inh

im really wanting to do this, i just have a few hurdles to work around...

when i get back from iraq i plan on doing this, but i need a strong way to do the axels (would i be able to get them made) and deal with the rear clutch pack. i wouldn tmind locking it in solidly allthe time, just trying to find a good way to do it. one train of though: does the rear diff REALLY need an oil pump? most dont.. so i could just replace that with a bushing or something to lock the clutch in. or perhaps remove the whole clutch assembly alltogether..

my plans are for a boosted b20 (only like 10psim but 11:1 compression) in a crx shell with EVERYTHING painted flat black. no blow off valve, gonna run a 'compressor bypass' that vents the pressurized air back in to the inlet tract before the compressor housing (quieter.)

so yea, axels and rea diff. i really dont want that delay in it locking up=[

as for claims of strength, rallysol's been usin it wih no issues, i think. the drivetrain was made for a 3200lb suv. ithink it will hold up fine in a 2k crx...

inh

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I know if anything on the car fails it will be the axles and already have a VW style flange designed for the differential side.</TD></TR></TABLE>

would you mind sharin this, along with the other details to get it to work? havent had much time to snoop around under porches

RallySol

There are some ideas I'm willing to share and then there are others I'm going to be a dick about and not share. Axle designs are one of those I'm going to be a dick about. Do your homework.

Nothing to report thus far. Last weekend was a wash due to a sinus infection and this weekend was a literal wash-out with all the rain we've gotten. However, the rain has changed my priorities a bit. Instead of buying new tires for the Sol, I'm going to put tires on the Conquest so I can take it to work and dig into the Sol's rear diff to see if I can modify the pump system or get rid of it all together. Pics will follow as soon as the diff gets cracked open.

inh

i understand about not being willing to share, especially since you compete =]

please do report on the pump system though =] im thinking we can just ditch the pump and clutch alltogether and replace them with a machined cylinder locking the driveshaft to the diff.. i need to get in touch with my buddy at honda and have him send me the FSM pages with the diagrmam of it.

edit: another thing i was thinking. How hard/practical do you guys think it would be to take front spinlde assemblys and use them for the rear. That way you get the 4 bolt lug pattern, a splined hub for an axel, and disc brakes... I think it would work well as long as you lock it down to keep from turning...

Is there some kinda of advantage to using a trailing arm in the rear?


Modified by inh at 8:32 AM 12/11/2006


Modified by inh at 8:59 AM 12/11/2006

turbocivic7901

I notice your transmission is cable. Why did you decide to keep it cable, was it cable before? My car is hydraulic, what if I wanted to keep it that way, could the transmission be modified to work with it or would I have to switch completely to cable?

WhiteSol

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turbocivic7901 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I notice your transmission is cable. Why did you decide to keep it cable, was it cable before? My car is hydraulic, what if I wanted to keep it that way, could the transmission be modified to work with it or would I have to switch completely to cable?</TD></TR></TABLE>

The transmission is hydraulic clutch and cable shifter. As opposed to hydraulic clutch and solid shifter linkage like most other newer B and D series transmissions.
What was necessary to modify was the shifter assembly, it was swapped out for the cable style shifter of an early model Civic 4wd Wagon. He modified the shifter bracket on the transmission to accomodate for the different length of shifter cables vs using the CRV cables.

turbocivic7901

Cool, thanks a lot.

inh

how hard do you think it would be to modify rear disc brakes to accept axels? might be a simplematter of hybridizing parts from front and rear disc setups, and maybe a bit of custom machine work..

RallySol

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by inh &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">how hard do you think it would be to modify rear disc brakes to accept axels? might be a simplematter of hybridizing parts from front and rear disc setups, and maybe a bit of custom machine work..</TD></TR></TABLE>

It would be much easier to modify the rear drums from a wagon to accept rear discs and calipers. Something else thats on the drawing board. I already have a set of donor trailing arms with discs, but haven't had the time to have brackets made to fit the wagon arms. Can't speak to making CRV disc trailing arms fit the civic/sol/integra platform.

inh

are the wagon arms that much different from standard civic ones? i know that you can unbolt the whole disc brake assembly form a DA arm and it will bolt right up to the crx one, so i guess i assumed that it was the same for the wagon. looks like yet another thing i'll have to figure out once i have parts in hand..

could you post up some more pics/info on the cable shift setup? specifically how it is attached to the trans.

thanks man =]

RallySol

CRV's anchor is aluminum, Wagon's anchor is steel. Chop, cut, grind, weld and tap.

88ED8

they are longer due to the wagon having a longer wheel base...

