mityVR6

I'm looking at a new 2005 Taco V6/auto/access cab/TRD suspension 4x4. The Taco V6 got a bump in power and towing capacity (from 5000 pounds to 6500 pounds) for the 2005MY. I'm wondering if it would be sufficient to tow a Miata or an E36 M3 on an open flatbed trailer along relatively flat routes (read: not through the LA-area Grapevine, but to Thunderhill and Buttonwillow from the Bay Area, CA.)

I'm totally aware that trucks like the 2500HD and SuperDuty or E250 diesels are far superior towing machines for serious towing. I'm looking at more like five to seven two hundred mile tows per year along flat routes for HPDE events. I won't need to haul all the gear and people typically necessary to support a race program.

Any thoughts?

-Adam

mityVR6

I should add:

I would definitely investigate a load distributing hitch and the best brake controller available for any trailer I consider. An Amsoil bypass oil filter system would also be installed. The Toyota tow package includes an automatic transmission oil cooler.

I'm interested in the Toyota because I don't really want to drive a full sized truck everyday (or just in general.) I like the size and fuel economy of the Toyota, along with the build quality reputation that Toyota products have. I also don't wish to spend $40k on a nice Duramax for now, but would definitely look to step up to that kind of rig at some point down the road if I went to an enclosed trailer.
-Adam

TeamSlowdotOrg

Miata: qualified yes

M3: no

IMHO. Brakes are what I'd be worried about, the front ones. Power, eh, a slow tow is no big deal, but brake horsepower (PUN!) is kindof a necessity. Find out about whether or not they can stop an 8000 lb rig by, say, posting on web forums to see what other people have done.

I thought about towing with my Jeep, which is similar to the Tacomas in a lot of ways, with better power/weight and a 5000 lb tow rating. The brakes are small, and a load with a Miata, a trailer, spares, tools, tires, food, water, clothes etc. for an out-of-town race weekend would easily exceed its GVWR and I live in a somewhat hilly area.

LX4CYL

I've always wondered how a i-force 4.7L V8 Toyota 4runner would serve as a tow vehicle. My father drives one

Scot

"david nyc" tows his racing ITR (~2450lbs for the car) with an older Tacoma v6..... open trailer..up and down hills to VIR from NYC with no problems......

M3 would probably weigh an extra 800lbs.? but the newer trucks probably weigh more than his tacoma....so they should have better braking, etc.....

Todd00

Are folks forgetting about trailer brakes? My flatbad trailer has dual-axle brakes and if I crank them up enough via the brake controller, stopping is the least of my worries. I actually need to turn them down in town because the trailer stops the rig too well.

Roldan

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mityVR6 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I'm interested in the Toyota because I don't really want to drive a full sized truck everyday (or just in general.) I like the size and fuel economy of the Toyota, along with the build quality reputation that Toyota products have. I also don't wish to spend $40k on a nice Duramax for now, but would definitely look to step up to that kind of rig at some point down the road if I went to an enclosed trailer.
-Adam</TD></TR></TABLE>

I understand your sentiment and you'll be fine. I didn't want to be driving a Full-Size anything everyday and for an open trailer a smaller vehicle is sufficient. I tow a an aluminum trailer but the vehicle you plan on towing with has a greater towing capacity than my Montero. Braking is not an issue, the trailer brakes even though they are stupid surge brakes help a lot.

I have realized the benefits of an enclosed trailer and you may want to consider that before you spend serious money on a brand new tow vehicle that can't pull one. I'll be buying an enclosed trailer in the next few years and that will require a different tow vehicle. X5 maybe? I still don't want want to drive a Full-Size.

Solo2Cvc

I tow with a '98 4Runner 4x4 with a 3.4L V6. Towing my H5 car on a tilt bed trailer (roughly 4000lbs. with everything loaded) I have no problems. You only have to get after it on the steepest of hills. As far as braking is concerned, the trailer is equipped with surge (hydraulic) brakes which helps.

