firefighter81

I'm not much of a Honda guy, I don't know a whole lot about the motors but it looks like my next vehicle may just be powered by the K20A motor and tranny.

I've just put the required $10k deposit down to secure a spot on the waiting list for the US Production Ariel Atom 2. I probably won't be able to take delivery for about a year, it's a very small company and each car is custom hand-built to my specs.

So now I've got some time to think about options, the biggest choice seems to be the powerplant, here's my options:

GM 2.2 Ecotech N/A 140hp 150tq
GM 2.0 Ecotech Supercharged 205hp 200tq
GM 2.0 Ecotech Supercharged 230hp 205tq
GM 2.0 Ecotech Supercharged 245hp 215tq
GM 2.0 Ecotech Supercharged 300hp 250tq

Honda iVTEC 2.0 210hp 115tq
Honda iVTEC 2.0 245hp 143tq w/ Hondata ECU
Honda iVTEC 2.0 300hp 163tq Supercharged w/ Hondata ECU

So I've got a pretty big decision to make, and I'm starting to do research on both motors, and even though I know you guys on this forum are gonna be biased to the Honda motor, I would like to hear it's upsides and faults. I like torque, and the GM motor gives it, but I also like Honda reliability and honestly anything GM scares me as far as reliability goes. Keep in mind even the least powerful motor option above will still outrun a Porsche 911 Twin Turbo to 100mph, and it will outhandle it.

Any input is appreciated!

Thanks,
Jason

edit: for those of you who have never heard of the Atom, it's been pretty popular in the UK for the last 4 years, and they just began production in the US, the factory is based in Oregon. The car is street legal in some states, including my home state of Washington, so I'm happy with that. Here's a picture of one registered in WA.




Modified by firefighter81 at 12:02 AM 12/17/2005

AGENT 99

Honda iVTEC 2.0 300hp 163tq Supercharged w/ Hondata ECU
(reliability and revving high=t3h wIn!1)(oh, and vtec too)

thats what I say. You MUST keep us updated as I beleive you will be the first HT member with an Atom!!



and I found this:
http://rds.yahoo.com/S=9678130...1.mpg

firefighter81

I will keep you guys updated on the progress. I'm in the US Air Force, and I'm heading to Honduras for a year, which will be a good way to save some extra cash while waiting for the car to be built.

Also my daily driver is a 1993 Honda Civic coupe, no mods or anything, just a daily driver, and I love it, I'll probably keep it for a long while.

AGENT 99

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by firefighter81 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I will keep you guys updated on the progress. I'm in the US Air Force, and I'm heading to Honduras for a year, which will be a good way to save some extra cash while waiting for the car to be built.

Also my daily driver is a 1993 Honda Civic coupe, no mods or anything, just a daily driver, and I love it, I'll probably keep it for a long while.</TD></TR></TABLE>

just out of curiosity, how much is this thing going to set you back? $40k?

firefighter81

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EVIL ELMO &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">just out of curiosity, how much is this thing going to set you back? $40k?</TD></TR></TABLE>

The way that my car is configured to be built in their system right now will set me back about $44k fully assembled. That's with the 245hp K20, big brake upgrade kit, double bubble windscreen, lexan body panels, and a few other misc options here and there.

But I can change anything I want up until the day it starts production, which with the way the waiting list is now, looks like it will be at least 6-8 months.

transpar_nt

Are you set on a supercharger? Smaller engines (especially hondas) do WAY better with turbos.

MySelfAffliction

Honda iVTEC 2.0 300hp 163tq Supercharged w/ Hondata ECU


GM 2.0 Ecotech Supercharged 300hp 250tq


Hmmm to me i'd go with the ecotech if it's pulling 250TQ compared to the K20 with only 163.....but maybe that's just me.

firefighter81

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by transpar_nt &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Are you set on a supercharger? Smaller engines (especially hondas) do WAY better with turbos.</TD></TR></TABLE>

absolutely not....that's one of the reasons I came to this site, a friend of mine has reccomended turbocharging as well.

That's one of the reasons I am leaning towards the 245hp K20 with Hondata, because that will leave me completely open on options, if I want to continue all motor, or turbo, or supercharge.

