter stopping distances than the GSR because you'll be able to use the rear tires more, which means less time on the brakes, and less stress/heat on them.
4) it's already been looked at to take weight OFF, but it didn't happen. i'd bet a beer it's not going up.
i think it's an interesting possibility of a car. pretty light for ITS, super reliable motor, stump-pulling torque, and good balance at 50/50 distribution from the factory. should at least be competitive on the regional level, the ARRC might be a bit of a stretch though.
03-23-2006, 06:36 PM
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Re: (tnord)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tnord »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
the ARRC might be a bit of a stretch though.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Thats pretty funny in a post about the competitiveness of a 240.
Did you do that on purpose?
the ARRC might be a bit of a stretch though.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Thats pretty funny in a post about the competitiveness of a 240.
Did you do that on purpose?
03-24-2006, 05:31 AM
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Re: (tnord)
There are tons of ITA cars. And I do not think he is looking to get into a ITS 240. That is why I am building my own. I am getting insite from Newberry, and others.
03-24-2006, 06:30 AM
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Re: (tnord)
The original poster was interested in building a GSR, not a 240. I think the "buy, don't build" advice wasn't specifically referring to either of these two cars, regardless of how many have been built, but IT cars in general. There are plenty of ready-to-race cars available for pennies on the dollar when compared to the cost to build.