rotten

Grandpa, the "Warning" thread is appreciated, don't get me wrong.

But frankly the whole underlying issue is stupid. This is a forum. Participation from all users is required if you want the forum to survive. Implementing draconian tactics in the misguided attempt to increase revenue is going to hurt the community and the site in general.

Having an environment that encourages free expression is the lifeblood forum's ecosystem. Newsflash: The participants create the content. If they want to modestly promote something on the content you create (and hold copyrights to), they should be able to. I'm not talking about huge advertising threads, but simple signatures are the price that should be paid by the RelyNet folks for getting otherwise free content to monetize.

TheMidasTouch

iTrader: (2)

I fully agree, and this saddens me on the sellout (for lack of a better word). However, economic 'masterminds' most likely accounted for the increase in attrition due to this move and still deemed it financially advantageous.

My take is that they have predicted the end of the H-T life-cycle and are now attempting to capitalize on its closure.

It seems that auto enthusiasts will again have resort to smaller scale more specialized measures for interaction. This is a cyclical lifespan, However, the next occurrence will most likely be Hyundai-Tech.com or some such silliness.

kb58

I used to promote my book here, in my signature. I don't think many clicked through my sig, so becoming a vendor doesn't add up. So I removed it, eliminating a link that Honda enthusiasts found interesting, but oh well. Capitalism promotes sucking as much money from a host as possible - just short of killing it - but it doesn't mean it stays healthy.

Here are my business questions:

1. Should I remove all links to HT.com from my website and book? I put them there to be generous and helpful, but now that it's all about money, I realize that only HT makes money from them, not me. If we're now being hard-nosed businessmen, should I warn HT that unless they pay I'll remove the links.

2. Someday, will I be asked to prove that my website in my sig does not make money, just in case there's money to be had?

3. I authored a popular major thread here, which HT benefits from, and I get nothing. I was fine with that, but now that it's all about money, should I delete my thread because I'm not being compensated?

See, it cuts both ways.

My book promo is still in my sig on k20.org; I tend to check that site more than this one now...



Modified by kb58 at 1:24 PM 5/30/2008

slammed_93_hatch

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kb58 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Capitalism promotes sucking as much money from a host as possible - just short of killing it - but it doesn't mean it stays healthy.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Bullshit.


Capitalism is about making money. If these new "educated" business people that bought HT had ANY real business sense and UNDER stood how the forum works, they would realize what they are doing is going to kill this site.

Sure there are still going to be a whole lot of "members" but they wont post, not look at these pages often. Once the Knowledge base goes away eventually all of the people looking for information will go away.


OOO BTW NON of the links in my sig are NOT MY companies, nor do i work for any of them. I will not remove them from my sig

KIWI

I agree 100% !
However, now that I don't bother spending as much time reading the posts and answering often repetitive questions, or giving out free technical advise to Honda Tech Members as I used to... My posts would now be considered advertising,
so...
I am taking pleasure in giving the same Free advise to interested readers on <U>Other Honda forums </U>where I am not threatened with Banishment, and in fact I'm welcomed as a technical contributor!
I'm sure I will soon be joined by many of the other dis-enchanted regulars who have contributed a heap of "Good Stuff" to Honda-Tech over the years.

Good luck with the future.

Kiwi

splitime

Guys... this format of thinking has been around for years behind the scenes on this site. It is just being stepped up some. I hope you realize this.

ekim952522000

This is stepped WAAAAAY up from what it once was.

People cannot even tell us when a new product is out with out paying

kb58

It's ironic that, once posted, freely contributed advice, articles, and how-to's, are, in essence, a commodity to be sold off - but only if it doesn't benefit the contributor .

I don't know, it just seems like an uneven playing field, where the organization that accepts the free contribution is the only one allowed to make money. If it's all about money, shouldn't contributers get paid for their input, like a magazine would do?

CRX Lee

Although I have spent less time here in recent months due to a number of things, especially reduced time to answer a large volume of H-T technical PMs that I get. I am saddened to see things progress this far. If that is the way that it is going to be, so be it and a number of us will be forced away.