WhiteSol

Interesting, by the look of your cable holder your cables look like they fit better than mine.. I think mine are a bit too long. I would have like to have purchased the CRV cables, as they would be direct fit, but I made do with the 1990 prelude ones.

My modified bracket


Rally I noticed on your TSC thread you mounted the rear crossmember further back which induced negative caster which is opposite to the CRV which has slightly positive caster, what was the reasoning behind this? Any reason you didn't go with the modified CRV trailing arms and ITR LCA?

'98 CRV trailing arm


Best of luck on your cage (nice tools too!). You post some pics up in the Del Sol Owners Club thread when you are done. Sols + roll cages are very rare indeed.

jared831

thats **** is crazy!!! good job...

RallySol

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by WhiteSol &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Interesting, by the look of your cable holder your cables look like they fit better than mine.. I think mine are a bit too long. I would have like to have purchased the CRV cables, as they would be direct fit, but I made do with the 1990 prelude ones.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Man, what I wouldn't give for a TIG machine. The wagon's cables are just about right, maybe a tad on the short side. What I did was connected the cables to the transmission's gear selector arms and then tacked the anchors with everything where it needed to be.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Rally I noticed on your TSC thread you mounted the rear crossmember further back which induced negative caster which is opposite to the CRV which has slightly positive caster, what was the reasoning behind this? Any reason you didn't go with the modified CRV trailing arms and ITR LCA?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Moving the re rear crossmember allowed me to locate the differential farther back, closer to on center with the hubs in the trailing arms and keep the LCAs from getting torqued at an odd angle since they bolt off center on the wagon and CRV trailing arms as opposed to on center on civic/integra/del sol arms. The reason my struts have a forward tilt is because I didn't move the upper mount to bring them back to vertical, thats more work than I care to tackle.

*edit* You can see what I'm talking about in the CRV pic, the LCA bolts to the very end of the trailing arm, off center from the hub.

The big reason for using the wagon's trailing arm was cost and availability. Pick 'n Pull is cheaper and a lot closer to where I am than a honda/acura recycler. Another reason is because the wagon's trailing arms resemble the sol's stock trailing arms more than the CRV's, which means less work getting things to line up like the camber link.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Best of luck on your cage (nice tools too!). You post some pics up in the Del Sol Owners Club thread when you are done. Sols + roll cages are very rare indeed.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thanks, and now that you've pointed it out I will. I've noticed there is a serious lack of caged Sols. I've been looking around to see how others have done it and I've only found a few cars with cages and even then most of them have bolt-ins.

WhiteSol

IM'd you about an axle issue

granada sol

Well I am in the process of doing the same AWD thing to my del sol, however I was wanting to go over the top with horsepower and make the car into a drag/sleeper car. Have you researched the CRV drivetrain limitations? Everywhere I go, i hear that the tranny and/or the rear diff are notoriously weak... What is your opinion?

pandarex

iTrader: (1)

this is amazing, everyone doing this to a sol. why choose the del sol? preferance or is there an actual advantage?

granada sol

I wanted a honda, a 2 seater. personally I like the compact styling of the del sol. I could have gone with a rex, but I've always wanted a convertible. I could have bought an S2000, but I dont have the wallet! For me its preference

RallySol

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by frankin_henry &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well I am in the process of doing the same AWD thing to my del sol, however I was wanting to go over the top with horsepower and make the car into a drag/sleeper car. Have you researched the CRV drivetrain limitations? Everywhere I go, i hear that the tranny and/or the rear diff are notoriously weak... What is your opinion?</TD></TR></TABLE>

The rear diff is by far the weakest point of the system. If you're going to use this setup in a high grip/traction situation, I wouldn't do anything to the rear end unless you're ready to have a custom ring and pinion cut. If you're going to go that far, find and use the driveline and rear diff from the civic wagon. The diff in the CRV has an aluminum carrier. It's -all- aluminum. The diff in the wagon has a cast iron carrier and the front/rear driveshaft is three pieces where the second piece is a stout viscous coupling. The wagon's bits can handle a lot more power than the CRV's bits.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by pandarex &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">this is amazing, everyone doing this to a sol. why choose the del sol? preferance or is there an actual advantage?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Two big reasons I chose a del Sol for this project: I already owned one and it has the largest tunnel.


Ok, so I lied when I said the wagon's shifter cables were about the right length. One cable was the correct length, the other was about an inch too short. I was working on the shifter mechanism today, installing the bushings I left out, and took a few pics.



I ended up cutting the long adjuster nut in half and adding a section of square tube to make it long enough to reach the shifter mechanism.



