VenWood

I was interested in the development of PM6 ECU. I have a 91 honda crx si stock ecu, rebuilt motor, .5% higher compression. I do road racing in SCCA and am legally allowed to change whaever will fit inside stock computer casing with stock plug connections. I have heard there are differences in usdm, canadia and jdm ecu's. The jdm & canadian having different factory settings allowing for more hp. Is this true? Besides this what would anyone suggest doing i.e. replacing internals-same factory connections?, replacing chip?, replacing ecu with jdm?
P.S. I have visited pgmfi.org but I am looking for experienced users to steer me in right direction. Thanks for the help

drdisco69

If you can't find what you want to know about a PM6 on pgmfi.org, then I don't know what the hell you're up to, but it must be crazy.

Chipping the PM6 will make it do whatever you want, and makes the USDM/CDM/EDM/JDM thing moot. You can adjust fuel and timing maps to what works best with your motor, and be better off than any stock ecu.

VenWood

Thanks for the response. I was just looking for a easier option ie buying a different ecu.
If you think changing the chip is the right answer I will go into pgmfi in depth. At this point I have never played with programing but will read up and look for help. Thanks

drdisco69

Yeah, the chip allows you to change (most) every aspect of the ecu you want. TurboEdit will probably be the best choice for what you want to do. There's really no programming knowledge required, it's a friendly GUI.

b18_crx

I HEARD SOMEHWRE PM7(ZC) HAS more aggressive fuel/timing.........

drdisco69

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b18_crx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I HEARD SOMEHWRE PM7(ZC) HAS more aggressive fuel/timing......... </TD></TR></TABLE>

I heard it doesn't matter.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by drdisco69 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You can adjust fuel and timing maps to what works best with your motor, and be better off than any stock ecu.</TD></TR></TABLE>

rioninja

Turboedit is exactly what you need. Try the newbies section on PGMFI.org until you know what your doing.

VenWood

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rioninja &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Turboedit is exactly what you need. Try the newbies section on PGMFI.org until you know what your doing. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Thats me I appreciate the advice.

jisu009

I race a 1990 civic Si in ITA and F production.

You need Turboedit in order to remain legal. You will need to obtain a second PM6 ecu to wire for the tuning and datalogging, then have your "race PM6" socketed with a ZIF (zero insertion force) socket. This will allow you to change the EPROM chips that you have tuned with the second ECU. Feel free to email me for more information.

jisu009@comcast.net

What region do you race with? What class is the car?

rioninja

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jisu009 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
You need Turboedit in order to remain legal. You will need to obtain a second PM6 ecu to wire for the tuning and datalogging, then have your "race PM6" socketed with a ZIF (zero insertion force) socket. This will allow you to change the EPROM chips that you have tuned with the second ECU. Feel free to email me for more information.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I dont understand.. why are you recommending that he get two ecus? You can do everything you need with one. Not flaming, just curious how your doing things on your setup.

VenWood

The two ecu's are because we are only allowed to use a stock box one allows for recording information durring practice, and one that will allow me to put a chip in that i can replace with different chips as I see fit for races. I think?

90crvtec

You can also checkout the PG7 ECU's from an integra (get one from a 5spd). These usually run you about $70 and they are a drop in replacement for the Si motors. I know because I ran one for over a year, it runs the car a little rich by default and has more agressive fuel maps for the integra's engine. This should be right up your alley if you've done some work to your motor and you're looking for more performance. However, its still an OEM ECU so it won't give you the flexibility of tuning any more so than modifying your PM6 to work with a tuning program like turbo edit. Just my 2c.

sanimalp

you can do both those things with only 1 ecu. you can have programmable fuel maps and datalogging all within the stock ecu if you get it chipped and get a socket added for the datalogging plug. all you have to do is during practice run the ecu with the lid off for the datalogger, and then for the race you take the wire out of the datalogger plug on the board, and put the lid on. so you can run the same ecu you tuned. but you could do 2 also.

for about $100 i bought all the stuff i needed to make my ecu fully programmable and enable datalogging, and right now it is sitting in my car looking as stock as ever. no one knows its even there until i use launch control or they see my check engine light flash as my rev limit is approaching. and its all on a stock oem pm6 with a single chip and a basic 4 point plug.