I came to H-T as a multiple Honda owner and racer to try to sell an engine from my personal racecar and stayed because I found it to be a great place with good info and good people. Because I work for a company who has a lot of customers here, I tried very hard to be heavy on the technical advice side and as light as possible on the sales side. I normally did not have a reference to my work in my sig line but kept it in my profile so no one thought I was sneaky or pulling any punches. I have participated for so many years in so many threads that it is not possible for me to recall, find and scour them clean of any company reference. If that gets me banned, it is unfortunate but there is nothing that I can do about it. If I stop showing up here all together, you'll know why I guess and hopefully we'll meet up somewhere else. Cheers!

Natural Aspirations

Wow I am really surprised that they believe this will stimulate their business....
There went the Tech in Honda-Tech

EdoMoto

Its very sad. That it has come down to this. I do not sell any products in my sig.


Edo


Modified by EdoMoto at 12:07 AM 5/31/2008

granracing

Before I say anything, I really want to thank George and the former owners (hopefully new owners too?) for their support with my project. I know that without their help promoting the resource I wrote, many people would never have known about it. I'd like to believe that because of their support, several people here have benefited from it. After 25,000 plus hits on the previous sticky thread, it obviously drew interest from fellow Honda Tech members. Now it's being offered for free, so I'll keep it in my sig and hope I don't get banned for it. Yeah, I know. There are things on my site that might generate revenue but I'm so far in the negative, it certainly isn't a for-profit "business".

From their perspective, I do agree with disallowing blatent posts that are strictly for advertising businesses with a profit only in mind, and little else. At the same time, I absolutely want people like Lee from Koni and Greg from Isaac posting here with all of their knowledge. Those are the type of people that drew me to this site, and kept me coming back. Years ago, I used to ask questions about my Prelude or S2000, and answer was "goto Honda Tech and post your question". While some of these experts didn't pay cash for their business promotion, they certainly have contributed to this site in multiple ways. I'd like to think that I've become one of those. It would be easy for us to say not to provide advice and guidance to people here, but unfortunately that also hurts them too.

In a racing forum, I'd expect to see advertising from various racing teams. As a minimum we should be able to show support of those businesses who have provided us support in one way or another, whether it be financial or even "just" advice.

I too felt the warning thread is a bit much. Dave, who hopefully will have a sticky thread back, keeps promoting a free resource in my sig. or will be banned.

Crazydave

What a great way to alienate the valued contributing members of honda-tech!

I understand that everyone has a right to earn a buck... and that the ad agency of honda-tech has a right to protect their investment and return on investment. But to publically post a message and say that a "summary action" will be taken against thoses offenders.... Come on! This can be dealt with in a much more discrete and professional manner.

I could understand if ACME Roll Cage Company was posting on every thread with a HUGE sig and picture of their company telling people about their products and having a heavy handed sales approach... but a simple listing of the company in the signature will result in a "Summary Action" ....... WTF H-T!

Honestly I don't know if George was forced to do this by the company, or if it was his idea.... either way I think there is some disrection and tact that could have been taken to get this information across..... it doesn't look good for H-T or it's members.

Honestly if the company is required to post such a warning, then they have no faith or respect for their future or current customers.

Petty garbage like this drives out the good people.



I won't be clicking on any ad-links.

weargle

Screw Internet Brands. If this sort of tactics is how they try to manipulate the marketplace and the free expression of experiences with said marketplace, then I hope that they fail. Miserably.

Please check your portfolio and insure that INET is not among your holdings. Stop supporting these guys by owning their shares.

Also, stop by http://www.internetbrands.com/ib and see who else that they own. Finally, be sure to tell Honda how you feel about their trademarked name being used to generate profit for another company.

Peace out, this is probably the last post that I'll be able to make here as I'll be banned soon enough.

Wes

xJSLOTHx

i believe this is why i was banned! i was formally known as "spock_rocker" and as many of you know i work for memoryfab and had the company URL in my signature. the post was made on the 29th about the new policy which i didnt see and here it is a day later and i was banned! awesome huh?!! i had information from people i needed in my PM's needless to say im frustrated as all hell

jvtec95

This is really sad, and an unfortunate turn of events. Two people that were incredibly helpful to me, spock_rocker when I was picking out seats, and RCautoworks who helped me on a myriad of occasions, have been booted.

