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Well I just blew up my b18c1. I made 312whp on a stock gsr setup. Zero compression in cylinder 4 today. I think I saw it coming. After pulling the head (which looks ok) and inspecting the walls, it seems my piston decided to smear itself on the wall and deform. There doesn't seem to be any grooves so I think I can hone it out.
I also want to start autocrossing and maybe hit up road America one of these summers so I was debating going NA. Now there is nothing wrong with a turbo civic or any turbo car participating in these events but with a ramhorn manifold and no accessories, I felt like the turbo setup produced a lot of heat so I am debating between going f2b or going forged internals and boosting on.
I've already considered the cost of both alternatives, just need some opinions.
Heat management has always scared me away from forced induction for track so I don't have any experience with it. Most of the well built autocross cars with forced induction seem to be fine since there is time to cool between runs.
Seat time is key when it comes to track driving so I would prioritize reliability over horsepower.
Heat management has always scared me away from forced induction for track so I don't have any experience with it. Most of the well built autocross cars with forced induction seem to be fine since there is time to cool between runs.
Seat time is key when it comes to track driving so I would prioritize reliability over horsepower.
SO much this! If you dont know how to drive a sock car at the limit then a turbo or high compression NA will kick your ***. Sticky tires and decent suspension are always better than too much power!
I have a decent suspension setup. Tokico illuninas, 500lb/in rear progress coilovers and ground control 330lb/in fronts. 21mm rear sway bar, subframe brace, nothing up front. Mini Cooper front rotors and legend calipers, ep3 rear brake setup.
If I part out then it'll pay for my f2b, but if I build the bottom end I'll be out a grand or so.
Money isn't really an issue though. I know I will miss the boost if I go na, but if I go na then I wouldn't need to worry about heat management.
I have a decent suspension setup. Tokico illuninas, 500lb/in rear progress coilovers and ground control 330lb/in fronts. 21mm rear sway bar, subframe brace, nothing up front. Mini Cooper front rotors and legend calipers, ep3 rear brake setup.
If I part out then it'll pay for my f2b, but if I build the bottom end I'll be out a grand or so.
Money isn't really an issue though. I know I will miss the boost if I go na, but if I go na then I wouldn't need to worry about heat management.
*corrected misspelled words
If you are trying to be competitive I would worry more about your suspension.
You driving an EM2 right?
No, 99 civic hatch, but I already decided. Gonna rebuild my bottom end with forged internals and run 300-350 reliably. If I can tune for 400, it would be great but with a 50 trim .48 a/r hotside I should get plenty mid range torque.
No, 99 civic hatch, but I already decided. Gonna rebuild my bottom end with forged internals and run 300-350 reliably. If I can tune for 400, it would be great but with a 50 trim .48 a/r hotside I should get plenty mid range torque.
That's going to be a lot of power on a lightweight FF for autocross.
Hope you have the tires.
LSD would help too.
I have won endurance road racing events with a turbo D16Z6. It works fine, but heat management is important. I ran a huge oil cooler, a full size dual core radiator, and an intercooler. We ran about 70 hours total with it including winning a 14 hour race. It is certainly possible to do.
I have won endurance road racing events with a turbo D16Z6. It works fine, but heat management is important. I ran a huge oil cooler, a full size dual core radiator, and an intercooler. We ran about 70 hours total with it including winning a 14 hour race. It is certainly possible to do.
No doubt, but in autocross. It's a lot of power to have for an FF.
I think in an autoX situation it's kind of up to your preference. The fastest guy out there right now uses a Rotrex supercharger, and I've seen at least one more of the same philosophy that should be fast as well. Andy Hollis won SMF a year or so ago with a big hp NA motor (300whp K24). I'm of the idea that whatever's more tractable in autocross is best since it's more about mechanical grip and not RAW power, so I'm going the NA route, albeit B series and probably closer to 240whp. For a road course, I could see more power being desirable.
