tsukuba07

does anybody here have experience with JRZ or Moton's personally? i've been browsing Moton's web site and looks like they have more wins than others. a buddy of mine is looking for high end suspension for his civic project car (money no object) so he's looking for the best. are there other ones he should consider?

specifically the higher end stuff have low speed compression/rebound adjustments. what is your experience on the effect of that?

thawley

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tsukuba07 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">specifically the higher end stuff have low speed compression/rebound adjustments. what is your experience on the effect of that?</TD></TR></TABLE>
No direct experience, but I've seen more than one guy get lost with all those adjustments and actually go slower that they did on Koni sports.

If I were getting JRZ or Motons, I'd consider many more test days and the help of a (good) race engineer as a necessary expense of buying them. They are not "set it & forget it" items.

tsukuba07

yes, obviously the owner wants to do lot of track testing... learning about suspension setups by actually playing with it. i've definitely heard that a properly valveed shock such as koni can be as good as Moton/JRZ. but that shock will not be good for every track in theory. a good adjustable shock allows you to fine tune it for each track easily and quickly (assuming one understands how to tune it). supposely the benefit to Moton/JRZ is how quickly and effectively you can make changes.

gabebauman

Since money is NO problem...I'd say go for it.

tsukuba07

well, now we gotta pick one. any others to consider? i seem to recall holland has some other ones... the names escapes me at the moment.

Andrie Hartanto

JRZ and Moton is actually identical. Up to their triple adjustable. Their Quadruple adjustable are a bit different in design.

Moton does a better job in marketing than JRZ. I can help get you JRZ suspension if you are interested.

RedStar101

You might also want to consider Ohlins. If you want some more info on getting them send me a PM.

tsukuba07

could u post information on what ohins are capapble of? i was actually looking at ohlin's site earlier today. we're using this opportunity to learn as much as we could and get hands on experience on setting up shocks. should be fun.

tsukuba07

*slaps forhead* i totally forgot about Penske. since they are usa made, they are even better!!

RedStar101

What type of Honda/Acura are you planning to mount these shocks on?

slammed_93_hatch

he said a civic. i think that you would have to use the application for the DC integra. And you would also have to figure out some type of upper mount system to use

RedStar101

Ohlins makes a set of shocks for DC2/EG6 (with the use of a ITR Rear LCA). The shocks are a dividing piston type shock (no reservoir). That means there is gas and oil in the same body seperated by a solid piston. The shocks are the PCV model which stands for Parallel Compression Valve. The Spring rates if I am not mistaken are a 14k front, 6k rear (Gymkhana Set-Up) with a helper spring underneath but can be easily changed out to your driving style. The shocks are 28 or 32 (not 100% sure on which) way rebound adjustable. Ohlins USA now can get these shocks from Japan so getting parts for them is much easier. If you would like more info, let me know.

dc2vu

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RedStar101 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ohlins makes a set of shocks for DC2/EG6 (with the use of a ITR Rear LCA). The shocks are a dividing piston type shock (no reservoir). That means there is gas and oil in the same body seperated by a solid piston. The shocks are the PCV model which stands for Parallel Compression Valve. The Spring rates if I am not mistaken are a 14k front, 6k rear (Gymkhana Set-Up) with a helper spring underneath but can be easily changed out to your driving style. The shocks are 28 or 32 (not 100% sure on which) way rebound adjustable. Ohlins USA now can get these shocks from Japan so getting parts for them is much easier. If you would like more info, let me know.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I have Ohlins off of a JDM DC2-R and they're amazing. I had to play with springrates a little to get them the way I wanted them, but now they're the best suspension I've ever had on my car. (I drive a 92' CX Hatch)

Our shop actually just became an Ohlins dealer. The first set we've purchased since were a set for a Miata (Ohlins basics). The suspension mod was a night and day difference. The car handles crazy better with the infamous "headshake" gone. It only has 195 series Fuzion ZRI tires on it.

So for Ohlins!

tsukuba07

it is for EF9 (89 Civic Si hatchback) chassis. do you work for Ohlins?

slammed_93_hatch

im going to go out on a limb and a say that those ohlins are far out preformed by the triple adjustable moton and JRZ.

As Andrie mentioned, JRZ and Moton are the same up to the 4 way adjustable. If you go to the JRZ website they have some history about the JRZ and Moton history.

tsukuba07

now, is that based on first hand experience or 2nd hand or 3rd hand and beyond? naturally Ohlins is a top brand and I've had lot of respect for them. we're going to inquire with each one of them to see what they have and how easy it is to work with them...

RedStar101

Yeah, I work for Ohlins when not going to college, not much with the car, I do most of the rebuilds for Motorcycle Shocks. Ohlins is top notch though, I have no experience with JRZ or Moton though, so I don't really know much about that.