The new policy is basically making it impossible for smaller vendors, and people who are really only selling parts to help the community, to operate. Guess what? THESE are the people that are helpful and answer questions!

Just try and get detailed technical answers from any of the big time vendors, or those selling cheap knock off parts.

I don't think they should have to pay a forum that they helped make popular, but if it is determined that they have to, couldn't there be a smaller fee for them rather than the ridiculously inflated cost to be a H-T vendor??

I know the honda-tech bean counters won't give a damn about any of this, but this forum was created to be an environment for free exchange of ideas, and will go downhill with these ****-esque tactics to create a profit.

Long story short: This is complete

EARLdaSQUIRREL

i feel this will ultimately be the end of h-t as a resource of technical information, it might as well be called sponsor-tech or ebay-tech as that is all the owners seem to be using it as

i have talked to many small business's who could barely afford to be sponsors before, but now they are spending as much money to be a sponsor on here as most people would pay rent for a REAL BUSINESS store front.

i guess from now on i will send people to search h-t in the archives and not even worry about searching new posts for information
....


Modified by George Knighton at 11:35 PM 5/30/2008

Natural Aspirations

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by weargle &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Finally, be sure to tell Honda how you feel about their trademarked name being used to generate profit for another company.</TD></TR></TABLE>

It is now kind of tough to say the board does not make a profit when laden with so many ads, I am sure this will be an issue in the near future.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jvtec95 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Just try and get detailed technical answers from any of the big time vendors, or those selling cheap knock off parts.</TD></TR></TABLE> If they answer, its never very informative.

EARLdaSQUIRREL

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Natural Aspirations &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

It is now kind of tough to say the board does not make a profit when laden with so many ads, I am sure this will be an issue in the near future.


If they answer, its never very informative.</TD></TR></TABLE>

exactly, im not a sponsor and this infuiriates me!! long gone will be the days of being able to pm geoff from full-race or jeff from evans tuning, let alone all the other vast small companies out there

kb58

I see two interesting things here:

1. Notice how the "Warning" thread has been deleted?

2. In a post above by "EARLdaSQUIRREL", he wrote:
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">"i guess from now on i will send people to search h-t in the archives and not even worry about searching new posts for information
....

Modified by George Knighton at 11:35 PM 5/30/2008"</TD></TR></TABLE>

I was very surprised that George, whom I've never met but have great respect for, edited this guys post. Granted, I don't know what it was originally, but this kind of freaks me out. I can understand deleting an offensive post, but to edit a post and leave it?

This means now we can't be sure of what anyone says if the post has been edited by a moderator. Who knows how it was altered or what EARLdaSQUIRREL wanted to say.

First the warning and now this... freakin' me out, man

rotten

Wow. I figured I'd get mostly flamed. It is interesting to see a common consensus from the major brain trust of this forum.

I just realized that pretty much if you want to get definitive knowledge, you have to talk to professionals. And professionals, are going to be working for or own their own company. It'd be nice if they can at least get branding benefit out of it.

UltimateTSI

this is not cool......


bye

LeftLaneB*tch

kb58, I also noticed the post was modified and got very erked out

The "Warning" Thread has been deleted, does that mean that the rule is still in force, just behind-the-scenes now???

Kamin

IMO internet brands is testing the waters with how dictator-like they can be.

if there is an uproar by the members, they will remove the rule because if people get mad and leave, they dont make money.

selling this site to IB, INC was the worst decision imaginable. when this site was started it was run by people who cared. even the staff on HT now acts like they are on the payroll.

in my signature there is a link to my car (on honda tech's garage) that has links to my sponsors. does that mean i should get banned for that?

what about just having pictures of my car on there. the stickers on my car are from companies who dont pay honda tech for advertising. should i be banned and they be taken down for that?

ridiculous.

granracing

NEWS ALERT!!!!

Both NASA and SCCA are no longer allowing cars to participate in any solo or racing events which have advertising on it. Instead, if you want to promote your sponsors on the racecar, you need to pay both organizations $$$$$ to do so.