I think in an autoX situation it's kind of up to your preference. The fastest guy out there right now uses a Rotrex supercharger, and I've seen at least one more of the same philosophy that should be fast as well. Andy Hollis won SMF a year or so ago with a big hp NA motor (300whp K24). I'm of the idea that whatever's more tractable in autocross is best since it's more about mechanical grip and not RAW power, so I'm going the NA route, albeit B series and probably closer to 240whp. For a road course, I could see more power being desirable.
AH also had an AST suspension and big brakes to go with a 300hp K24. Please don't make it sound like he dropped a 300hp NA motor into his car sitting on Tokiko Illuma's with a random coilovers and won national level autox. Also, don't discredit his decades of seat time.
Preventive maintenance, seat time, tires, brakes and suspension (suspension based on class) should be priority if you want to be competitive or even start out in autox. You will gain more from $$ spent on something like the SCCA Starting Line school than any amount of money you will put in modifying your engine for HP for autox.
I regret spending years of time trying to get a car ready for autox or HPDE. Until you understand that the nut behind the wheel should be improved on first, you will never be 'fast'.
Go to the junkyard and buy a cheap, stock motor, drop it in, buy tires and go get seat time.
I have run with turbo cars in the past. All of them have had heat management problems. I tried different methods, with front mounts, v-mounts, vented hoods, etc.
Added to that is turbo lag, that becomes very obvious on short tracks. You never think it's a problem daily driving, but having a 140-ish whp car turning into a 300-ish whp car while cornering is not something that is desired, especially when you are starting off and are not really consistent from lap to lap.
I have been driving on tracks for a while now (10+ years), and I have stopped this craziness and started to run bone stock N/A engines. Less time wrenching, more time driving is where I am at now...
AH also had an AST suspension and big brakes to go with a 300hp K24. Please don't make it sound like he dropped a 300hp NA motor into his car sitting on Tokiko Illuma's with a random coilovers and won national level autox. Also, don't discredit his decades of seat time.
Preventive maintenance, seat time, tires, brakes and suspension (suspension based on class) should be priority if you want to be competitive or even start out in autox. You will gain more from $$ spent on something like the SCCA Starting Line school than any amount of money you will put in modifying your engine for HP for autox.
I regret spending years of time trying to get a car ready for autox or HPDE. Until you understand that the nut behind the wheel should be improved on first, you will never be 'fast'.
Go to the junkyard and buy a cheap, stock motor, drop it in, buy tires and go get seat time.
Easy killer, I think you read a little more into things than my post let on. Just giving example that for what SCCA class he would likely be in (SMF) there's not a set formula for how to win. Everything Andy drives wins national championships, that's a given, and pretty sure I never said anything about dropping it in on ebay coilovers and winning.
I'll agree, it's best to take reliable over fast anyday of the week and work on repeatable results so you can dial in driving abilities rather than having more car than driver. Heck, I started out with just a D16Z6, stock tranny, street tires and Skunk2 coils and worked my way to where I'm at now...and I wouldn't have it any other way. It's much easier to drive a slow car fast and learn YOUR limits than starting in a fast car IMHO.
Heat management has always scared me away from forced induction for track so I don't have any experience with it.
There's a Full Race manifold and GT3076R that has been sitting on a shelf in my garage for years for this exact reason. I understand what heat management needs to be done, but I can't afford it. Let me put it this way, full size radiator is an absolute necessity! So is ducting to and from it, along with an external oil cooler of good size. It doesn't end there, cooling to your brakes due to increased weight and acceleration rate... big brakes get more expensive... then more heat is added to the tires, which bigger tires are more expensive.
Pick your poison... if you're looking for solely time attack turbo is the only way. If you actually want to spend more than 3 laps on a track, it's not feasible for most. I've considered widebody and aero to run 17x9's with 15" brake rotors up front as the way to put the turbo setup to use. I'm not that ballin.
08-22-2015, 08:45 PM
Boost or NA? I want to start autos/tracking
