BTCC cars, old and current, any one have any info on them?
11-30-2005, 12:31 AM
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BTCC cars, old and current, any one have any info on them?
i was browsing and come across some pictures of an old BTCC accord, i read the modification list, and was pretty impressed with all the stuff then i saw a picture of the enigne bay.
pretty crazy...
I did some searching on google, found the BTCC website, but it didn't have very much info. any one know of a good site, or know information about the hondas that ran or run in th series
pretty crazy...
I did some searching on google, found the BTCC website, but it didn't have very much info. any one know of a good site, or know information about the hondas that ran or run in th series
11-30-2005, 01:40 AM
#2
ok, how the ef did they do the reversed head and still keep the timing on the left hand side of the engine? i'm sure its reather simple involves cams etc...but its also 2 am and i ant really thinkg i'm so tired
11-30-2005, 04:49 AM
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Re: BTCC cars, old and current, any one have any info on them? (slammed_93_hatch)
Those cars were wicked fast but costs went balistic and killed the series. I followed the Super Touring cars from about 95 to 99. My cousing would tape the races and send them to me from the UK.
I think the highest the Euro Accords ever finished was 4th in the Championship (96?). They were driven by some notable racers (Leslie, Tarquini, Thomspon...). At one point in the series in the late 90's the cars were costing something like $500-$600,000 each. The trannys were 25K alone.
The Honda was too heavy to win on a frequent basis. The all wheel drive Audi's won in 96, then the Renault hatches dominated for a while until the series died.
I got a passenger ride in one of the current series cars (Vauxhaul Coupe) at Silverstone back in 02 and was damn impressed. Those cars are about a 2-3 seconds per lap slower than the Super Tourers. I can only imagine what the older cars felt like.
Those were the heydays of BTCC. Today's cars are much more "street" oriented.
You can get the BTCC Year In Review from Duke Video or on Ebay. Some great racing in those videos.
Regards,
Jon
I think the highest the Euro Accords ever finished was 4th in the Championship (96?). They were driven by some notable racers (Leslie, Tarquini, Thomspon...). At one point in the series in the late 90's the cars were costing something like $500-$600,000 each. The trannys were 25K alone.
The Honda was too heavy to win on a frequent basis. The all wheel drive Audi's won in 96, then the Renault hatches dominated for a while until the series died.
I got a passenger ride in one of the current series cars (Vauxhaul Coupe) at Silverstone back in 02 and was damn impressed. Those cars are about a 2-3 seconds per lap slower than the Super Tourers. I can only imagine what the older cars felt like.
Those were the heydays of BTCC. Today's cars are much more "street" oriented.
You can get the BTCC Year In Review from Duke Video or on Ebay. Some great racing in those videos.
Regards,
Jon
11-30-2005, 06:23 AM
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Re: BTCC cars, old and current, any one have any info on them? (slammed_93_hatch)
The early to mid '90's saw some terrific close hard fought racing. At the peak of the series, there were 10-12 manufacturers and a few privateers (Matt Neal of Team Dynamics jumps to mind). Then splitters and rear wings ended up getting bigger and more efficient leading to less nose to tail through the corners racing. That coupled with the ever increasing costs of the cars caused a near collapsed of the series in the late '90's.
What you see now is an attempt to get back to a basic rule set that promotes competitive racing over wind tunnel developments.
If you can get your hands on some of the old videos, do so. You won't be let down by the action.
Check this out for more info. http://www.supertouring.co.uk/....html
Rick
What you see now is an attempt to get back to a basic rule set that promotes competitive racing over wind tunnel developments.
If you can get your hands on some of the old videos, do so. You won't be let down by the action.
Check this out for more info. http://www.supertouring.co.uk/....html
Rick
11-30-2005, 07:09 AM
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Re: BTCC cars, old and current, any one have any info on them? (turfer)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Those cars were wicked fast but costs went balistic and killed the series.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Money says a late 90s BTCC car would whip a late 90s NASCARs *** on a road course. Perhaps not at the Glen, but certainly on the twisties of Infineon. Those things were just STUPID quick.