I have towed other vehicles with the truck right up to it's 5000lb. limit. I wouldn't use it as a regular tow vehicle, but for once a month, towing a Civic race car, it works just fine.

tnord

i tow a miata across the flattest of lands (kansas and iowa), and i wouldn't go with anything less than what i have (i actually wish i had a diesel). i get beat up in the car all weekend, do all my own crew work, and after all that on a 100 degree kansas afternoon, the last thing i want to do is have to do any sort of work towing home.

set cruise at 75 and go.

a V6 tacoma will not get you this. with cruise set at 75, my speed still varies about 3-4mph going up hills. it really is annoying when you pass somebody, then they pass you back going up the hill, then you start to pass them again going down....etc. i've got 315 ft/lbs in my silverado, and more would definitely be nice.

even though you don't think you have much extra stuff to bring along, you will start to accumulate it. the first race i brought my new truck to this year my bed was less than 1/2 full, towards the end of the year, i was leaving stuff behind because i didn't have room.

you can get good used full-size trucks for less than 20g's, and they really aren't that bad to drive around town. and you can just do like i did and pick up another car to drive on a daily basis, and the truck gets reserved mostly for snow and racing duties.

mstewar

i had a 99 tacoma v6 trd.. I towed with it on a few occasions and decided it was not optimal.. did it work? yes.. was it fun? not really.. if you're going to do it, upgrade the front brakes and make sure you had a load distributing hitch and a brake controller..

davidnyc

I have a 1998 Toyota Tacoma 4X4 V6 Xtracab 5speed manual with an added leaf spring in the rear from http://www.performanceproducts.com (If you need a specific part, I can show you).
Tow = trailer about 1500lbs (dual axle with brakes on each axle), car about 2500lbs, stuff about 1000lbs (my body weight and at times my crew chief is included in stuff) = 5000lbs.

I can cruise on flats up to 90mph (stupid, but I can). Maintaining 75mph is easy.
Hills, long hills on highways always have to shift to 4th gear. Very steep, long hills, need to go to 3rd at times.

Disadvantages: power which can make you fatigued
Advantages: reliability. I change oil before each tow and front brake pads once a year, that is it.

I am not comfortable with a used domestic. Some people have no problems, some people have tons. Three of my friends who bought used domestic tow vehicles have some issue that has them rethinking their purchase.
If I could afford it, I would buy a Titan. But, I can't.


Modified by davidnyc at 12:47 PM 10/25/2004

SPiFF

Can you tow with a small truck like a Tacoma? Sure you can. Do want to, no you don't. With minimal gear and a tow dolly for short distances, it should be okay. Anything more is asking for it.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by LX4CYL &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I've always wondered how a i-force 4.7L V8 Toyota 4runner would serve as a tow vehicle. </TD></TR></TABLE>

They work great. I have one. Tows like a champ with a brake controller, open trailer, H3 GSR, and the truck packed full of gear. Since it is an SUV, it can be a little nervous with high wind of big rigs around. I try not to go faster then 70-75. But if the weight of the car is balanced well on the trailer and there is no other cars around, it will tow straight as an arrow at 85+. The 5AT is also an added bonus above the Tundra and most trucks. A downshift out of overdrive will put at about 2700RPM, pull to 3500 and ten back to overdrive. Great for gas milage. I can get 14MPG if it stays in overdrive, 11-12 if it is in 4th a lot.

prkiller

The new 05 tundra is getting that same 5AT tranny!

And Spiff, you should not usually tow in OD! When you take it out of OD, it locks the torque converter and helps the tranny not to overheat! It should be in your owners manual to "never tow" in OD!

The only time I use OD is when I have the trailer on there empty, and I am on a flat stretch of land!


As far as an 05 Taco towing, you should be just fine especially when you put a brake controller on! 6500 pounds should be plenty to tow what your asking! You certainly wont pull the hills like a V8 or Dis, but you already said that was fine with you!

bad-monkey

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by davidnyc &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have a 1998 Toyota Tacoma 4X4 V6 Xtracab 5speed manual with an added leaf spring in the rear from http://www.performanceproducts.com (If you need a specific part, I can show you).
Tow = trailer about 1500lbs (dual axle with brakes on each axle), car about 2500lbs, stuff about 1000lbs (my body weight and at times my crew chief is included in stuff) = 5000lbs.