They use a water intercooler on the forced induction versions so I would likely go the same route to save weight (less piping) and save a little cash on custom fab work.

But to be completely honest I am a complete amateur driver. I've done about 30 laps in an Evo VIII on a road course, that is my extent of true performance driving experience except for autox a few times. So I'm pretty sure for a while, the 245hp version will be far beyond my skills, until I get a couple racing schools under my belt, and some serious track time, I don't think an upgrade in power will be needed. Especially with the lack of driver assists such as ABS and traction control. The 300hp Honda version does 0-100 in under 7 seconds with a good driver, that's more power than I can handle right there.

PriMaTe

I don't know about the gm engine. But the honda engine has a ton of aftermarket support, there are a lot of people who have forced induction on stock k20 motors without problems, and honda knows how to make 4 cylinders. Also, an 8k redline is fun to play with. The same things can probably be said for the gm engine though, those torque numbers are nice. If you go with the NA honda engine and for some reason you want more power, you can toss on a turbo. I'd probably end up going with the honda though.

Very nice purchase though, i saw a video of it on top gear was it? Whatever the show is with the british guy, the video was posted here a few times. The car is absolutely crazy. Just be careful on public roads of other people, it's probably tough to see you since it's so low/small. Enjoy it that thing is awesome

SubTitle

I would go with this option Honda iVTEC 2.0 245hp 143tq w/ Hondata ECU

firefighter81

http://www.autocar.co.uk/popup...15770

video of a UK model (non-supercharged, 220hp) doing 0-100-0 in 10.88 seconds.

rice_classic

I think I would go for one of the ecotech's.

For me, the Jury is still out on the K20.

Remember that regardless of what option you choose, your Ariel Atom will be faster than anything you're used to.... not to mention faster than anything at Pacific Raceways.

These are my choices:

GM 2.0 Ecotech Supercharged 230hp 205tq

Honda iVTEC 2.0 300hp 163tq Supercharged w/ Hondata ECU

The reason I chose the 300hp SC K-series is because it's the one recommended by the British dude in Top Gear (that dude is in your Avatar).

Ash J. Williams

the power-plant choice depends on the type of driving you are planning to do with this car.
a lower revving ecotech engine with it's torque is better suited for a subdued, daily driving (i.e. cruising, traffic, etc.) where a more peaky honda engine is more suited for racing, where you keep the engine in it's peak power-band RPMs.
ecotech engines have been proven to be very reliable in UK and to some extend here in US, and is a very serious platform for upgrades (if you are so inclined). and of course the K series honda engines need no explanations.
in any case, i think you will be very happy with either choice.
stan

firefighter81

As long as I can keep paying for track days, the car will see the street about 70% of the time, and the track 30% of the time. I dunno, I gotta do alot of research and make some decisions, luckily I've got some time.

jisu009

hey the guy who owns the one in WA lives in Kirkland (my home city). I saw him at the post office last summer and talked with him for about an hour. I gave him some info on the K20a that he has in the car, since we were researching running one in our 25 hour enduro car.

Nice chap...I think he was British?

He is friends with the original designer/builder of the Atom.

Glad to see they are offering more engines then the original Land Rover lump.

The K20 has some downfalls that would need to be addressed if you plan on running it on the track a whole bunch. The rods are butter, the head has some oiling issues and if you miss a shift....kaboom! It is NOWHERE near as forgiving as the b-series for missed shifts. All it takes is ONE time.

If you want the inside scoop on K20's talk to username "KIWI" on here....he has done more testing on the K20's than anyone else except the World Challenge guys (good luck getting the info from them)....KIWI (Jeff Owens) has done failure testing on two perfectly good K20a2's and learned a whole bunch from that.

Good luck and please look me up and take me for a spin when you take delivery.

Also if you are serious about getting on track, I would be happy to steer you in the right direction. Just PM me for info.

