OPM LSD
10-17-2005, 05:03 PM
#276
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Re: (EdoMoto)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EdoMoto »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Currently have quaiffe. Wanted OPM but not anymore unless i see some pics. No pic then im getting another quaiffe.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I almost hate to ask this but, considering the advertised advantage of the warranty and inherent long life of the gears, why do you need ANOTHER Quaife?
I almost hate to ask this but, considering the advertised advantage of the warranty and inherent long life of the gears, why do you need ANOTHER Quaife?
10-17-2005, 05:33 PM
#277
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Re: (George Knighton)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I almost hate to ask this but, considering the advertised advantage of the warranty and inherent long life of the gears, why do you need ANOTHER Quaife?</TD></TR></TABLE>
For my spare Tranny. So i can have 2.
I almost hate to ask this but, considering the advertised advantage of the warranty and inherent long life of the gears, why do you need ANOTHER Quaife?</TD></TR></TABLE>
For my spare Tranny. So i can have 2.
10-18-2005, 09:07 AM
#279
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Re: (Tyson)
If i understand all this LSD stuff right, i can add this:
I have beside me my original differential. Well, those spiders surfaces are not event close to be flat! If you make them flat you might (my opinion) get more surface for grip! So, when they put in that OPM blocks, they can take out spiders and surface them.
Beside that, they might make that blocks from a material that has a bigger friction coefficient. Why not, all you need to do is test
Has anyone any info about a material from which that block are made? What about springs characteristics?
I have beside me my original differential. Well, those spiders surfaces are not event close to be flat! If you make them flat you might (my opinion) get more surface for grip! So, when they put in that OPM blocks, they can take out spiders and surface them.
Beside that, they might make that blocks from a material that has a bigger friction coefficient. Why not, all you need to do is test
Has anyone any info about a material from which that block are made? What about springs characteristics?
10-18-2005, 01:19 PM
#280
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Re: (CRX-ZC)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CRX-ZC »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Has anyone any info about a material from which that block are made? What about springs characteristics?</TD></TR></TABLE>
The AZ race and Machine unit claims to be made of 4140 steel.
EDIT: Hi...pictures?
Has anyone any info about a material from which that block are made? What about springs characteristics?</TD></TR></TABLE>
The AZ race and Machine unit claims to be made of 4140 steel.
EDIT: Hi...pictures?
10-18-2005, 10:42 PM
#282
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Re: This is what going mad must feel like....
Wow, 10 pages and still going. Rougly 5% useful information, 45% speculation, and 50% personal attacks. I think it's got to be some sort of lame thread record!
Even more amazingly, I can't sleep and I'm so bored I not only read through all 10 pages of this drek, but I'm also compelled to actually respond!
Unfortunately my data is also subjective. But since I have race wins, track records, and a championship I figure I pass the Schultz-Giles criteria for being a road-race know-it-all
.
I've used a variety of differentials (OPM, Quaife, OEM ITR and Mugen). I've only used the OPM diff in low-HP cars (specifically, our old ITC Rabbit), and it was a decent differential. I like the Quaife differential better, as it feels better on turn-in and seems to engage more smoothly. We never had any wheelspin problems with the VW, but it had maybe half the HP and 1/3 the toruqe of an ITR or a Prelude.
I think the reason you see so many OPM differentials in the SE is twofold. One, is obviously price. And yes, racers will skimp $300 on a $30,000 car (racers are anything but logical in their purchasing). Second is that you have a lot of "drag race" tracks down here. Rotating mass is a factor when you're at tracks like Road Atlanta, VIR, or Daytona (especially with cars that have very little horsepower), and the lighter weight of the OPM unit may very well make up for the relative lack of performance to other differential types.
While I have a certain amount of respect for the guys in IT, you don't see anything like the OPM differential in any top-level racing. What you do see is a lot of torsen, clutch-pack, and detroit-locker style differentials. I would guess that there is a reason for this (i.e., the design doesn't really work with high-horsepower cars).
One of the problems here is everyone's comparing rather dissimilar cars. Obviously the OPM differentail works quite well in Scott's car and Alex's. But both of them combined have less horsepower and torque than Corey's car. Corey's car is even different from OPM's Prelude, and thus what works on one may not work on the other. In other word's Karl or Scott or Alex saying the the diff is great, while RJ or Corey saying it's crap are probably both correct statements (both subjectively and objectively).
