Speedworks801

Pretty typical for a naturally aspirated guy that drives a low horsepower car to chime in and "critique" your driving. They are not used to the various things that you are focused on in a turbo car when going around a race course. And they are only familiar with incremental gains they have made by applying techniques they have learned to pick up .2 or .3 secs a lap in their underpowered cars. The same guys that will tell you to learn how to race in a miata before you drive anything that actually makes power.

News Flash

The lines in a high horsepower car are completely different because of the acceleration. The little things that work in "Challenged Honda" cars don't make the top of the list for a guy piloting a car that is characteristically different in EVERY WAY imaginable.

So don't be shaken by "Experts" and "Critics" telling you how they would drive your car. The fact is they don't.

My hats off to a guy who has had the guts to learn to build a high horsepower car and the guts to road race it in the Honda world that is a rare thing. You guys are lucky he has shared his knowledge and videos with you at all.

Keep up the good work. Can't wait to see you out at Miller this year again. Looking forward to a beautiful season!


Gill

Lo-Buck EF

blowing smoke up his *** won't make him faster.

and you couldn't be more incorrect, gill. why do we tell people to learn to drive on track in slow cars? so they learn how o DRIVE ON TRACK! get all the basics and fundamentals down. learn how to carry speed and get the most out of the car. then, when u add power, automatically go faster. i drive an 'underpowered' car i guess. but i have driven my share of 'fast' cars and all were driven to the limit. lines vary slightly. SLIGHTLY. but if you came up through the ranks in a slow car, you will adapt quickly to maximizing the car and adjusting the line accordingly.

powerneedy

I'm not here to entice either one of you or sway from one side or the other as I agree with both of you. But how do you know how much track experience I do have? I may not be a veteran or have as many days on the track as some of the full blown HC followers but I wouldn't call my self a noob

Speedworks801

Let me be the first to welcome out to Miller Motorsports Park this year LoBuck!!

Come enlighten us

Check out Lapbattle.com for the events here in Utah!

Lo-Buck EF

i'd love to come out there. that track looks like fun. but its a little far of a haul from the NYC area. but, like i said, im sure the HC guys out there could help ya'll along with becomming faster track drivers.

i didn't call you a noob. i have no idea how much track experience you have. what i did say, is you are doing it wrong. you have plenty to improve on in your driving to get to a level that most would call 'fast.' this has nothing to do with the 'im a racer, so you are slower than me' attitude. i'm just trying to point u in the direction you should be going in without sugar coating it.

powerneedy

Hey Gill I just put a face with the name haha, How is the project coming along? Pm me if you would like.

Lo-Buck I do know there is room to improve with this car. What your not understanding is that I never once said this was the best car and/or driver. Also what your not understanding is that there is no "cookie cutter" build for this type of car to be fast in TT scenario. Now if I wanted to build a HC car or any other strict rule set series car it is pretty cut and dry as this is allowed and this isnt etc. I can build a car in that rule set and go out and have next to 0 issues and focus on squeezing every last little tenth out of the car, That is not the only enjoyment for me. Great you have driven a high horsepower car, Did you build it? Do you have video for us to critique? How many first place wins do you have? There is a HUGE difference between driving a car that is stupid fast with every single mechanical issue figured out, with the balance of suspension and down force all worked out to Building a car and figuring out what works and what doesn't. In the video you cant see or sense stability, braking feel, or anything really going on with the car. The one thing I am not following here is the attitude towards me, You ARE acting like just because your a racer I am slower than you. Let me lay down some facts in hopes you can see the light. Last season a great driver that has raced in quite of few series was racing basically HC spec car, I suffered from a few issues one being a alternator that I had just replaced and the other under steer. He helped me with lines on East course and really picked up some time but the car was being a pig and along with that had to retire early due to the alternator dying. He ran over 2.5 seconds faster than me that day. The next race happened to be East course again, This time I had changed rear spring rates and alternator and that was it. I ran just shy of 6 seconds faster than my old time beating his time by 3 second. The whole season except the last race of the year we battled cooling temps and it greatly reduced my time in the car and made the main focus to getting the car to lay down a solid lap to compare to. The Last race of the year we figured out the cooling issue finally and the car ran in temps it should and we finally got to focus on driving the car, hence why the old FWD race record was smashed along with running considerably faster than even your HC champions. I have gone to playing in the middle of the pack to being in top cars in LB. Do I think I am the best? NO! Is my car the fastest?NO! I will tell you that any day of the week no matter who you are. I can tell you that my budget is pretty small as I have no sponsors like yourself But 99% of this car was done by Myself, friend, father, and father in law so the dollar has been stretched pretty far. What have you done put the motor in the car and changed the brake pads? I have nothing against you but its obvious that your attitude is coming off a bit nasty if others are jumping in. Again get a plane ticket and fly out to try out this devil car and I'm sure you would enjoy hanging out with us hooligans.

