Dontoh

I've read about it a bit, done it a bit, just wonderin what gdd thinks of it?

pros, cons?

anyone do it regulary?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuoZeuSgEj4

edited for ignorance

E-Rok

gee I wonder why?

exz0n-.-

ive never been able to heel-toe cause my feet are too big, but i always rev-match when i downshift.
It also works to brake hard then rev match and downshift really fast, same effect..

Dontoh

lmao, after readin a bit more i understand now, smartass

rclark

the only con is you need to be able to do it well for it to be effective otherwise you'll be over or under braking and defeating the purpose of it.

other than that, almost every professional race driver does it.

DJ Roomba

dont granny shift either and start double clutching!

sCeRaXn

Ive spent a good bit of time on the track and i can honestly say ive hardly ever heel-toed. About the only time ive done it is when im coming in hot to a first gear turn. Other than that ive found that just shifting quickly and acurately gets the job done just fine. Once you learn your motors ideal shift recovery point then youll find the heel-toe method doesnt do any good in most cases.

Dontoh

good info^.. heel toe must be at least a little more easier on the tranny tho, no?

sCeRaXn

Once youve learned how to do it properly then it could be a little easier on the trans. However, learning to do it wont lol

MidShipCivic

It's suppose to be done for every gear, every downshift it doesn't matter was GDD thinks of it it's proven in racing for over 50 years. One characteristic on some vehicles if you don't do ''rev matching'' the differential can lock up and send you sliding off course, because you basically unbalanced the chassis.

And seriously the fcks wrong with you ?: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=heel+toe+downshift

You don't do this for regular everyday driving like coming to a stop light.

Scotty2H

Except that whole wonderful good of being able to shift while braking, rather than doing them independently. You may have spent a good bit of time on the track, but that doesn't mean you're fast on it.

chunty kevin

i tried to be a douchebag and tried this with my wrx on the streets. i'm much happier with my 02 camry now.

sde780

I push in clutch, slide into neutral, let off clutch, blip throttle, push in clutch, downshift, let out clutch., while braking.

I read somewhere it's good for your tranny because it's proper rev matching. If you just push in clutch and blip throttle, then downshift it doesn't do anything good for your syncros. You need to get it into neutral before going to the lower gear. At least that's what I've always read.

rjHella

no homo but your legs must be hella toned.

philafelman

i thought you needed ninja turtle shoes to do the ol' heel/toe.

exz0n-.-

the whole purpose of rev matching is to match rpms from a higher gear to a lower gear, for example if im in 3rd gear going 40, ill rev to about 6k then downshift into 2nd at the same time, while arriving at 4k rpms in second.

What you do is too much for it to actually be doing any good unless you're coming off the freeway or some ****.

Dontoh

yeah, i agree. how would the differential lock up and unbalance the chassis?

and is that "seriously the fcks wrong with you ?" directed to me?

sCeRaXn

There isnt always a need to shift while braking. Its impossible to heel-toe on every turn unless that the only driving technique you plan on using. Heel-toe shifting shifting while trail braking into a off camber sweeper will do nothing except shift the weight to where you dont want it to be, on the outside of the car instead of the front(which is the main reason you trail brake). Also, how exactly would you heel-toe while using techniques like left foot braking? Im not saying that heel-toe doesnt have its place in racing, but its not the only driving technique youll need, and it cant be done in certain situations.

A lot of it has to do with the cars setup as well. Gearing, balance, and available traction have a lot to do with the need for heel-toe shifting. If the car is decelerating at the same rate as the engine(ie in the open gear) then picking the proper shift point will do basically the same thing as heel-toe shifting. If you arent at the absolute edge of the available traction, then this wont negatively affect anything.

Ive never claimed to be the fastest driver, but ive been able to hold my own. There is a point while racing, mainly at the pro level, where heel-toe shifting is a necessary skill. However, for your average driver who is just doing HPDE's wont see a huge advantage in it. I didnt do it much at the Bondurant race school because my instructor didnt think it was always needed. He would tell me to heel-toe(actually hed just say "roll it" because of how they taught us) when it was necessary. At the level we were working with he said that it took away from the more important things like concentrating on proper entry and exit speed and hitting the apex. Ive taken his word on it all this time, but if you feel like you should do it on every downshift then by all means go for it. It wont hurt anything, and once perfected it will come in extremely handy. I guess i just havent reached the point where its necessary to get every last bit out of the car.

btw-Mike Speck was my instructor at Bondurant. The dude is a freaking amazing driver and has a whole wealth of knowledge trapped inside that big melon of his. I also spent a little in car time with Peter Miller at another event

MidShipCivic

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7w64fbqYQY

@ OP

ravinaziankid

If you practice heel-toe, it's almost like second nature..you will be able to do it easily and quickly, just have to determine how much brake or throttle is needed to neutralize the rpm.

sCeRaXn

Certian types of difs can lock up because of the shock to the drivetrain from releasing the clutch at too low of an rpm. This is one of those cases where heel-toe shifting is extremely necessary and goes back to what i was saying about it depending on the cars setup. Not all difs will do this though.

MidShipCivic

Nyeh another one of those self conscious what does GDD thinks jump offs

I'll try to add to Sceraxin post and clear it up a bit because you lack the basics OP.
In a turn the outside wheel spins faster than the inside wheel if you don't rev match the engine will be forced to rev up to the current wheel speed that triggers the :lock up: of an LSD that works under power or a 1.5 way.

RynoDyno312

My pedals are too far apart.

slomofo

iTrader: (1)

To simplify things, I switched to an automatic. Normally a switch like this would decrease acceleration speeds, but then I just upgraded my car to the more powerful Yaris platform. I couldn't be happier, this thing does all the heel-toe or whatever you call it shifting for me and the exterior is a real panty dropper, so it's like a win win all around.

Dontoh

rough, makes more sense though. i'm just tryna learn