Regal

The tq of the K20 will be plenty in a car that light. I would actually say it's probably preferable. The numbers definitely aren't everything in this case. A K20 is a smooth, high revving, elemental motor with a transmission that is perfectly suited to its dynamics- and it sounds amazing, too. The Ecotech is not the kind of motor you want powering a light sports car. It won't be nearly as willing to rev nor as dynamic.

As Motor Trend said when reviewing the new MX-5: "this motor is adequate, but it won't sing its way into your heart as one of the best engines of all time like a Ferrari V8 or a Honda VTEC four."

Also, the bottom line is there's no equal to a Honda transmission, and not just from the perspective of Honda fanboys, but also from the automotive press.

firefighter81

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jisu009 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">hey the guy who owns the one in WA lives in Kirkland (my home city). I saw him at the post office last summer and talked with him for about an hour. I gave him some info on the K20a that he has in the car, since we were researching running one in our 25 hour enduro car.

Good luck and please look me up and take me for a spin when you take delivery.

Also if you are serious about getting on track, I would be happy to steer you in the right direction. Just PM me for info. </TD></TR></TABLE>

thanks for all the info. The jury is still out on the motor for sure.

I have a feeling once I get it I'll be giving out ALOT of test rides, called my parents last night and told them, mom says she wants the first test ride in it. I'll be more than happy to give you a ride, and anyone else who wants one. A car like this should be enjoyed by as many people as possible, I'm not gonna be stingy with it. I have a video of a rising star in the Forumla circuit in Australia who has one. He sells rides in it to people at the track to fund

I'm trying to get stationed back in McChord (Tacoma) after Honduras, but the only guarantee I have is that I'll get something off my list, which also includes Arizona and Florida.

As soon as I get it and get the handle on the unique characteristics of the car (no ABS, no traction control, super lightweight) I'm going to attend some sort of a organized school so I can actually learn how to drive the car well.

StormBringer

Good to see someone here that has also ordered a ATOM. I am on the list as well, but way back. I was ~3-4 on the list of preorders before they were taking deposits. When they opened the beta I built my car out and then the top gear episode happened and all heck broke loose over there.

I personally went with the ecotech options as I have sandrail buddies who use them and I have a knowledge base to tap there. Also I think that I can get it through the SB100 number registration process out here faster with that engine.

I am at least one year out form placing my order now that there are so many deposits and by that time the motor choices will have settled down. At this point I think that they don't even have a supplier for the ecotech stuff.

firefighter81

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by StormBringer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Good to see someone here that has also ordered a ATOM. I am on the list as well, but way back. I was ~3-4 on the list of preorders before they were taking deposits. When they opened the beta I built my car out and then the top gear episode happened and all heck broke loose over there.

I personally went with the ecotech options as I have sandrail buddies who use them and I have a knowledge base to tap there. Also I think that I can get it through the SB100 number registration process out here faster with that engine.

I am at least one year out form placing my order now that there are so many deposits and by that time the motor choices will have settled down. At this point I think that they don't even have a supplier for the ecotech stuff. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah, it seems that their biggest problem is getting the supply of engines from Honda and GM. I can be a very patient person when it comes to something I really want. So I have no problem at all with the wait. I've been hearing alot of good stuff about the Ecotech engines. Why do you say it would be easier to register in CA with the Ecotech?

AGENT 99

How do they do that anyway? Get engines? Do they just call up Honda and say hey give me 50 K20 engines because we want to put them in OUR cars. Would Honda be okay with that??

ucb

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MySelfAffliction &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Honda iVTEC 2.0 300hp 163tq Supercharged w/ Hondata ECU


GM 2.0 Ecotech Supercharged 300hp 250tq


Hmmm to me i'd go with the ecotech if it's pulling 250TQ compared to the K20 with only 163.....but maybe that's just me.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I agree

torque ownz

Rednas

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by UCBSTI &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I agree

torque ownz</TD></TR></TABLE>

i agree, but in a car as light as this one even the Honda Engine puts out more than enough torque. Personally, I'd take the Honda Engine just for reliability sake.

jisu009

If it were my Atom.

K24/k20r head, fully built and supercharged.

mkazm83

I saw one of these today at a meet, everyone was drooling.

SomeDude56

I hate you........but.... k20 superc. all the way