hondaapi

Does somebody have experiences with dog boxes on a Honda (specially B-series) that is used on circuit racing?

I ask because I demaged two tranny this season and have a lot of synchro problems.

The car is a 440hp turbocharged B18C6 and is only used on the circuit track and never sees public road.

I´m thinking about trying a Gear-X Dog Box but before I would like to get some input.

Or any other ideas/suggestions for a strong tranny?

dirty19

iTrader: (1)

Kiwi would be the one to contact about dogboxes.
http://www.specialprojectsms.com/gear-x/dog-boxes.html

Jesus thats alot of money for a tranny, but if your blowing through them at an alarming rate I guess the cost is justified?
I dont know if i would willingly buy one at that price
Maybe if one was dropped on the side of the road and i scooped it up?

hondaapi

Yes, I know that the Dog Boxes are expansive but I hope they are strong.
And yes I plan to purchase it from Kiwi because I purchased several other items from him and I´m happy with the quality of the parts.

The car where I want the tranny for can run full circuit racing slicks (240-610 Advan) and so I believe it will cause a lot of abuse to the tranny.

Does somebody have experiences with these kinds of trannys?

VTECIntegra9

My dad runs a custom box in his triumph. The fella (and good friend) who built this transmission, primarily works on Hondas and does road racing himself. He would be the best person in north america on the subject from my experience.

Name is Jamie Houseman

http://www.housemanautosport.com/

Nothing against Kiwi, but this is a racing transmission specialist (and his wife makes the fiberglass bodywork!) and is great to work with.

He has built dog boxes for drag and road racing and can put together any custom gearset if needed.

Give him a call and/or an email and at least see if he can meet your needs even just to compare to the Gear-X option.

Oh and let him know Ryan Kristoff referred you :-)

Gustav129

I personally haven't used Houseman, but he was the first to come to mind when I saw the thread. A lot of people on Red Pepper Racing have talked about him. I know many people have gotten the Mugen reproduction body kit for 1g CRX's from him. I believe he also makes custom gear sets for transmissions too.

Gustav129

Although, I do see you are in Germany. The shipping would be enormous. There's gotta be somebody there locally.

Everybody knows German engineering is the best [/sarcasm]

powerneedy

Im in for some info also on this.

FerreiraCompetitions

Pretty much every pro race car runs a dogbox of some kind, so of course there's no problem with a dogbox. Its all benefits from a reliability standpoint, quicker shifts, less power robbing, and the ability to clutchless shift. Cant go wrong. Especially the ones sold by Kiwi. Those are group N kits and are used in Europe in both touring car and rally with FIA homologated ratios.

You really couldnt be picking a better part for the job. Shipping will be cheap, the gearkits are not heavy. Nothing to worry about.

Gustav129

If Kiwi's kits are already in Europe, then that's the way to go...

hondaapi

I know that lot of race cars rund Dog Boxes. I had the chance to work on a Porsche GT3 Cup which participates in the Mobile1 Cup and I know how lound they are.
Unfortunatly I´m not allowed to run that car because it costs 275.000USD :-)

But I never had the chance to talk to someone who has used it in a Honda for circuit racing.

I know nobody here in Germany who sells his kits ... but we work together with him.

Has somebody experiences with Kiwi´s Dog Boxes ?

On his site I could only find one ratio but different FinalDrive options. Does somebody know if there are more options?

vinuneuro

Albins has Honda B series covered very well. Probably can't go wrong with Kiwi's box too. User extralargenog here is a good one to talk to about this also.

http://www.albinsgear.com.au/productcatalogue.pdf

powerneedy

I knew that dog boxes are widely used in motorsports I was more referring to is kiwis going to hold up? Also Kiwis will still use a H pattern and you will have to figure out the tuning side of it which is am sure possible. I worry about will our stock case hold up to the power abuse... I mean look at the drag guys they "handcuff" the 2 shafts so they don't destroy the gears and case... By all mean if I could run kiwis setup and spend half I'm down for sure. I am after any incite, maybe vinuneuro you could point extralargenog to this thread?

Lo-Buck EF

Liberty will put a dog on a stock gear for like $400.

cluelessmale

iTrader: (1)

I rather have a cat it would per better

kungfuSiR

iTrader: (1)

With the dogbox is it just clutchless upshifts or do you also get the same for downshifts?