MatHadder

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sanimalp &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you can do both those things with only 1 ecu. you can have programmable fuel maps and datalogging all within the stock ecu if you get it chipped and get a socket added for the datalogging plug. </TD></TR></TABLE>

What he is saying is that the datalogging plug is not legal in the racing class. So in order to datalog, you need an ecu with the datalogging setup, and a zif socket, and to race you need one with just the zif socket.

rioninja

AHH that would explain it. But, the datalogging cable is easily unplugged from the ecu, leaving only 4 small pins (how most do it). Isnt it only illegal to datalog WHILE racing?

sanimalp

but he also said that the entire unit must reside within the oem case. which it would if you just soldered in a datalogging plug onto the board itself. i have one on my oem ecu right now and from looking at the case you would not know that it was modified at all. you might be thinking about hondata's setup or whoever has the serial port built into the side of the ecu itself. that would be visible, but its more of a convenience than a neccesity. im just trying to save the guy a few bucks in that he wouldnt need to buy a second ecu.

jisu009

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sanimalp &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">but he also said that the entire unit must reside within the oem case. which it would if you just soldered in a datalogging plug onto the board itself. i have one on my oem ecu right now and from looking at the case you would not know that it was modified at all. you might be thinking about hondata's setup or whoever has the serial port built into the side of the ecu itself. that would be visible, but its more of a convenience than a neccesity. im just trying to save the guy a few bucks in that he wouldnt need to buy a second ecu. </TD></TR></TABLE>

actually, you have a point there. If you just solder the plug to the board and use the Nokia data cable, that should work. As long as you don't cut a hole in the ECU to mount the serial or usb...then you will be fine. The EUC has to retain it's unmodified OEM housing.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 90crvtec &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You can also checkout the PG7 ECU's from an integra</TD></TR></TABLE>

Can't do that....we have this little things called rules.

Just for reference here is the specfic rule:

"Fuel injected cars may alter or replace the engine management computer, or ECU, provided that all modifications are done within the original OEM EUC housing. Only the stock (unmodified) OEM EUC connection to the wiring harness may be used. The allowance to modify the ECU in no way permits the addition of wiring, sensors, or piggybacked computers outside of the OEM ECU housing. THe stock unmodified wiring harness must be used."



Modified by jisu009 at 11:44 AM 9/29/2005

sanimalp

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jisu009 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

actually, you have a point there. If you just solder the plug to the board and use the Nokia data cable, that should work. As long as you don't cut a hole in the ECU to mount the serial or usb...then you will be fine. The Ecu has to retain it's unmodified OEM housing.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

exactly

VenWood

[QUOTE=jisu009]actually, you have a point there. If you just solder the plug to the board and use the Nokia data cable, that should work. As long as you don't cut a hole in the ECU to mount the serial or usb...then you will be fine. The EUC has to retain it's unmodified OEM housing.

Can any of you guys recomend a Tuner with the ability to set up my ECU with the zif
port and the plug for the nokia cable. I believe then I can tune with turbo edit and a palm pilot. I was hoping to find someone to set this up properly and then help analyze my information, and burn chips. Obviously a shop with a dino can do this but not all of them would be familliar with turbo edit & honda's. I looked through recommended tuners on turboedit's web site, no luck in florida. Can any one recomend a good tuner. I'm sure I could figure this out on my own but someone out their has already invested in the burner, knows the software and has experience tweaking honda's. I'm not looking to re-invent the wheel, just make it turn faster.

Tyson

jisu, actually the PG7 ecu mainboard fits right in the PM6 ecu housing, so its completely legal. but all it does for you really is give you an extra 300rpm before fuel cutoff. and i have dynoed it, i didnt get any better HP, slightly worse actually. FPR tuning could help since I noticed a difference in A/F ratio.

Venwood, just get a zdyne. its big bucks, but from what i understand, its a good IT legal option.

this post should really by moved to rr/ax forum. youre going to be more relevent responses than the average crowd here...

rioninja

I disagree on the Zdyne. Its a great option, but Turboedit has easily surpassed it at -100% of the cost.

sanimalp

from what ive read on h-t, z-dyne hasnt seen any development or customer support for a couple years now.

i wish i lived in florida, i would be happy to chip your setup for you and help you tune it. there are guys who will chip your ecu for you, the user xenocron is pretty active in pgmfi and software development for obd0, and he wont charge you an arm and a leg. as for tuning, that gets more tricky. you can tune it yourself if you pick up a wideband, which can be had for under $400 for a descent setup. if you bought a wideband and a rom burner, you would be out about $500, but you would be able to chip and tune just about any obd-0 or obd-1 honda you can think of.

http://www.moates.net can set you up with everything you need. and all that stuff is supported by craig moates himself. he can chip your ecu for you also.

jisu009

Yeah I wouldn't go with the Zdyne, you are essentially shelling out big bucks for software that does the same thing as TE.

Your best bet is to buy a chipped PM6 from xenocron, have him burn a stock map to a chip....and see if you can find a local tuner who is willing to take a look/learn a new software. It really isn't all that differnt from any other software on the market....the basic concepts of tuning are the same.

chad

get an 89 integra 5 speed ecu....

jisu009

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by chad &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">get an 89 integra 5 speed ecu....</TD></TR></TABLE>

It's an ITA car.

You cannot change the ECU.