Even more amazingly, I can't sleep and I'm so bored I not only read through all 10 pages of this drek, but I'm also compelled to actually respond!
Unfortunately my data is also subjective. But since I have race wins, track records, and a championship I figure I pass the Schultz-Giles criteria for being a road-race know-it-all
.I've used a variety of differentials (OPM, Quaife, OEM ITR and Mugen). I've only used the OPM diff in low-HP cars (specifically, our old ITC Rabbit), and it was a decent differential. I like the Quaife differential better, as it feels better on turn-in and seems to engage more smoothly. We never had any wheelspin problems with the VW, but it had maybe half the HP and 1/3 the toruqe of an ITR or a Prelude.
I think the reason you see so many OPM differentials in the SE is twofold. One, is obviously price. And yes, racers will skimp $300 on a $30,000 car (racers are anything but logical in their purchasing). Second is that you have a lot of "drag race" tracks down here. Rotating mass is a factor when you're at tracks like Road Atlanta, VIR, or Daytona (especially with cars that have very little horsepower), and the lighter weight of the OPM unit may very well make up for the relative lack of performance to other differential types.
While I have a certain amount of respect for the guys in IT, you don't see anything like the OPM differential in any top-level racing. What you do see is a lot of torsen, clutch-pack, and detroit-locker style differentials. I would guess that there is a reason for this (i.e., the design doesn't really work with high-horsepower cars).
One of the problems here is everyone's comparing rather dissimilar cars. Obviously the OPM differentail works quite well in Scott's car and Alex's. But both of them combined have less horsepower and torque than Corey's car. Corey's car is even different from OPM's Prelude, and thus what works on one may not work on the other. In other word's Karl or Scott or Alex saying the the diff is great, while RJ or Corey saying it's crap are probably both correct statements (both subjectively and objectively).
10-19-2005, 04:18 AM
#283
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Re: This is what going mad must feel like.... (Raceworks)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Raceworks »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Wow, 10 pages and still going. Rougly 5% useful information, 45% speculation, and 50% personal attacks. I think it's got to be some sort of lame thread record!</TD></TR></TABLE>
Unfortunately, no, it's really not.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">One of the problems here is everyone's comparing rather dissimilar cars. Obviously the OPM differentail works quite well in Scott's car and Alex's. But both of them combined have less horsepower and torque than Corey's car.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Hmmmm.... Makes sense.
Unfortunately, no, it's really not.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">One of the problems here is everyone's comparing rather dissimilar cars. Obviously the OPM differentail works quite well in Scott's car and Alex's. But both of them combined have less horsepower and torque than Corey's car.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Hmmmm.... Makes sense.
10-19-2005, 09:24 AM
#285
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Re: LSD's are never as good as a Richmond spool. :thumbup: (Willard)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Willard »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What type of tranny fluid is reccomended with the OPM unit?</TD></TR></TABLE>
No special requirement.
I was using Motul Gear 300.
No special requirement.
I was using Motul Gear 300.
10-19-2005, 09:29 AM
#287
Honda-Tech Member
Re: LSD's are never as good as a Richmond spool. :thumbup: (Catch 22)
I remember asking him what fluid to use and asked if I needed to add any friction modifier (the redline clutch LSD fluid) and he said no, just use normal tranny fluid.
10-19-2005, 09:34 AM
#288
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Richmond spool = :drool:
Simply because it passes the time at work, and I have a sick sense of humor....I will add a little fuel:
A. It is my understanding that this unit has a 'patent' either implyed or stated on the OPM website. In lieu of pictures of the 'proprietary/secret inner workings' of this diff, is it possible to obtain the patent # for said submission? I have searched, and can find no record of such.
maybe im looking in the wrong places.