Money says a late 90s BTCC car would whip a late 90s NASCARs *** on a road course. Perhaps not at the Glen, but certainly on the twisties of Infineon. Those things were just STUPID quick.
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11-30-2005, 07:11 AM
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Re: BTCC cars, old and current, any one have any info on them? (turfer)
I lived in the UK during the BTCC heyday in the mid to late 90s. They were very, very impressive. The engines were moved so far back as to be almost under the firewall so that the driveshafts went along the front of the engine.
The accords used a destroked H series engine with the cylinder head flipped around. I have seen a head out of a car and it actually was not that much work by the looks - a little welding around the front. I have photos somewhere.
Racing the cars were rumoured to pull 1.8 to 2.0 G cornering. Suspension was the key.
The accords used a destroked H series engine with the cylinder head flipped around. I have seen a head out of a car and it actually was not that much work by the looks - a little welding around the front. I have photos somewhere.
Racing the cars were rumoured to pull 1.8 to 2.0 G cornering. Suspension was the key.
11-30-2005, 07:17 AM
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Re: BTCC cars, old and current, any one have any info on them? (dbraithway)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dbraithway »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> I have photos somewhere.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Don't tease us...post em
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Don't tease us...post em
11-30-2005, 07:38 AM
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Re: BTCC cars, old and current, any one have any info on them? (essex)
I used to follow it on "Speedvision". There was a really good site for photos, but it's closed now, but.. there's still a good photo gallery.
http://www.redshoes-racing.com/
http://www.redshoes-racing.com/
11-30-2005, 07:53 AM
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Re: BTCC cars, old and current, any one have any info on them? (FLATOUTRACING)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by FLATOUTRACING »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The all wheel drive Audi's won in 96, then the Renault hatches dominated for a while until the series died.</TD></TR></TABLE>
You forgot some wins from other manufacturers in between. I don't remember what year was won by what manufacturer. I think I started following the series the year after Winkelhock (sp??) won in the BMW. After him, I believe Tarquini won in the Alfa, then Biela in the Audi. Between the Audi and when the series died, there were (the order might be wrong) Cleland in the Vaxhaul, Menu in the Renault, Rydell in the Volvo, Menu in the Ford, and a Nissan (forgot the driver's name).
You forgot some wins from other manufacturers in between. I don't remember what year was won by what manufacturer. I think I started following the series the year after Winkelhock (sp??) won in the BMW. After him, I believe Tarquini won in the Alfa, then Biela in the Audi. Between the Audi and when the series died, there were (the order might be wrong) Cleland in the Vaxhaul, Menu in the Renault, Rydell in the Volvo, Menu in the Ford, and a Nissan (forgot the driver's name).
11-30-2005, 08:08 AM
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Re: BTCC cars, old and current, any one have any info on them? (vwong)
Volvo won it after the Renaults, then it was Nissan and Ford (Menu).
I watched the BTCC primarily in the early to mid 90's when BMW, ALFA and Audi won their titles.
I have two BTCC tapes with about 90 minutes on each with nothing by in car video and Murray Walker doing the announcing.
Those were the good old days
I watched the BTCC primarily in the early to mid 90's when BMW, ALFA and Audi won their titles.
I have two BTCC tapes with about 90 minutes on each with nothing by in car video and Murray Walker doing the announcing.
Those were the good old days
11-30-2005, 10:01 AM
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Re: BTCC cars, old and current, any one have any info on them? (FLATOUTRACING)
thanks for all the info guys, i already checked out redshoes. Its easy to find pictures of the cars, but can't find any real hard info on them. To me it looks like they were modified beyond beleif.
about todays cars, seems like they still make some pretty crazy high hp, i have heard that the k series hondas put down 300whp or so, any one know if there is truth to this?
about todays cars, seems like they still make some pretty crazy high hp, i have heard that the k series hondas put down 300whp or so, any one know if there is truth to this?
11-30-2005, 10:31 AM
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Re: BTCC cars, old and current, any one have any info on them? (slammed_93_hatch)
When we were running in the old Canada GT Challenge Cup, a guy had a Williams Renault Laguna, I spent a couple hours talking to the guy, looking at the car one race weekend. I believe it was an Alan Menu car.