To me it would seem kind of weird to still have an "H" pattern but not have to clutch for either. What's the longevity like on one of these vs a normal transmission?

FerreiraCompetitions

The gearset itself comes "stacked" with the preset ratios for the B series box, I believe those are the FIA homologated ratios, but then you have the choice of a final drive so that you can match it to your specific application.

Longevity depends on the user. Dogbox NEEDS to be shifted quick to prevent dog damage. Also some dogboxes have a better design than others. Less dogs will allow for a wider gate to shift into and consequently better shifts. A syncro box will last longer with slower shifts. Then of course you have the materials and the kind of heat treat used in the manufacturing process. The good thing about the dogbox Kiwi has is that it has a 5 dog design. So it will shift better with less chances of chipping. In the old days when I worked for Peugeot as a driveline engineer, we had Hewland boxes that come with 8 dogs and we used to machine down 4 of the 8 dogs to allow for a quicker and more positive shift. Most dog boxes are 5, 6 or 8 dogs.

As for the clutchless shifts, its up and down, blip to the downshifts, quick throtle off for the upshifts.

Whats the problem with using an H pattern? We're not talking about sequential gearboxes, so I'm not sure what the tunning comment is refering to. Sir, you are right on the fact that drag racers destroy a lot of equipement, the "handcuff" bearing brace is great for when its a very high power application, and specially with helical gears. Helical gears under torque have a natural tendency to "spread" them selves appart. So that pushes the input shaft away from the output shaft, pushing the contact surface towards the tip of tooth hence why it will start chipping and destroying itself to bits. Straight cut gears dont have that problem so it can cope with the power a lot better.


If people are interested I can post an old technical overview on gear changing with a dogbox written by William Hewland, president of Hewland transmissions.

powerneedy

The tuning comment I made is I thought to help preserve the box that it is wise to have a strain gauge of some sort to pull timing and what not to help it shift??? I only know the little info I have found and read haha.

I appreciate you chiming in and if you could please post that up I'm interested. I am looking for some options as far as any thing tougher than oem as its not holding up to the power and I haven't even turned it up yet lol.

the carnage I found last night...

FlewByU352

This is the loudest straight cut gearbox I have ever heard!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmJH84FnQa8

powerneedy

^^^ that is also sequential. but ya that thing is screaming

Found this kit also? I know nothing about it just putting options up.

http://www.ericksracing.com/ProductD...ode=PAR-DOG-BX

and http://www.cpboost.com/Honda-B-Serie...cbghndbsde.htm

hondaapi

@powerneedy, here is how my tranny locks now ... ;-)

I had contact with Kiwi about this topic and it seems to be very interesting.

A very important thing is the customer service. Specially if you got a technical problem or if you need some replacement parts.
What I could read Gear-X seems to be my number one.

The other brand seem to be more into DragRacing and mostly offer only 1-4 gears.
When you can get an additional 5th gear, all seem to be in the same price range.

So I would say the experience in circuit racing and the customer service seems to be the thing that lead me to my decision.

Pompiuses

How much power are you guys putting down?

powerneedy

I felt like not enough but apparently to much LOL

Have not had it on a dyno but 350~ we have been chasing other issues before we turned it up, well we figured it all out and were ready to turn it up and this happened

vinuneuro

Have you thought about just switching to aftermarket helical gears? Gear-X and Mfactory both have options in various ratios for B and that will be a lot cheaper than dog gears. Mfactory says their roadrace gears are good for 500whp. What trans fluid are you using?

powerneedy

I was running redline... But I will most likely go to the torco rtf. The thing that is most appealing about the gear x straight cut dog box is the syncro issue is gone. The part that I look at is by the time you setup the tranny with the FD, Both shafts, and a good set of syncros and springs your 3000-4000 bucks depending on what hp rating you go with. The power level on this car will push the 450~500 mark when we turn it up so I dont want to destroy a new gear set lol

kungfuSiR

iTrader: (1)

I'm surprised you're having issues with shaving gears at 350~whp. We're running 330WHP for two seasons now without any issues. I've generally stayed away from redline stuff I find it to be very hard on the synchros.

Most guys don't start cracking cases/shaving gears until at least 500whp so I'm definitely surprised you're seeing this already at your power level.