B. It has also always been my understanding thus far in my automotive career that a 'clutch' type differential must utilize a differential fluid that differs significantly from a standard or gear driven differential. Since the differential in question apparently converts the standard Honda differential to a clutch type, do those of you that use the OPM unit switch to a fluid with the correct friction modifiers coherent with that of a factory type clutch pack differential?
not an attack.....just curious
:edit: i see above that some dont....that makes me wonder just a bit more. Hrmm :edit:
A. It is my understanding that this unit has a 'patent' either implyed or stated on the OPM website. In lieu of pictures of the 'proprietary/secret inner workings' of this diff, is it possible to obtain the patent # for said submission? I have searched, and can find no record of such.
maybe im looking in the wrong places.B. It has also always been my understanding thus far in my automotive career that a 'clutch' type differential must utilize a differential fluid that differs significantly from a standard or gear driven differential. Since the differential in question apparently converts the standard Honda differential to a clutch type, do those of you that use the OPM unit switch to a fluid with the correct friction modifiers coherent with that of a factory type clutch pack differential?
not an attack.....just curious
:edit: i see above that some dont....that makes me wonder just a bit more. Hrmm :edit:
10-19-2005, 11:59 AM
#289
D Tranny Guru
depends on the clutch setup.........
Do motorcycles with a WET clutch use a friction modifier?
The additive just reduces chatter, which allows some slippage for smoother engagement.
Do motorcycles with a WET clutch use a friction modifier?
The additive just reduces chatter, which allows some slippage for smoother engagement.
10-19-2005, 02:07 PM
#290
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Re: OPM LSD
I do not normally post, but this is ridiculous. A lot of the information that has been posted is just wrong. Do people just make up facts so they can post? I thought I would try and clear up some of the really bad info out there. And, why the personal attacks? It is just an LSD we are talking about here.
World Challenge Protege's do run our diffs. Ask Charles E what he had when he finished 4th at Road Atlanta in 2005. And I have receipts from Tindol, we actually backed them down because they locked up too much!! Facts only please. By the way, that's 265 hp. OPM also campaigned Protege's with the OPM LSD. Also, the Protege's of Foo, Baxter, Herr, and so on. FACTS!!!
ARRC, The IT Championships
1 - ITC Championship
3 - ITA Championships
4 - Cars in ITA in the top 10 on the grid in 2005
2005 SARRC Championships - 1st, 2nd, & 4th on the grid ITA.
You're right, they don't work.....
The OPM ITS Honda Prelude at 2900 lbs.!!!
Lowe's - 1:24.8
VIR Long - 2:15.6
Road Atl. - 1:41.7
And no corded front inside tire...weird!
There are lots of great LSD units out there. We have never tried to be a Quaife or Kaaz or a whatever type of diff. They make great units. The OPM unit is intended as a lower cost option or an option to people who do not have the availability of other units. We have always stood behind the unit, and if there is a problem we will rebuild it for free 90% of the time. If you have a question, call me, and I will personally help you.
*If you have not tried one don't bash it.
*If you have, and you aren't happy, I will make it right.
*The unit $675.00, not $1100.00 or $1200.00. It's just an alternative, that for the money, works very well.
*It is also an alternative for people who do not have other options.
P.S. Corey, if your unit sucks as bad as you say, send it back. Don't just keep running it. I've tried to call to work this out, but no response.
10 pages?? You have got o be kidding...
A big THANKS to all of our customers for trying to help others see the light. Your royalty checks are in the mail.
As for the last post by Sam L., it seems like World Challenge "top-level" racing when you all were doing it, and they run our LSD's. Weird....
It's been fun....
Tom Fowler
OPM Autosports
World Challenge Protege's do run our diffs. Ask Charles E what he had when he finished 4th at Road Atlanta in 2005. And I have receipts from Tindol, we actually backed them down because they locked up too much!! Facts only please. By the way, that's 265 hp. OPM also campaigned Protege's with the OPM LSD. Also, the Protege's of Foo, Baxter, Herr, and so on. FACTS!!!
ARRC, The IT Championships
1 - ITC Championship
3 - ITA Championships
4 - Cars in ITA in the top 10 on the grid in 2005
2005 SARRC Championships - 1st, 2nd, & 4th on the grid ITA.
You're right, they don't work.....
The OPM ITS Honda Prelude at 2900 lbs.!!!
Lowe's - 1:24.8
VIR Long - 2:15.6
Road Atl. - 1:41.7
And no corded front inside tire...weird!
There are lots of great LSD units out there. We have never tried to be a Quaife or Kaaz or a whatever type of diff. They make great units. The OPM unit is intended as a lower cost option or an option to people who do not have the availability of other units. We have always stood behind the unit, and if there is a problem we will rebuild it for free 90% of the time. If you have a question, call me, and I will personally help you.
*If you have not tried one don't bash it.
