here's a neat little vid
06-08-2004, 04:20 AM
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06-08-2004, 11:30 AM
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Re: here's a neat little vid (DerangedEG)
What exactly contributes to a car going up on 2 wheels like that? I'm guessing very sticky tires along with high roll resistance and a tall CG? That's some scary stuff.
06-08-2004, 01:16 PM
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Re: here's a neat little vid (Burgh)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Burgh »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What exactly contributes to a car going up on 2 wheels like that? I'm guessing very sticky tires along with high roll resistance and a tall CG? That's some scary stuff. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Most likely it's due to the front suspension hitting the bump stop. When lowered, these Civics have a front roll center that is below ground level, yet the rear roll center is around 7" above ground. That steep roll axis or roll plane is one of the reasons why these cars want to dive down onto the outside front tire so much. When you run out of travel up front, the roll center suddenly shifts from below ground and near the centerline of the car to the outside edge of the outside front tire. This is bad. Of course, sticky tires are also needed to generate enough cornering force.
At that ride height, with stock length components, you'd only have 1-2" of travel. If not already done, I'd definately be looking at lowering the strut in the knuckle, cutting down the bumpstops, raising the upper mount (camber plates), or getting shortened struts. I've been able to get full travel on mine without shortened struts (but with everything else I mentioned). I'm defining full travel as the point when the axle hits the frame - no need for any more travel than that.
-Chris
Most likely it's due to the front suspension hitting the bump stop. When lowered, these Civics have a front roll center that is below ground level, yet the rear roll center is around 7" above ground. That steep roll axis or roll plane is one of the reasons why these cars want to dive down onto the outside front tire so much. When you run out of travel up front, the roll center suddenly shifts from below ground and near the centerline of the car to the outside edge of the outside front tire. This is bad. Of course, sticky tires are also needed to generate enough cornering force.
At that ride height, with stock length components, you'd only have 1-2" of travel. If not already done, I'd definately be looking at lowering the strut in the knuckle, cutting down the bumpstops, raising the upper mount (camber plates), or getting shortened struts. I've been able to get full travel on mine without shortened struts (but with everything else I mentioned). I'm defining full travel as the point when the axle hits the frame - no need for any more travel than that.
-Chris
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06-09-2004, 08:57 AM
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Re: here's a neat little vid (ek4hatch)
I saw the title and wondered if it was him..I was there on Saturday when he did that..I dont think he is hitting the bump stops though, he has his tortion bars set up pretty high actually. I have sent my GS CRX WAY higher without hitting the bump stops..55mph, flat corner (nationals 01) and up it went.
He actually did it in a couple other corners to a lesser degree and I think it has more to do with the tall tires he has on and the fact he is "bouncing" in the corners a little, combine that with the fact the car is set a little high, and the COG is working against him.
I had a talk with him after this about it and suggested he get the car a little lower and try something to stop the bouncing. Not just because he could tip over but I could see he wasn't able to get in the throttle mid corner like he needs to to go fast because the car wasn't stable.
BTW, he took FTD with a 40.6? I ran a 42.4 in the G-Stock car. That was his fastest run.
Jon K
http://www.seat-time.com
He actually did it in a couple other corners to a lesser degree and I think it has more to do with the tall tires he has on and the fact he is "bouncing" in the corners a little, combine that with the fact the car is set a little high, and the COG is working against him.
I had a talk with him after this about it and suggested he get the car a little lower and try something to stop the bouncing. Not just because he could tip over but I could see he wasn't able to get in the throttle mid corner like he needs to to go fast because the car wasn't stable.
BTW, he took FTD with a 40.6? I ran a 42.4 in the G-Stock car. That was his fastest run.
Jon K
http://www.seat-time.com
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