Since it was too short, the anchor nut wasn't where it was supposed to be. I took a piece of fuel line, slit it, slipped it over the cable sleeve and clamped the expletive out of it with a hose clamp. I used a large washer as a backing to keep the clamped hose from slipping from the cable slot in the anchor plate.

inh

ugh i typed in a nice post and this board hates me so.. cliff notes version:

it seems that the wagon rear end is the way to go, as long as it doesnt cost more thanthe wagon to get a rear end gearset cut. doing this would let you match the rear end to a better final drive for the front. people swap crv FDs so i would assume you can swap another one in the crv...

also, you get much more stout, correct length, rear axels.

rallysol, how hard do you think it would be to get rear discs to work with the wagon rear drivetrain bits? Also, would you be interested in selling your wagon rear end?


Modified by inh at 5:46 PM 1/7/2007

crx loco

HI,
I read almost all post about this but I haven't found the answer.
I want to boost my awd wagon to 250 hp.
Does anyone know if the driveline take that on the dry.
If not! then how much can it take?

Thanks

granada sol

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RallySol &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The rear diff is by far the weakest point of the system. If you're going to use this setup in a high grip/traction situation, I wouldn't do anything to the rear end unless you're ready to have a custom ring and pinion cut. If you're going to go that far, find and use the driveline and rear diff from the civic wagon. The diff in the CRV has an aluminum carrier. It's -all- aluminum. The diff in the wagon has a cast iron carrier and the front/rear driveshaft is three pieces where the second piece is a stout viscous coupling. The wagon's bits can handle a lot more power than the CRV's bits.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

What do you think the horsepower limits are to each setup (crv diff / wagon diff) ?
Is it even feasible for either one to handle 500+ horsepower.
Other possibilities are to utlilze a s2000 rear end, but what about the crv tranny?
I don't want to put alot of time, effort, and money into something that will last 3 seconds after I turn the key...

WhiteSol

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RallySol &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Ok, so I lied when I said the wagon's shifter cables were about the right length. </TD></TR></TABLE>

After driving my civic around for a while I've noticed tht one cable is definetly too long as well. If I am not careful when shifting I get a nasty little grind. I will modifying my bracket as well, either that or getting the CRV cables to do the job correctly.

I was considering using a different final drive (not much uses a 4.562
FD) and a viscous LSD from something other than honda.

RallySol

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by crx loco &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">HI,
I read almost all post about this but I haven't found the answer.
I want to boost my awd wagon to 250 hp.
Does anyone know if the driveline take that on the dry.
If not! then how much can it take?

Thanks </TD></TR></TABLE>

The back half could take it, don't know about the transmission.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by frankin_henry &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

What do you think the horsepower limits are to each setup (crv diff / wagon diff) ?
Is it even feasible for either one to handle 500+ horsepower.
Other possibilities are to utlilze a s2000 rear end, but what about the crv tranny?
I don't want to put alot of time, effort, and money into something that will last 3 seconds after I turn the key... </TD></TR></TABLE>

The wagon's diff could probably take 500, definitly a lot more capable than the CRV. I think when you start talking about that much horsepower the transmission becomes the weak link. If your tranny goes before that power gets to the rear end, how can you know your rear end is strong enough?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by WhiteSol &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

After driving my civic around for a while I've noticed tht one cable is definetly too long as well. If I am not careful when shifting I get a nasty little grind. I will modifying my bracket as well, either that or getting the CRV cables to do the job correctly.

I was considering using a different final drive (not much uses a 4.562
FD) and a viscous LSD from something other than honda.</TD></TR></TABLE>

If you're grinding, I would venture to guess the cable doesn't have enough travel to fully engage the gear. When you set your cables up, did you start at the shifter and work out to the transmission or from the transmission to the shifter?

I've been considering swapping the final drive as well. I've been debating about picking up a complete GSR swap or just the engine. If I get the swap then I can gut the transmission for its output shaft and ring gear on the differential and transfer them over. Not sure about clearances though.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by inh &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">rallysol, how hard do you think it would be to get rear discs to work with the wagon rear drivetrain bits?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Funny you should ask that!



I spent a couple hours today working on changing the drums over to discs. The cast piston housing needs to be ground a fair ammount and the trailing arm needs to be trimmed a bit, but it'll be easy. The pic below was taken before I had removed enough material from the caliper to properly clear the arm. The hardest part would be milling up a new anchor plate for the caliper to bolt to, which I'm going to try and have a prototype made by the end of next week.



<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by inh &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Also, would you be interested in selling your wagon rear end?</TD></TR></TABLE>

What are you calling a "rear end"? Just the diff?