*If you have, and you aren't happy, I will make it right.
*The unit $675.00, not $1100.00 or $1200.00. It's just an alternative, that for the money, works very well.
*It is also an alternative for people who do not have other options.
P.S. Corey, if your unit sucks as bad as you say, send it back. Don't just keep running it. I've tried to call to work this out, but no response.
10 pages?? You have got o be kidding...
A big THANKS to all of our customers for trying to help others see the light. Your royalty checks are in the mail.
As for the last post by Sam L., it seems like World Challenge "top-level" racing when you all were doing it, and they run our LSD's. Weird....
It's been fun....
Tom Fowler
OPM Autosports
10-19-2005, 02:16 PM
#291
Honda-Tech Member
Re: OPM LSD (OPM_Autosports)
you have time to write all that and still not provide pics?
im not dissing anything (i have one you built for louis), i just want pics. i never got to see the inside and dont feel like disassembling my perfectly good working one.
im not dissing anything (i have one you built for louis), i just want pics. i never got to see the inside and dont feel like disassembling my perfectly good working one.
10-19-2005, 02:26 PM
#293
Re: OPM LSD (slammed_93_hatch)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slammed_93_hatch »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so do you make the diff for the sequntial tranny the mazda now run?</TD></TR></TABLE>
proteges do not run a sequential.
proteges do not run a sequential.
10-19-2005, 02:27 PM
#294
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Re: OPM LSD (El Pollo Diablo)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by El Pollo Diablo »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
proteges do not run a sequential.</TD></TR></TABLE>
woops i just saw mazda
proteges do not run a sequential.</TD></TR></TABLE>
woops i just saw mazda
10-19-2005, 03:55 PM
#295
Honda-Tech Member
Re: OPM LSD (Tyson)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tyson »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you have time to write all that and still not provide pics?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Let me be the first to tell you that not only is Tom not a web board guy, he probably (I could be wrong, but I doubt it) doesn't even own a digital camera beyond what's (maybe) on his phone.
He's busy winning races.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by OPM_Autosports »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
ARRC, The IT Championships
1 - ITC Championship
3 - ITA Championships
4 - Cars in ITA in the top 10 on the grid in 2005
2005 SARRC Championships - 1st, 2nd, & 4th on the grid ITA.
You're right, they don't work.....
The OPM ITS Honda Prelude at 2900 lbs.!!!
Lowe's - 1:24.8
VIR Long - 2:15.6
Road Atl. - 1:41.7
And no corded front inside tire...weird!</TD></TR></TABLE>
But Tom, you don't understand. Race results and lap times from people who are actually fast, against people who are ALSO actually fast, don't count. They want technical answers. They want ramp angles.
--Karl, who is dead serious about that Rolex thing...call me sometime...
Let me be the first to tell you that not only is Tom not a web board guy, he probably (I could be wrong, but I doubt it) doesn't even own a digital camera beyond what's (maybe) on his phone.
He's busy winning races.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by OPM_Autosports »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
ARRC, The IT Championships
1 - ITC Championship
3 - ITA Championships
4 - Cars in ITA in the top 10 on the grid in 2005
2005 SARRC Championships - 1st, 2nd, & 4th on the grid ITA.
You're right, they don't work.....
The OPM ITS Honda Prelude at 2900 lbs.!!!
Lowe's - 1:24.8
VIR Long - 2:15.6
Road Atl. - 1:41.7
And no corded front inside tire...weird!</TD></TR></TABLE>
But Tom, you don't understand. Race results and lap times from people who are actually fast, against people who are ALSO actually fast, don't count. They want technical answers. They want ramp angles.
--Karl, who is dead serious about that Rolex thing...call me sometime...
10-19-2005, 04:02 PM
#296
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Re: OPM LSD (krshultz)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by krshultz »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Race results and lap times from people who are actually fast, against people who are ALSO actually fast, don't count. They want technical answers. They want ramp angles.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I dont think anyone said the race results arent important at all. "Inquiring minds want to know" - just because there was some curiosity about the operation of the diff doesnt mean its a personal attack against you, steve, scott, tom, opm, etc.
One other thing is that no one has tried is going from the OPM diff to a kaaz, ats, cusco, etc clutch pack diff and given any kind of subjective/objective feedback so who's to say what is really better/faster?