He bought it fairly cheap, with some mold/spares. Engines were from a company in France, about 300hp, lasted a season for him, sent back to France for a rebuild. NOT cheap.
The rear suspension made my head hurt, badly. Complex was an understatement, big time. It had to be based off a twist beam, but they had 2 separate suspensions, joined in the middle with a spherical bearing of some kind. The rear shock were at this crazy angle, top forward, it was mad I tell you.
You could really see that there was a massive amount of engineering in it, was impressive.
However, it wasn't that fast. He was trying to run with 700+ hp GT1 cars of all types, the series was kind of an unlimited GT series, filled with Trans-Am cars with huge motors and 800hp, GT1-EVO Lemans 911's, 800hp Ultima GTR's, etc. Trying to chase these guys up the back straight at Mosport was not working for him. He did well in the rain though.
He bought it fairly cheap, with some mold/spares. Engines were from a company in France, about 300hp, lasted a season for him, sent back to France for a rebuild. NOT cheap.
The rear suspension made my head hurt, badly. Complex was an understatement, big time. It had to be based off a twist beam, but they had 2 separate suspensions, joined in the middle with a spherical bearing of some kind. The rear shock were at this crazy angle, top forward, it was mad I tell you.
You could really see that there was a massive amount of engineering in it, was impressive.
However, it wasn't that fast. He was trying to run with 700+ hp GT1 cars of all types, the series was kind of an unlimited GT series, filled with Trans-Am cars with huge motors and 800hp, GT1-EVO Lemans 911's, 800hp Ultima GTR's, etc. Trying to chase these guys up the back straight at Mosport was not working for him. He did well in the rain though.
11-30-2005, 10:45 AM
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Re: BTCC cars, old and current, any one have any info on them? (pmachan)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by pmachan »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The rear suspension made my head hurt, badly.</TD></TR></TABLE>
IIRC, the rule regarding suspension was that they had to retain factory attachment points... hence the hypercomplicated multi-link setups crammed in place of twist beams. Pretty inventive stuff.
IIRC, the rule regarding suspension was that they had to retain factory attachment points... hence the hypercomplicated multi-link setups crammed in place of twist beams. Pretty inventive stuff.
11-30-2005, 11:09 AM
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I sat in Nigel smith's Vauxhall Cavalier at Mid-Ohio the year they ran Super Touring over here. I've still got and watch the 94 and 95 BTCC season reveiws. Awesome racing, too bad it didn't last.
ps I really want to drive Knockhill now....
ps I really want to drive Knockhill now....
11-30-2005, 12:45 PM
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Re: BTCC cars, old and current, any one have any info on them? (pmachan)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by pmachan »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Engines were from a company in France, about 300hp, lasted a season for him, sent back to France for a rebuild. NOT cheap.
.......
However, it wasn't that fast. He was trying to run with 700+ hp GT1 cars of all types, the series was kind of an unlimited GT series, filled with Trans-Am cars with huge motors and 800hp, GT1-EVO Lemans 911's, 800hp Ultima GTR's, etc. Trying to chase these guys up the back straight at Mosport was not working for him. He did well in the rain though.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Looking at the hp numbers, of course he wasn't fast.
.......
However, it wasn't that fast. He was trying to run with 700+ hp GT1 cars of all types, the series was kind of an unlimited GT series, filled with Trans-Am cars with huge motors and 800hp, GT1-EVO Lemans 911's, 800hp Ultima GTR's, etc. Trying to chase these guys up the back straight at Mosport was not working for him. He did well in the rain though.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Looking at the hp numbers, of course he wasn't fast.
11-30-2005, 01:31 PM
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Re: BTCC cars, old and current, any one have any info on them? (vwong)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vwong »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Looking at the hp numbers, of course he wasn't fast. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I know, but thats the series he had to run in, it was a kind of unlimited thing, it was hard to run it anywhere else. I guess people did kinda expect it to be a bit faster than it was though. I liked it, you could barely see the guy in the car as it went by, so low and so far back!