I can cruise on flats up to 90mph (stupid, but I can). Maintaining 75mph is easy.
Hills, long hills on highways always have to shift to 4th gear. Very steep, long hills, need to go to 3rd at times.

Disadvantages: power which can make you fatigued
Advantages: reliability. I change oil before each tow and front brake pads once a year, that is it.

I am not comfortable with a used domestic. Some people have no problems, some people have tons. Three of my friends who bought used domestic tow vehicles have some issue that has them rethinking their purchase.
If I could afford it, I would buy a Titan. But, I can't.


Modified by davidnyc at 12:47 PM 10/25/2004</TD></TR></TABLE>

do you have any indications whether there's been accelerated clutch wear on your 5speed? Even though it is the tow rig, i would want my 4x4 yota in a manual, but i hear that towing can kill clutches.

davidnyc

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bad-monkey &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

do you have any indications whether there's been accelerated clutch wear on your 5speed? Even though it is the tow rig, i would want my 4x4 yota in a manual, but i hear that towing can kill clutches.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

I unfortunately do not have any "real" data. The only thing I can tell you is that I bought my truck used at about 50K miles. I have added about 30K miles and about 10-15K of that is towing?? My clutch still grabs, but I am thinking of putting a stronger aftermarket clutch in just in case. I am assuming that the clutch is original but I didn't ask the previous owner.

What I think, is that once you get the car moving, there is minimal wear on the clutch, or am I wrong? I think most damage is stop and go traffic, and moving from a dead stop.

E-AT_me

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by davidnyc &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
What I think, is that once you get the car moving, there is minimal wear on the clutch, or am I wrong? I think most damage is stop and go traffic, and moving from a dead stop.</TD></TR></TABLE>


yup. that's exactly why i try and keep moving with my 87 f150. it's got a straight six, and an old-school four speed with granny first. great for towing.. not so good on gas mileage.. but hey, it's a truck!

SPiFF

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by prkiller &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The new 05 tundra is getting that same 5AT tranny!</TD></TR></TABLE>

Nice. Great tranny. A ton better then the 4AT in there now.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">And Spiff, you should not usually tow in OD! When you take it out of OD, it locks the torque converter and helps the tranny not to overheat! It should be in your owners manual to "never tow" in OD!

The only time I use OD is when I have the trailer on there empty, and I am on a flat stretch of land! </TD></TR></TABLE>

I used OD as a generic term for the top gear, aka "D" on the tranny. I don't think any Honda or Toyota car I have ever owed used the term over drive. It might be something left over from the past or used by only some manufactures.

In any case, the manual doesn't say anything special about what gear to run in, or not to run it, while towing. With the 5AT, "D" works great. Hardly ever shifts out of top gear, and like I said, if it does, it is only a 1000RPM or so jump in revs.

jc836

Point to ponder-my neighbor had a Tacoma to tow a relatively small boat. He bought a second boat (don't ask) that is much larger, while keeping the smaller one. He went to pull the big boat and found the Taco was not up to it for the hills and roads in general. Keep in mind that neither of these are really big-just awkward in the airstream. The Tacoma was brand new 2 years ago. What did he do-bought a Ram 1500 and can pull anything he wants. Too big for me for daily but suits him fine. He parks our race rig for me since he drives trucks for a living and likes to volunteer &lt;G&gt;.

What did I get myself you ask? An '03 Dakota SLT CrewCab 4.7 V8 with full tow package, 4 speed OD automatic tranny, Brake controller and our R&R Aluminum 20' open trailer. The trailer weighs 1350 and the CRX another 2100. The gear in the bed is well over 600 plus me and my lady up front. The GVRW is 6010 for this setup and we are near it. The rear springs had to be replaced after our first tow to BeaveRun from home-almost flat, btw. We wound up adding extended bumpstop helpers (Timbren) to combat the extra weight.

