descartesfool

Some nice info here. I particularly like the concept that you need 10 psi per 1000 RPM of oil pressure under whatever conditions you are running. So at 8500 RPM, you need 85 psi using the lightest weight oil that will get you that at the max temps you run. Easy.

http://ferrarichat.com/forum/faq.php?faq=haas_articles

fsg231

i can tell this thread will go places

meb58

I read this a while back...you can also search Bob the Oil Guy and find lots of information about oil...they are both must reads in my opinion.

If you use the psi notion in the link above and follow your UOA - Used Oil Analysis - you will find the right oil. It's not the same for every car or driving condition. Direct injection gas engines like VW/Audi 2.0 TSI use are brutal on oil especially those driven for short trips. These engines need an oil with very low flash points, high detergent, and high additives. Mobil 1 5W40 TDT is one of the best most basic oils for this application...from there you can move up to Redline, Amsoil...

An oil analysis can tell you a lot about the oil you choose and what your driving environment does to that oil.

Drive 4 fun

Posted in the tech forum couple days ago. Same article plus one.

http://www.boss302.com/oil.htm

[url]http://ferrarichat.com/forum/faq.php?faq=haas_articles#faq_motor_oil_basics

The additional post is also good. I have these in favorites and use them to help think about dino vs synthetic, and viscosity. It would help if we all had well placed oil temperature and pressure sensors, and as noted oil analysis.

Great articles!

Stinkycheezmonky

Huh, very interesting.

alterdcreations

quality is aslo very important. i started using a additive at every oil change.....reguardless of oil it makes a difference

RandomFocus

so basically i should run something thicker then the 5w40 that is in my motor for socal track events

shane(showtime)

iTrader: (1)

Well what are most peaple using for tracking.?

Im still confused on this cause I here all kinds of statements still.

I would like to know soon cause I will be tracking my car in the next couple weeks.

Drive 4 fun

Another good but older article on dino and synthetic, and viscosity. Ed Hackett's "all you wanted to know about oil."

http://micapeak.com/info/oiled.html

Then there is "Bob's the oil guy."

meb58

I used Redline in my track car. But I had an opportunity to play a game during one event a couple of years ago. I simply changed viscosity...the higher viscosity oil - 20W50 - caused the engine to work harder and generate more heat. This was not a scientific evaluation, I used the temp guage and oil pressure guage to evaluate.

solo-x

Not necessarily. What is your oil pressure and oil temp?

nsxtasy

I use the viscosity recommended by Honda for my car - which means 5W30 for the Integras, 10W30 for the NSX. I use name-brand 100 percent synthetic oil, usually Pennzoil Platinum or Mobil 1. Pennzoil occasionally has rebate offers and even without the rebate offers it's cheaper than Mobil 1. Walmart is a great place to buy most oil, because their prices are the best (even better than Sam's Club and Costco) especially since they carry 5-gallon jugs of many oils at a lower per-quart price than quart bottles.

I once tried German-made Castrol 0W30 in the ITR because someone claimed it consumed less oil than Mobil 1 5W30, but that turned out not to be true, based on my experience.

Drive 4 fun

I use synthetic 5w30 or 0w30, depending on the brand and price. The only reason I can see to use thicker is for known low oil pressure, based on the articles. You could probably surmise low pressure if you have full oil and vtec cuts out. I would still check oil level first as it is easy to use some oil on the track and then have trouble in corners. I avoid additives as I figure the companies already use them, and the above articles, though I am not trying to start the additive argument.

descartesfool

Many modern high performance cars specify Mobil 0W40 as factory fill, including most notably Porsche for all its cars, Corvette ZR1, etc. To be "Porsche approved",
http://kiyor32.cocolog-nifty.com/gt3...-List-2006.pdf
oils have to pass this test:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fv53RbvgfGc

and many others:

