Mayhem_J30

Looking to install a swirl pot into our 94 Accord. Will be running an inline bosch 044 high pressure pump after the pot, but looking replace the stock in tank pump with a low pressure pump option of some sort. Anybody have any ideas if there is anything out there that will neatly replace the OEM pump?

Haven't decided yet to wire extra pump in parallel with the in tank pump or just run a separate 12v feed to it on a toggle switch.

MR.johnson

first thing, what is a swirl pot? sump?

Mayhem_J30

Main purpose is to prevent fuel starvation on long sweepers. Secondary is to provide additional fuel capacity.

ReDemoN

So a sump?

Mayhem_J30

If by sump you mean replacing the current pickup with one in the lowest location of the tank (bottom/rear) then no, but maybe some part of the application is the same. Could be semantics but sump seems slightly different than swirl pot/surge tank. This system has 2 pumps, in tank and one inline post pot. Here's a generic flow chart of the system in mind. Basically looking for an in tank option for the "low pressure" pump in the chart.

01DC4

iTrader: (3)

Use the stock pump to feed the surge tank.

Mayhem_J30

That very well may be what we do. The choice to go low pressure was because I had "heard" that high pressure pumps die quickly when ran dry and I fully expect this pump (stock in tank) to go dry several times.

Current regulations prevent me from making a worthwhile fuel cell swap, but a 1.5 gal surge tank fits the bill. Perfect for a few extra laps in an endurance race.

Greyout

I always thought the OEM tank & pump was baffled very well.... is fuel starvation really a common issue?

johnjw

I think capacity/run time is the goal here

Mayhem_J30

I haven't dropped the tank yet, still in build phase, but if Honda's in general rarely suffer from fuel starvation that would be welcome news. However like johnjw said, increased capacity is also a goal along with not burning up pumps.

After some brainstorming last night my first stab at this is going to be to use a pump from an older carbed motor, think 76 Chevy Vega or almost anything pre-87 really. (and they're are dirt cheap) Those were all low psi pumps. I'll hack it somehow to fit the OEM pump hangar system.

Silly that Honda didn't include a fuel pump access panel in the car. Will have to drop the tank or cut a hole, not something I'm likely to do in the general area of a fuel tank.

Zubaltec

iTrader: (1)

How about this one.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/abt-cfd-106/overview/

Mayhem_J30

$144 !

Thanks for the research. I did find that pump last night and that's what got me started looking at old carbed motor pumps. They do the same thing ~5psi.

Ev

Use some mechanics wire to attach a soup can with some holes in it around the pickup in the tank.
Direct the fuel return into the can.
Profit.

Mayhem_J30

Now that's good ol' boy chumpy engineering right there. Might actually do this in my E30 track car. They are seriously prone to starvation during right hand sweepers.

Ev

It's really just a poor mans surge tank. They make them for fuel cells, but they cost around $100.

Just make sure to rinse out the bean residue before you install

MAD_MIKE

Wouldn't it be best to return the fuel directly to the main tank?

It would prevent any of the, most likely higher pressure, fuel from backfeeding through the low psi pump. Granted there's the overflow/return line but if that's already at capacity would there be a chance of other fueling issues, such as pressure spikes. If the fuel cannot return to the main tank fast enough it doesn't matter what the FPR is doing.

And what about hot fuel returning to the smaller swirl pot? Being such a small capacity I could see the heat soaked fuel returning from the engine bay heating up the 'fresh' cooler fuel from the main tank. This would also add pressure as the heated fuel will expand and vaporize.

Granted a hotter fuel will be easier to burn, and might even add some laps by being able to run a bit leaner. But this would require a bit of testing and data acquisition.

I would opt for either a direct return line to the main tank from the engine, or do as above but have a T to return to the main tank and swirl.

Have you thought of using foam in the stock tank to prevent fuel slosh? Although with a stock type float level sender you would lose its ability to work due to the foam.

Tim2179

iTrader: (2)

Is that legal in chump with a stock fuel tank?

topdog

iTrader: (1)

Last time I read the rules it was " as long as it was +/- 2 gallon max from OEM tank"

Tim2179

iTrader: (2)

You'll probably be ok, but I interpret the rules below to mean - OEM tank, no mods, OR Fuel Cell with max +2 gallons of OEM size, surge tank "ok" w/Fuel Cell if needed to get up to 2 extra gallons of OEM size. But after reading it again, I suppose you are using the stock tank...So yea, doesn't seem like it would be illegal to me now.

I doubt that any chump tech would bother to check really... unless you win!

Good luck!