So, if you feel that you will load up a 3000 pound car on a trailer plus the gear to support it-forget it. You probably will be near that number anyway and your investment will change. I need a shorter trailer but the weight saving is only 100 pounds or so.
Think carefully.
Sorry about the hijack


Modified by jc836 at 8:42 AM 10/26/2004

kb58

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jc836 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">...So, if you feel that you will never load up a 3000 pound car on a trailer plus the gear to support it-forget it. ... </TD></TR></TABLE>

Point taken, but if everyone bought a truck for something they might tow "someday" we'd all be driving $50k turbo-diesels. I think it's quite quite reasonable to buy something we can both afford and live with. Something that's a solution for the forseeable future instead of a "solution" to a non-existent problem.

TeamSlowdotOrg

I don't think that's the point, necessarily. The point is, even if your racecar DOES weigh 2100 lbs and you DO have an open aluminum trailer, you're still going to run in to times when you have 900 lbs of extra crap (a set of rains, spare dries, and spare axles by themselves can easily weigh 250 lbs, and that's a minimum for a race weekend in places that aren't Crazyfornia), passengers, etc. on top of it and that's when things can get dicey. I'm just saying, if you can possibly stand to drive it and can afford it, a full-size is a better option. If not, work wif wut u gotz.

mityVR6

I'm not racing. So the only spares I really would be interested in bringing are fluids and the small stuff that can break... pads, rotors, a spring or two. I hear what you're saying, but I'm not too worried about bringing lots of extras for fear of dropping out of the points race.
-Adam

Vracer111

Is there any particular reason you want the 4x4 over the 2x4? 2WD is better for towing and daily driving. If you are looking for the TRD suspension and such get a PreRunner - 2WD with TRD 4WD suspension setup. And I would definately recommend upgrading the front brakes if you can... the ones on my '98 Tacoma aren't that great Haven't done any long distance towing, but I have towed a loaded 4'x8'x4' trailer full of roof shingles and siding to the landfill with my 2.4L Tacoma. Handled the job ok and never got bogged down on the landfill grades, you just have to read the terrain and drive accordingly.

jc836

Forgot to mention that ours is indeed a 4x2 because of the fuel economy and fact we do not use the truck off-road at all. You have to consider that our rig will haul the cars I now have along with many extras. Be very careful with the maximum capacity number as we learned. It is no fun having the rear end of any truck sag 4". If your budget permits then the Tundra would be a much better choice in general. We have issues with parking in Pittsburgh with our truck and other folks do too with their SUVs because of height. The Tacoma will barely clear many garages here. Again consider the whole package.

E-AT_me

well, if anyone really cares, my shortbed f150 isn't a bear to drive at all around town and park.. it's just easier to back in, that's all.

but i do enjoy going off road, so i definately got 4wd with this one.. plus, it adds a little weight to the truck making it a little more stable in my opinion.

Todd00

OK, might as well throw my .$02 in. This is what I've done to my Tacoma, and I must say it tows the car very well, so the haters can step off

-03 Toyota Tacoma doublecab TRD Prerunner (2x4, and you get the beefy suspension/shocks + the locking rear diff).
-Auto tranny with 3.4L DOHC V6

Upgrades:

-Axxis ultimate front pads
-TRD Tranny cooler
-TRD 16x8 Wheels
-TRD Supercharger with 5lb pulley
-Toyota class IV hitch
-Toyota hitch wiring harness
-SuperSprings helper leaf spring
-Modified air intake
-Dynomax SS exhaust
-Reese brake controller
-Mobil1 5w30 oil
-Denso Iridium plugs

What I tow:

-16', 1000lb full deck aluminum trailer with brakes on both axles
-My ITR, Civic, etc.
-Misc tools and such

Never overheats, runs hot, etc. Even when towing @ 90 degrees with the a/c on. On long steep hills I shift out of O/D, but usually I just put it in O/D and leave it there. I love passing trucks with enclosed trailers on the highway I usually tow around 70-75 mph and average about 14-18 mpg (18mpg coming when I tow about 62-65 mph).

And the nice part is that the truck is actually fun to drive and it fits well in my garage. Sure, I could have bought a used domestic, then you gotta worry about stupid things like the fuel pump or alt. or something taking a **** on the way to an event. Newer used diesels still bring some $$ with low mileage and the high mileage ones are just that--high mileage.

Sure, I'd like to have a large diesel, but it just isn't something that would work for me right now. Plus, why spend all that $$ when what I have works fine?