"This test will last 203 hours. The engine, and the oil, will go through:
- 4 times the simulation of 35 hours of summer driving,
- 4 times the simulation of 13.5 hours of winter driving,
- 40 cold starts,
- 5 times the simulation of 1-hour sessions on the “Nürburgring” racetrack,
- 3.5 hours of “running-in” program
Measurements on the engine and on the oil will be done at regular intervals, and the following parameter will be taken into account to grant the approval or not:
- torque curve (internal friction),
- oxidation of the oil,
- Piston cleanliness and ring sticking,
- Valve train wear protection. Cam & tappet wear must be less than 10 μm.
- Engine cleanliness and sludge: after 203 hours, no deposits must be visible.
- Bearing wear protection: visual rating according to Porsche in-house method."
per http://www.roadrunner-region-pca.org...il_article.pdf

and they have to pass a minimum High Temperature High Shear dynamic viscosity test from Europe called ACEA A3/B3 which usually can only be passed by a 40 weight oil minimum. If you look at the Porsche approved list, there are no oils approved below 40 weight.

"The main physical and chemical requirements for ACEA A3/B3 are shown below:
http://www.acea.be/images/uploads/pu..._LD_and_HD.pdf

Requirement Method Unit Limit
HTHS viscosity CEC L-36-A-90 cP ≥ 3.5
Sulphated Ash ASTM D874 %wt ≤ 1.5
Phosphorus ASTM D5185 %wt Report
Sulphur ASTM D5185 %wt Report
Evaporation loss (NOACK) CEC L-40-A-93 % ≤ 13
Total Base Number ASTM D2896 mgKOH/g ≥ 8.0 "

So since I can't run any oil tests, I go with the "Porsche approved" oils, and as a GT3 is good in my book, and if Mobil 1 0W40 is good for that, it is good for me. Plus it has a high ZDDP content, and it's cheap to buy at Wal-Mart, when they have it.

meb58

Yes, the high additives, high detergent and value make it a great oil. Just be careful when using an oil with a large viscosity spread in direct injection engines...some of the additives are gumming up portions of the intake valves especially if owners follow the rediculously long change intervals - 10K miles.

The best way to know how an oil works in your engine is to follow UOAs performed on an engine like yours and driven like yours.

Otherwise, I too would assume Porsche know what they are doing.

Drive 4 fun

So, Porsche recommends 0w-40 for Porsche, and Honda 5w-30 for Integra, and 0w-20 for some newer vehicles. Perhaps all are correct for their own engines and tolerances. The Dr Hass article would suggest that there is not a correct viscosity or weight, but more related to temperature, pressure, and oil analysis, but Prosche tests may not apply to all.

vinuneuro

Powertrain and lubricant engineers on bobistheoilguy and a PhD level tribologist on ferrarichat have denounced that article for a lot of inaccurate information.

I do agree with with your oil choice and logic though. I only look at ones that are A3/B3 approved on the German manufacturers approved lists, mainly Porsche. Mainly for the HTHS requirement. M1 0W-40 is one of the finest oils in the world and one of the only readily available decent ones available in the North America. If you look at the M1 site, aside from their very expensive race oils, 15W-50 and 0W-40 are the street oils recommended for track use. The 0W-40 is widely available at pretty much every store in NA and is ~$20 for a five gallon jug at Walmart. You can't do better than that.

German Castrol 0W-30 does have a high enough hths visc but it's been since dropped from many of the lists. VOA's have shown the tbn has gone down since a few years ago so it can't do the extended drains it once could that german mfr's require, and maybe high temp performance has gone down too.

A Blue Lude

M1 0-40 is still an API oil though, isn't it?

alterdcreations

what are the toloeances of the engine? porsche engine are built as racing engine with very tight tolerances and are air cooled....porshe isn't known for its engine reliability

those 24 hour of lemans engines will never last two races without a rebuild
not saying mobile 0-40 isn't a good oil...

vinuneuro

Of course it's API approved. It is an SM oil, but the ZDDP limits are really only on GF-4 oils which are the energy conserving grades (20 and 30wt). The fact that it's API approved, widely available and cheap make it all the more fantastic.

Drive 4 fun

How about linking the references you mentioned above that disagree or shed light on the Haas article. This is becoming a good reference thread.

A Blue Lude

What kind of zinc content does it have, then? I've shied away from anything API for a few years now.

vinuneuro

Search bobistheoilguy and there are some on fchat too.

vinuneuro

http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Mot...duct_Guide.pdf

meb58

...thought I included a link to Bobthe oil guy way above...

M1 5W40 TDT is a great oil as well especially in direct injection gas applications.