This is a pretty small community in the RR section, I may not post a ton but I answer tons of pms and doing so I usually just lurk. I don't want any of you guys as enemies or have hard feeling towards me/each other so chill out I know I am not a perfect driver but instead of telling me I am doing wrong point out how I can fix it...

Lo-Buck EF

you seemed fine with my constructive criticism untill gill jumped in there to give you a hug and tell you us 'racers' are mean and don't know what its like to build a car from scratch, go through issues, work out bugs and drive fast cars.
apparently saying 'hey, there's still time out there in your driving' makes me a mean guy. oh well.
and, like i said, id love to come out and drive your car. but at 6'8", i know for a fact i will not fit in it.
have a nice day

Lo-Buck EF

oh, and if you'd like to pick my driving apart please feel free. i like all the criticism i can get.
http://vimeo.com/7443073
this one has PLENTY of mistakes---->http://vimeo.com/5740343
this one too. i'm the red/silver hatch----> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MTV0DI5ZjM

powerneedy

I made the same comments in the last post just more in depth. Your post however is short and non informative to any of my questions. The last video that I watched is narrow and bumpy with you guys on each others bumpers of course it looks like you guys are flying. There are a few little mistakes here and there but thats human. Again you didn't give criticism you just told me I sucked and learn to drive in quick terms

Its alright I invited you out to come drive my car to show us how its done and you declined. The Beauty of innovation is that my seat setup will allow a guy your size to adjust the seat back and if your a 38" waist or below you can even use my seat, If not I have a recaro that would work for ya.

Lo-Buck EF

yea, the last one (you tube link) isn't from my car so there isnt much i can do there.

if you want sepcifics about what i saw in your videos, i see places where you can carry more speed in the corners. (i have to re watch it to figure out corner numbers). i know your brakes weren't working, so im not gonna worry about that. i also saw you miss some apexs by a pretty good bit. again, i have to re-watch it, but i dont think it was due to a lack of brakes. but even though you have a ton of power, it doesn't mean you can't drive the car like a 'momentum' car. carry as much speed through the corners as you can.
oh, and learning how rev match the down shifts will help the clutch and trans to last a little bit longer, take some wear off the mounts, and if it rains you will be happy you learned how. you can brake deep and not worry about locking the tires when you release the clutch. also, if you ever drove a rear wheel drive car at the limit with a set up like yours (multi disc clutch, ect) it would want to lock the rears and turn you around. especially if its wet, the tires are cold, blah blah.

DB2-R81

So many suffers of bigger dick syndrome, I can only guess posters wouldn't be exposing their junk on here if they weren’t suffering, it’s the nature of the beast.

powerneedy

Lo-Buck, Boom that is what I was talking about! Thanks for the information. I critique and know where most of my mistakes are its just trying to fix them as you have 9 other things on your mind about the car/lines/cars in your way. I see that you listened about the brakes, I had to be short and sweet with them to avoid loosing them which gets tricky trying to rev match. I have driven a almost stock S2k close as I could to the limit and was a blast, In which I rev matched without any issues. Driving this car like a momentum car is tough because its so touchy as far as power and can disrupt the cars attitude so quickly but as I am figuring it... Thanks again

Lo-Buck EF

vbspec

I could not disagree more with this. First to Powerneedy.... The car is sick dude nice work.

But the line is the line... sorry

I worked with pro driver Mike Skeen 1 on 1 last summer for 2 days and his line is the same in my 215HP NA H1 Integra as it is in any other car.

Here are 2 examples
Him in my car
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8E2L5d_xLSA

Him in a 430 that they ran in last years Dayton 24 (my car is off to the left at the start.... it was my first race)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTvnP89J7fs

bks84

iTrader: (9)

Awesome thread! Great progress man! What have you decided on doing for the trans?

known

iTrader: (1)

Wow, a lot of disrespect towards a guy with a lot of seat time and success.

First of all powerneedy, your build is a very well done and is aesthetically pleasing vehicle. I loved some of the fab work you did.


Spencer is absolutely right with his comments. By the way, a lot of us build our own cars.


This is just sad:

" And they are only familiar with incremental gains they have made by applying techniques they have learned to pick up .2 or .3 secs a lap in their underpowered cars. The same guys that will tell you to learn how to race in a miata before you drive anything that actually makes power. "

Hey champ, I suppose there is no ryhme or reason guy go from the Playboy Cup if they are lucky to get there up to racing World Challenge, Grand-Am, and more.

What you just described, incremental gains of .2-.3 secs is a difference between a good driver and a Great driver.....read that again and see how dumb you look.

I actually personally went down in power by about 40whp and I'm running the same times I was before if not slightly faster....hmmm wonder what changed?

Powerneedy, I bet you run faster times shaving 25% of your power down. Actually having to find those "incremental gains" instead of using that pedal that makes cool noises on the straights is what will put you where you seem to want to be with your personal goals.