I dont think anyone said the race results arent important at all. "Inquiring minds want to know" - just because there was some curiosity about the operation of the diff doesnt mean its a personal attack against you, steve, scott, tom, opm, etc.
One other thing is that no one has tried is going from the OPM diff to a kaaz, ats, cusco, etc clutch pack diff and given any kind of subjective/objective feedback so who's to say what is really better/faster?
10-19-2005, 04:07 PM
#297
Honda-Tech Member
Re: OPM LSD (krshultz)
dont make it into a ******* attack karl.
this thread is not taking anything away from OPM success and the success of those who use their products.
so you ALL can STOP DEFENDING OPM and its product(s). and you can stop listing accomplishments and trophies.
WE JUST WANT PICS! because the pics provided thus far show NO DIFFERENCE to the claimed "incomplete" copy of other products.
if you want to take ANYTHING into any sort of "attack" then yes, I'm questioning Tom's word about the description of the part. but only to hope that there is indeed a difference in DESIGN and material compared to a $250 "copy" vs a $650 "real" thing. i want to just take his "word" for it, but at this point, only pics are going to make me believe anything is different.
this thread is not taking anything away from OPM success and the success of those who use their products.
so you ALL can STOP DEFENDING OPM and its product(s). and you can stop listing accomplishments and trophies.
WE JUST WANT PICS! because the pics provided thus far show NO DIFFERENCE to the claimed "incomplete" copy of other products.
if you want to take ANYTHING into any sort of "attack" then yes, I'm questioning Tom's word about the description of the part. but only to hope that there is indeed a difference in DESIGN and material compared to a $250 "copy" vs a $650 "real" thing. i want to just take his "word" for it, but at this point, only pics are going to make me believe anything is different.
10-19-2005, 04:12 PM
#298
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Re: OPM LSD (Tyson)
If you look at the 2nd pic that was posted the clutch pack is the grey piece inbetween the left side gear and the speedo drive.
Blake
Blake
10-19-2005, 04:15 PM
#299
Honda-Tech Member
Re: OPM LSD (bamcrxgp)
yay!!! finally someone (yes i know who blake is) addressing the actual "clutch" material!
is it only on the speedo gear side? is it not needed on the final drive side?
now someone else show me a STOCK diff without that nebulous grey disc inside the diff and ill be satisfied.
pic of CRX diff parts.
so in place of the stock #14 thrust washers, the friction material is added?
jack or willard, was this a OPM installed diff?
so how did it take 10 goddam pages for someone to finally identify the real difference??? we were all concentrating on the wrong thing here?? did no one else really know? really??
Modified by Tyson at 5:31 PM 10/19/2005
is it only on the speedo gear side? is it not needed on the final drive side?
now someone else show me a STOCK diff without that nebulous grey disc inside the diff and ill be satisfied.
pic of CRX diff parts.
so in place of the stock #14 thrust washers, the friction material is added?
jack or willard, was this a OPM installed diff?
so how did it take 10 goddam pages for someone to finally identify the real difference??? we were all concentrating on the wrong thing here?? did no one else really know? really??
Modified by Tyson at 5:31 PM 10/19/2005
10-19-2005, 04:38 PM
#300
Honda-Tech Member
Re: OPM LSD (Tyson)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tyson »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">this thread is not taking anything away from OPM success and the success of those who use their products.
so you ALL can STOP DEFENDING OPM and its product(s). and you can stop listing accomplishments and trophies.
WE JUST WANT PICS!</TD></TR></TABLE>
And there's the disconnect. The guy actually designing the OPM diff doesn't want to be burned...AGAIN...by the guy (or guys) calling it a phantom grip. He's been down this road once before. We see the results...a bunch of guys doing DEs telling him it doesn't work.
I can't say I blame him.
Karl, who will again say, I own two Unites States patents. And no, I won't show any of you the code for either.
so you ALL can STOP DEFENDING OPM and its product(s). and you can stop listing accomplishments and trophies.
WE JUST WANT PICS!</TD></TR></TABLE>
And there's the disconnect. The guy actually designing the OPM diff doesn't want to be burned...AGAIN...by the guy (or guys) calling it a phantom grip. He's been down this road once before. We see the results...a bunch of guys doing DEs telling him it doesn't work.
I can't say I blame him.
Karl, who will again say, I own two Unites States patents. And no, I won't show any of you the code for either.