Looking at the hp numbers, of course he wasn't fast.
</TD></TR></TABLE>I know, but thats the series he had to run in, it was a kind of unlimited thing, it was hard to run it anywhere else. I guess people did kinda expect it to be a bit faster than it was though. I liked it, you could barely see the guy in the car as it went by, so low and so far back!
11-30-2005, 02:28 PM
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Re: BTCC cars, old and current, any one have any info on them? (pmachan)
^^^ So did you take pictures of his suspension when you were there? I'm interested in how they built the suspension.
11-30-2005, 03:05 PM
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Re: BTCC cars, old and current, any one have any info on them? (vwong)
The engines were 2 litre, with a maximun of 8500 RPM, done with a series mandated rev-limiter.
11-30-2005, 03:07 PM
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Re: BTCC cars, old and current, any one have any info on them? (vwong)
Don't forget that some of those cars ran here in the States with the North American Touring Car Championship. Randy Pobst, PD Cunningham and others ran them. I was told they were making 300 horsepower from 2.0 liters. They weren't cheap to run, either.
11-30-2005, 03:16 PM
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Re: BTCC cars, old and current, any one have any info on them? (David S. Wallens)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by David S. Wallens »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Don't forget that some of those cars ran here in the States with the North American Touring Car Championship. Randy Pobst, PD Cunningham and others ran them. I was told they were making 300 horsepower from 2.0 liters. They weren't cheap to run, either.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Some of the production cars were brought over too, from what i can tell they had much stricter rules about what could be done. IIRC tom lepper has one.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vwong »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">^^^ So did you take pictures of his suspension when you were there? I'm interested in how they built the suspension.</TD></TR></TABLE>
ya i would really be interesed in seeing some pictures of these suspensions
Some of the production cars were brought over too, from what i can tell they had much stricter rules about what could be done. IIRC tom lepper has one.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vwong »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">^^^ So did you take pictures of his suspension when you were there? I'm interested in how they built the suspension.</TD></TR></TABLE>
ya i would really be interesed in seeing some pictures of these suspensions
11-30-2005, 03:45 PM
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Re: BTCC cars, old and current, any one have any info on them? (vwong)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vwong »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">^^^ So did you take pictures of his suspension when you were there? I'm interested in how they built the suspension.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I wish I did, but sadly I don't.
It was Bizare, I'll say that.
I wish I did, but sadly I don't.
It was Bizare, I'll say that.
11-30-2005, 03:46 PM
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Re: BTCC cars, old and current, any one have any info on them? (slammed_93_hatch)
a good source of super tourer regs is here http://www.supertouring.co.uk/techreg1.html
i've been a fan of the touring cars since abdy rouse's sierra cosworths used to reign supreme
i've been a fan of the touring cars since abdy rouse's sierra cosworths used to reign supreme
11-30-2005, 04:04 PM
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Re: BTCC cars, old and current, any one have any info on them? (pmachan)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by pmachan »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
The rear suspension made my head hurt, badly. Complex was an understatement, big time. It had to be based off a twist beam, but they had 2 separate suspensions, joined in the middle with a spherical bearing of some kind. The rear shock were at this crazy angle, top forward, it was mad I tell you.
You could really see that there was a massive amount of engineering in it, was impressive. </TD></TR></TABLE>
This would kinda' explain how most of the BTCC cars were equipped with those huge 19 in. wheels, in which a good portion of them would disappear into the wheel wells. I always wondered how they could steer with the supension set up that way. I would imagine it the steering travel wasn't very far from lock to lock?
The rear suspension made my head hurt, badly. Complex was an understatement, big time. It had to be based off a twist beam, but they had 2 separate suspensions, joined in the middle with a spherical bearing of some kind. The rear shock were at this crazy angle, top forward, it was mad I tell you.
You could really see that there was a massive amount of engineering in it, was impressive. </TD></TR></TABLE>
This would kinda' explain how most of the BTCC cars were equipped with those huge 19 in. wheels, in which a good portion of them would disappear into the wheel wells. I always wondered how they could steer with the supension set up that way. I would imagine it the steering travel wasn't very far from lock to lock?