I'm not picking at you, it seems you opened up a little the last few posts here but I couldn't not say anything with some of these bs comments going on.

Egezzy

iTrader: (2)

i figured i would add a third party opinion as well. i don't know powerneedy, nor do i know spencer, personally. i do know lo buck, spencer, through here and a mutual friend, who happend to be my first instructor.

after my second event, i sent some in car to spencer to see what he thought, among others. i remember exactly what all was said, but i don't think there was any "you did this good." it was all what i could improve on. maybe my mindframe is a bit different than some, but i love constructive criticism. with the right mindframe, that can be gold, to me atleast.

i send my videos to a few different people after every event, plus have people ride with me at the events. any info i can get is excellent, there is more than one way to do one thing. whether it is brake later or get on the gas earlier, per a given corner etc.

itr expo, last year, as an example, t8 was a particular corner where some discussion went on. i had sander ride along with me, at the time i was on pretty worn r1rs and my first time out on xr3 pads. i was braking at the 4 marker and he thought i could go deeper than 3. i didn't think that was really possible, but hey, sander is a good guy and i trust him. so, i took/talked before to a good friend, adam jabaay, redstandardzchatch on here, to go out with me. we go out and i try the 3 marker and it was way sketchy to say the least. i was faster in, obviously, but my exit speed was 2-3mph slower. ok, so let's back it off to about 3.5, which seemed to work super well. a buddy who is a ttc s2000 driver, who holds a few track records and placed second last year at nationals, ride along as well earlier in the day. we talked about it afterwards, his thought process is/was different than sander's. is one more right than the other one, no, not really. it is up to the driver, but i would be stupid not to listen to the 3 of them. they all have way more laps in, so whether they are "right" or not, i should listen.


spencer won their region a few years back. a quick glance at their nasa site, he holds a track record.

no car is ever perfectly sorted, ask spencer, he had issues most of last year.

there is no comparison to your car and a hc car, even if it is a h1 car. power to weight is a bit off.


this, there may be a variance depending on handling, car set up, etc.


this, as well.

it seemed as if the "there is some time left." comment got to you. a simple reply would have been "understood. could you help me by showing me where?" instead it turned into a pissing match, that goes nowhere.

like i stated before, stinkycheese was my first instructor. to be honest, the first couple sessions, i thought he was a dick. but, his life was in my hands, for one. two, if you want to "grow" as a driver, you are going to have to deal criticism. i know for a fact, that to this day, if i have any questions, stinky is a phone call away.

so, maybe, spencer came off as a dick. guess what though, he might have a wealth of knowledge that could help you get around the track quicker. this is a sport where in the processes of learning, the ego needs to be left at home. it will be way easier to learn with an open mind.


also, this one here. try working on 1 or 2 of those 9 "things" a session. if it is a test and tune or a de, it would be for the best. if it is a race or a timed lap, well, not much you can do except be better prepared the next time.

powerneedy

I dont mind the criticism at all and have a very open mind but if I feel like I am being attacked im going to step a bit outside, The thing there is a fine line between critiquing and just being a dick. I felt he was giving me the same attitude as the "noobs" that flop in this forum and ask for the world. I feel we are all on the same page now which is great, like I said I want no hard feelings...

known, The car is on lowest boost setting the car can make. Whp is unknown but it makes 10 psi with a spike of 12 psi in the right scenario. I would have to drop down to a much much smaller turbo to make less power but I would still have about the same down low I would just loose the upper rpms power so really that wouldn't do much. If any thing a bigger one would do better as the lag would help haha.

20CiviC02Si

iTrader: (3)

^Completely agree with you on this topic!

You have to be careful not to jump right to the defensive when dealing with an online forum. Mainly because there is no way to understand his context. Whether someone is being an arrogant *******, or just trying to help out. That's the biggest issue with online forums, you're not talking to that person directly. Just reading his text based opinion. It's then up to you to figure out if he's helping or hurting.

Speedworks801

Truth: We don't all have to race 150 hp cars to learn how to drive

Truth: If a guy is a Jerk and a good driver, he is still a Jerk.

There are lots of great drivers in these forums that simply visit a guys build page as say "nice build". You can see pages full of them.

Powerneedy, the first event is coming up quickly, I'm not sure if I'm going to make the deadline are you?

Have you decided on tires?

Did you make the NASA meeting?

Lo-Buck EF

hahahha, now i'm a jerk? thats awesome! just let it go, guy.

Atmosfear

iTrader: (18)

^^Jesus still loves you

known

iTrader: (1)

Speedworks801

Have you decided to go with 18's so you have more access to take-offs? Did you hear that we are going to Global Time Attack rules?

powerneedy

Deadline is flying here so quickly it makes my sick LOL! I knew we went to nasa and gta rules. I will most likely stick to 17s for now as its already taken lots of work to make them fit and tires I will still run the r888 but am going to try to find a cheap set of slicks to try them out but I dont want to get hooked on them just yet haha.