Modified by RedStar101 at 10:34 PM 1/20/2007

dc2vu

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tsukuba07 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">now, is that based on first hand experience or 2nd hand or 3rd hand and beyond? naturally Ohlins is a top brand and I've had lot of respect for them. we're going to inquire with each one of them to see what they have and how easy it is to work with them...</TD></TR></TABLE>

We actually have a set thats blown at the shop for your car. Maybe we can work out a deal to have these rebuilt for you. They have RSR springs and are made for the JDM rear lower control arm.

tsukuba07

possibly. can you post some pictures of this Ohlins you have? as many as possible. thanks.

dc2vu

Yes, I can get pics, but keep in mind that they're blown and they need to be rebuilt. Looks like we're sending that EF9 set to Ohlins USA anyways to see what they can do about rebuilds, so I'll try and take some before and after pics. They'll probably be getting sent to RedStar101's company seeing that theres only 1 Ohlins company in the US.

RedStar101

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slammed_93_hatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">im going to go out on a limb and a say that those ohlins are far out preformed by the triple adjustable moton and JRZ.

As Andrie mentioned, JRZ and Moton are the same up to the 4 way adjustable. If you go to the JRZ website they have some history about the JRZ and Moton history.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Also to clear something up Ohlins does offer a 4 way adjustable shock. High and Low Speed Rebound and Compression. They don't make a set for Honda/Acura its for higher end stuff (F1, IRL). Ohlins has been around since 1976 and some of the history of Ohlins racers such as Tony Stewart (2005 Nextel Cup Champion), Bobby Labonte, Sam Hornish Jr, etc. But again, I have no experience with Moton or JRZ though.

slammed_93_hatch

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RedStar101 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Also to clear something up Ohlins does offer a 4 way adjustable shock. High and Low Speed Rebound and Compression. They don't make a set for Honda/Acura its for higher end stuff (F1, IRL). Ohlins has been around since 1976 and some of the history of Ohlins racers such as Tony Stewart (2005 Nextel Cup Champion), Bobby Labonte, Sam Hornish Jr, etc. But again, I have no experience with Moton or JRZ though.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I didn't doubt that they offer the 4 or 3 ways, just that the motons JRZs and penskes 3 ways or 4 ways would out preform the PVC's. And Moton and JRZ along with penske make application for hondas and acuras.

Johnny Mac

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RedStar101 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ohlins makes a set of shocks for DC2/EG6 (with the use of a ITR Rear LCA). The shocks are a dividing piston type shock (no reservoir). That means there is gas and oil in the same body seperated by a solid piston. The shocks are the PCV model which stands for Parallel Compression Valve. The Spring rates if I am not mistaken are a 14k front, 6k rear (Gymkhana Set-Up) with a helper spring underneath but can be easily changed out to your driving style. The shocks are 28 or 32 (not 100% sure on which) way rebound adjustable. Ohlins USA now can get these shocks from Japan so getting parts for them is much easier. If you would like more info, let me know.</TD></TR></TABLE>

First off, Ohlins, JRZ, Moton all make excellent dampers for all types of racing. One notch above are the Penskes. All of these units offer very precise machining of the very highest of quality materials with cutting edge coatings to decrease bearing/seal friction (stiction). The only advantage Penske offers over the others is that they make over 150 different piston designs for varying levels of damping rate profiles. If you want a nice digressive curve they have the piston for it. If you want the high speed damping to come into effect at an earlier point in the damping curve but with the same digression high speed curve, no problem. If you want progressive damping for some reason, they have a piston for that too.

Caveat Emptor! Your buddy better go out and buy a shock dyno or have a very good friend with one so he can fine tune his dampers to what he thinks he may want.

On the other hand, he can just go out and buy a set of Koni 2812's or 2822's and not have to worry about tearing apart the shock to keep changing them. He will get all the benefit from adjustability and precise damping curves and have the ability to change shim stacks to modify the damping curves with these Konis.

Also, helper springs that you mentioned do not change the suspension's action, they are used only to keep the spring end on perches in droop conditions. On the other hand, tender springs actually have a high enough spring rate that changes the suspension's action depending on the tender's rate and length taken together with the main springs length and rates. The tender and main act like a dual rate spring setup as long as the tender and main springs have linear rates. Eibach sells progressive tenders also, but now we're getting off the main subject but you see how many possibilities there are out there to modify suspensions.

di rang

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tsukuba07 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">does anybody here have experience with JRZ or Moton's personally? i've been browsing Moton's web site and looks like they have more wins than others. a buddy of mine is looking for high end suspension for his civic project car (money no object) so he's looking for the best. are there other ones he should consider?

specifically the higher end stuff have low speed compression/rebound adjustments. what is your experience on the effect of that?</TD></TR></TABLE>


what tracks will you be testing?

tsukuba07

Tsukuba hopefully :-)